Year round TT power development / improvement

TTer

I think it was Ric who said that for some of his athletes he scheduled almost year round (I think 40+weeks of the year anyway) TT power interval sessions.

It makes absolute sense to try to raise maximal sustainable power as much as possible as this is the backbone of all good racers. Now it's the off-season I'm using the time to focus on training my TT power. I know about the dangers of becoming a 'Christmas star', flying by Christmas and worn out by April, but if I can keep up with the sessions for say 6 months then is a 40W power gain achievable?

What improvements have your athletes seen with this type of training Ric? Do you have any power numbers you could share? What about anyone else working on TT power over the period of many months? What have your results been?

Do you use strength work (e.g. 50-60rpm intervals) and short higher power VO2max intervals to break through a plateau in TT power?

Markster

TTer, I managed to increase my power by 10% (approx.30W) between October and March, with no intensity above 95% of TT power. I was also completely fresh when I started racing as I hadn't hammered myself with hard workouts. I don't know whether a similar program would help you, but it's proved to me how individual the whole training thing is. I think the most important thing (and the key to my improvement last year) was applying the correct amount of total training stress. For me this is considerably below the maximum level that I can handle. I only need to apply a very slight overload during each cycle (whether it's 2 days or 2 months) to gain the most benefit. Anything above this and I plateau or even go backwards. I've only found this level through years of getting it wrong. It's taken me a long time to realise that I can go faster than people by doing a lot less time and intensity, as long as it's the correct amount for me. It almost feels like your robbing people when you win!

ric_stern/RST

Originally posted by TTer, i responded with >>

I think it was Ric who said that for some of his athletes he scheduled almost year round (I think 40+weeks of the year anyway) TT power interval sessions.

>>it was me!


It makes absolute sense to try to raise maximal sustainable power as much as possible as this is the backbone of all good racers. Now it's the off-season I'm using the time to focus on training my TT power. I know about the dangers of becoming a 'Christmas star', flying by Christmas and worn out by April, but if I can keep up with the sessions for say 6 months then is a 40W power gain achievable?

>>so long as you have some recovery periods and limit (but not totally exclude) efforts ~MAP and greater you should be fine. Many racers, do X, track or move to another part of the world to race a greater period of time than the 'traditional' season

What improvements have your athletes seen with this type of training Ric? Do you have any power numbers you could share?

>>seen some big improvements with riders. often power gains of 10 to 20% plus at sustainable/TT effort and/or MAP.

>>however, it's important to understand that as your fitness increases, the magnitude of increases will become smaller (law of diminishing returns!)

What about anyone else working on TT power over the period of many months? What have your results been?

Do you use strength work (e.g. 50-60rpm intervals) and short higher power VO2max intervals to break through a plateau in TT power?

>>i don't low cadence sessions per se (these do nothing to increase strength, as velocity is still high and force isn't high enough), however, due to the terrain i train over (i.e., lumpy, hilly and small mountains) in Wales, there's plenty of times my power is at ~MAP and my cadence is low. I don't feel that the low cadence adds anything, i.e., it's training at that power that does, and i just ride at low cadence because i'm going up some steep grade at low velocity.

Ric

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TTer

Thanks for the reply Markster.

That's a good improvement in six months. What kind of level were you at before that improvement (what's was your PB for 10/25 before that?)? I'm a relatively new to TTing (just over a year racing TTs), but I gather from a previous message that you competed in the Nationals? I expect the same gains are possible for me since I'm still at the early stages of specialized training.

Also how many hours per week do you train? I seem to recall from the CTS coaching thread you were doing about 6 hours per week (pre-CTS coaching)? I'm experimenting with low hours myself now and getting off the habit of looking at weekly hours/mileage (I've stopped counting it so I don't fret about only doing 7hours per week and about 80-100miles (almost all of which is TT work though :-)).

Markster

Last September I posted a 19:53 10mTT and a 53min 25 (slower course). This year I improved the 25 time but only did a few low 20min 10m TT's. Power outputs were much higher this year, but on slower courses/windy days (the nice thing about racing with SRM's is that you know whether you're getting better independent of the course or weather conditions).
I've been racing 4 years (road races and TT's), and have done plenty of high mileage and high intensity training in the past (too much), so the improvement last winter felt pretty amazing. Like I said, I don't believe it was the specifics of the training, more the fact that I stayed fresh and healthy throughout by gradually increasing the loads without ever digging too deep.

During last Winter I did 2 * 1hr turbo sessions, and 3 * long (2-4hr) rides per week. Longest week was 14hrs, but the longest weeks were during a block where my power increased the least. As I moved into the season I did more TT power and above intervals and I peaked in about 5 weeks, then plateaued (unfortunately 5 weeks early, so I'd faded a bit by my goal events).

I joined CTS to help time my peak, and because I'd had so much success with 'aerobic' training. Unfortunately they decided to load me with way too much intensity and volume and I went back into my old overtrained state and lost over 10% of my power.

So for next season my plan is to do more 'Tempo' intensity work, less endurance work and a reduced amount of intense training, timed closer to my objectives.

I have a suspicion, probably completely unscientific, that may account for some of this: Part of the trouble with CTS was that I was able to put out a load of power during the field test, but when they used this data to assign zones the endurance zones where way, way too high. They said that it was due to an underdeveloped aerobic system relative to the anaerobic system, so they loaded me up with tonnes of endurance miles at too high an intensity.
- Maybe I am able to sustain a higher lactate le

Markster

....- Maybe I am able to sustain a higher lactate level than the norm during TT's, which results in high intensity (TT power +) intervals doing me more damage than for other people, and a need to complete LT endurance rides at a lower power than normal compared to TT power.

ric_stern/RST

Everyone (mostly) tends to TT at the approximately same % of MAP, irrespective of absolute fitness.

I don't know how CTS calculate their training levels, so i'm not sure how they compare to the other two systems that i'm aware of (mine and andy coggans).

Ric

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Markster

CTS ask you to do 2 * 3 mile max efforts with (I think) 8mins recovery inbetween. The average of these efforts is your 'TT effort' which should equate roughly to the level you can TT at for less than an hour. Sure doesn't for me! They then prescribe what they call Steady State training at 90% of this value (supposed to be below TT power), Tempo at 80%, and endurance at 70%.

- a funny thing is that they also prescribe Climbing repeats at 100% of this value, and they aren't supposed to be maximal efforts. So my coach was prescribing 3 * 10min climbs at 100% of the maximal effort that I could hold in a 2 * 8min test, with the same recovery times! Anyone else see a problem with that?
(I think I'm right with the details as they are confirmed in Carmichaels 'Ultimate Ride' book)

ric_stern/RST

Are these % of power or HR?

Ric

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Markster

Sorry, % of power

m.

Markster

p.s. their HR zones (based on the test) worked out well, but the coach insisted I should use the power zones.

ric_stern/RST

with those power zones on my estimated 8-min power data (using a regression equation and data from 4km, 16.1km and 40.2km TT) they come out at higher powers than my training zones. however, it depends how long you'd ride at the intensities for, as to how difficult they are. for e.g., the 90% effort is roughly the power that i do my 4min intervals at.

Ric

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TTer

CTS prescribes SS (steady state) as 8-15minute intervals at that 90% power level!!

CR (climbing repeats) are done at 100%, and are 8-12minutes in my experience.

Tempo, 80%, is done for 20-50minutes. Most Tempo sessions were 40 or 50minutes for me.

Endurance varied, 1hr15 to 4hrs (for 1hour TTing). My coach put a 'cap' on the highest power level rather than prescribe an intensity.

ric_stern/RST

looking at the powers again, using my own estimated 8-min power, they're both possible. for instance the 90% effort is about the power i can sustain for a 16km TT, so 8 to 15 -mins at this level is doable. the tempo effort is quite a bit (about 6%) below my 40kmTT power.

however, the endurance is about 30% higher than the *average* power i can maintain for my 2 to 3 hr endurance sessions.

Markster, would it be okay if you posted your *actual* zones? if it's not, no problem.

on the other hand 3*10-mins at 100% of 8-min TT power would be (almost) impossible.

ric

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