Hydration question

D'ohBoy

Hi!

On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
weak and bad. Bonky, perhaps? No. Eating fairly well...prolly about
a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
well, or so I thought.

Long story short, I end up walking one particularly nasty hill and
then coasting into a rest stop. Get there and still feel bad. Drink
about a half a water bottle waiting for the sag (I really feel crappy
at this point). Luckily, the sag wagon had a buncha garbage bags in
it cuz I ejected about a quart of water into one.

After I cleared all the water in my gut, I felt MUCH better. It's
almost as if my body stopped accepting water.

I don't think I was over-hydrating. I was drinking approximately a 28
oz bottle (one of those big ones) every 25 miles. As far as I know,
and as my riding buddy says, I am *ALWAYS* under-hydrated. It was
sunny and warm, around 80F, but not humid. Just can't figure out
what happened.

My bottles have been cleaned with bleach recently. I don't think I
ate or drank anything anyone else did not eat.

TIA

D'ohBoy

P.S.: I believe I was sufficiently trained for this and my pace was
well within the pace I rode when I finished this ride last year.

Tom Kunich

"D'ohBoy" <petengail@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:151018fd-8d0d-4b54-9a16-ba0580830e0c@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Long story short, I end up walking one particularly nasty hill and
> then coasting into a rest stop. Get there and still feel bad. Drink
> about a half a water bottle waiting for the sag (I really feel crappy
> at this point). Luckily, the sag wagon had a buncha garbage bags in
> it cuz I ejected about a quart of water into one.
>
> After I cleared all the water in my gut, I felt MUCH better. It's
> almost as if my body stopped accepting water.

You were riding harder than your body could handle. Instead of pulling
liquids out of your stomach all of your blood supply was being used in your
legs to lungs. That was what is more commonly known as exhaustion.

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

On Jun 15, 3:10*pm, "D'ohBoy" <peteng...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
> weak and bad. *Bonky, perhaps? *No. *Eating fairly well...prolly about
> a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
> well, or so I thought.
>
> Long story short, I end up walking one particularly nasty hill and
> then coasting into a rest stop. *Get there and still feel bad. *Drink
> about a half a water bottle waiting for the sag (I really feel crappy
> at this point). *Luckily, the sag wagon had a buncha garbage bags in
> it cuz I ejected about a quart of water into one.
>
> After I cleared all the water in my gut, I felt MUCH better. *It's
> almost as if my body stopped accepting water.
>
> I don't think I was over-hydrating. *I was drinking approximately a 28
> oz bottle (one of those big ones) every 25 miles. *As far as I know,
> and as my riding buddy says, I am *ALWAYS* under-hydrated. *It was
> sunny and warm, around 80F, but not humid. * Just can't figure out
> what happened.
>
> My bottles have been cleaned with bleach recently. *I don't think I
> ate or drank anything anyone else did not eat.
>
> TIA
>
> D'ohBoy
>
> P.S.: I believe I was sufficiently trained for this and my pace was
> well within the pace I rode when I finished this ride last year.

How far did you get, and when you say one big bottle per 25mi, what
does that mean in terms of bottles per hour?

What and how much did you eat and drink before the ride? What was the
urination situation during the ride?

I think you over did it on the water.

Joseph

Tim McNamara

In article
<151018fd-8d0d-4b54-9a16-ba0580830e0c@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
"D'ohBoy" <petengail@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I don't think I was over-hydrating. I was drinking approximately a
> 28 oz bottle (one of those big ones) every 25 miles. As far as I
> know, and as my riding buddy says, I am *ALWAYS* under-hydrated. It
> was sunny and warm, around 80F, but not humid. Just can't figure
> out what happened.

Hmm, assuming a rolling pace of 18 mph that's about 20 oz of water per
hour. The recommended fluid intake for marathoners is 12 ounces of
water per hour (see link below). IMHO you were probably overhydrating
and maybe became hyonatremic (low sodium) and/or hypokalemic (low
potassium). That will make you feel wonky. If your feet swelled at
all, then that's pretty much the clincher.

<http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/hydrationandfluid/a/Hyponatremia.htm>

How do you know that you are "always underhydrated?" Your body is very
good at preventing itself from developing dehydration- you keep sweating
for cooling but your kidneys reduce output temporarily. 80F is just a
warm day, not a hot day, and you should not have been sweating profusely
(except on climbs, of course, when you're going too slow to get much
evaporation as well as working hard). You've have probably been better
off eating a banana and something salty rather than drinking yet more
water.

<http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/hyponatremia1.html>

The research on the woeful effects of under-hydration on athletic
performance has been pretty much exclusively done at the behest of
Gatorade and similar companies. Any surprise about the conclusions they
reach?

By comparison, I did a windy, flattish three hour ride yesterday and
drank about 30 ounces of water and felt fine. CamelBak (Hydrate Or
Die!) would probably scream that I was in danger of crumbling into my
constituent minerals from dehydration.

daveornee

Electrolyte imbalance happened in a similar situation to me once... when I was "suffiociently" hydrated, but I finished the ride only to not feel like wanting any of the wonderful food available at ride's end.
25 years ago I lunched at a salad bar to find myself feeling lousy 90 miles later,,,... I attributed that time to something I ate.
As Tim stated, you would get some ideas from the color and quantity of urine output as you went.

Lou Holtman

D'ohBoy wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
> weak and bad. Bonky, perhaps? No. Eating fairly well...prolly about
> a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
> well, or so I thought.
>
> Long story short, I end up walking one particularly nasty hill and
> then coasting into a rest stop. Get there and still feel bad. Drink
> about a half a water bottle waiting for the sag (I really feel crappy
> at this point). Luckily, the sag wagon had a buncha garbage bags in
> it cuz I ejected about a quart of water into one.


200k miles? What is the challenge of that? I stopped races over 200 km a
long time ago to avoid those stupid drink and eating problems/hassles. I
rather go faster on a shorter distance with no food and drink issues
than those boring long distances rides where you always walk on
eggshells food and drinkwise.

Lou

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

On Jun 15, 7:15*pm, Lou Holtman <lholditn...@planet.nl> wrote:
> D'ohBoy wrote:
> > Hi!
>
> > On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
> > weak and bad. *Bonky, perhaps? *No. *Eating fairly well...prolly about
> > a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
> > well, or so I thought.
>
> > Long story short, I end up walking one particularly nasty hill and
> > then coasting into a rest stop. *Get there and still feel bad. *Drink
> > about a half a water bottle waiting for the sag (I really feel crappy
> > at this point). *Luckily, the sag wagon had a buncha garbage bags in
> > it cuz I ejected about a quart of water into one.
>
> 200k miles? What is the challenge of that? I stopped races over 200 km a
> long time ago to avoid those stupid drink and eating problems/hassles. I
> rather go faster on a shorter distance with no food and drink issues
> than those boring long distances rides where you always walk on
> eggshells food and drinkwise.
>
> Lou

You call 200km a long ride? ;-)

Joseph

RicodJour

On Jun 15, 5:08 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 7:15 pm, Lou Holtman <lholditn...@planet.nl> wrote:
>
>
>
> > D'ohBoy wrote:
> > > Hi!
>
> > > On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
> > > weak and bad. Bonky, perhaps? No. Eating fairly well...prolly about
> > > a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
> > > well, or so I thought.
>
> > > Long story short, I end up walking one particularly nasty hill and
> > > then coasting into a rest stop. Get there and still feel bad. Drink
> > > about a half a water bottle waiting for the sag (I really feel crappy
> > > at this point). Luckily, the sag wagon had a buncha garbage bags in
> > > it cuz I ejected about a quart of water into one.
>
> > 200k miles? What is the challenge of that? I stopped races over 200 km a
> > long time ago to avoid those stupid drink and eating problems/hassles. I
> > rather go faster on a shorter distance with no food and drink issues
> > than those boring long distances rides where you always walk on
> > eggshells food and drinkwise.
>
> > Lou
>
> You call 200km a long ride? ;-)

Uh oh. Here we go!

R

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

On Jun 15, 11:19*pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 5:08 pm, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
>
>
>
> <joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 15, 7:15 pm, Lou Holtman <lholditn...@planet.nl> wrote:
>
> > > D'ohBoy wrote:
> > > > Hi!
>
> > > > On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
> > > > weak and bad. *Bonky, perhaps? *No. *Eating fairly well...prolly about
> > > > a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
> > > > well, or so I thought.
>
> > > > Long story short, I end up walking one particularly nasty hill and
> > > > then coasting into a rest stop. *Get there and still feel bad. *Drink
> > > > about a half a water bottle waiting for the sag (I really feel crappy
> > > > at this point). *Luckily, the sag wagon had a buncha garbage bags in
> > > > it cuz I ejected about a quart of water into one.
>
> > > 200k miles? What is the challenge of that? I stopped races over 200 kma
> > > long time ago to avoid those stupid drink and eating problems/hassles.I
> > > rather go faster on a shorter distance with no food and drink issues
> > > than those boring long distances rides where you always walk on
> > > eggshells food and drinkwise.
>
> > > Lou
>
> > You call 200km a long ride? ;-)
>
> Uh oh. *Here we go! *
>
> R

Actually as a serious response to the "why bother with long rides/
races" vs short intense races, I feel marginally qualified to offer an
opinion on both. I like both, and see the appeal in both.

The problem with short intense races, is you get dropped if you aren't
fast enough, and riding by yourself when everyone else is mixing it up
in a sprint isn't that much fun. Rolling up to the finish asking who
won the sprint isn't very exciting. But when you are fast enough, and
you can be part of the action, it is amazing fun.

The problem with long races is they are hard and they hurt. But
usually they are done as more of a personal challenge, so not
finishing with the lead group isn't such a let down as in a short
race. Perhaps because of the potential for pain and the challenge, a
well executed long ride is immensely satisfying.

My two most recent races were 10km and 642km respectively. Quite
different animals, yet I see no reason the favor one over the other.

Joseph

TBerk

On Jun 15, 10:15*am, Lou Holtman <lholditn...@planet.nl> wrote:

>
> 200k miles? What is the challenge of that?


Yeah! Two Hundred Thousand Miles?, no problem!


TBerk
the only thing I hate is having to change my O2 bottles so often, and
wiping the condensation off of the helmet's faceplate....

D'ohBoy

On Jun 15, 8:46 am, "joseph.santanie...@gmail.com"
<joseph.santanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 15, 3:10 pm, "D'ohBoy" <peteng...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi!
>
> > On a 200k challenge ride (12,000 vert) yesterday and started to feel
> > weak and bad. Bonky, perhaps? No. Eating fairly well...prolly about
> > a couple hundred calories every hour and a half or so... hydrating
> > well, or so I thought.
>
> > Long story short, I end up walking one particularly nasty hill and
> > then coasting into a rest stop. Get there and still feel bad. Drink
> > about a half a water bottle waiting for the sag (I really feel crappy
> > at this point). Luckily, the sag wagon had a buncha garbage bags in
> > it cuz I ejected about a quart of water into one.
>
> > After I cleared all the water in my gut, I felt MUCH better. It's
> > almost as if my body stopped accepting water.
>
> > I don't think I was over-hydrating. I was drinking approximately a 28
> > oz bottle (one of those big ones) every 25 miles. As far as I know,
> > and as my riding buddy says, I am *ALWAYS* under-hydrated. It was
> > sunny and warm, around 80F, but not humid. Just can't figure out
> > what happened.
>
> > My bottles have been cleaned with bleach recently. I don't think I
> > ate or drank anything anyone else did not eat.
>
> > TIA
>
> > D'ohBoy
>
> > P.S.: I believe I was sufficiently trained for this and my pace was
> > well within the pace I rode when I finished this ride last year.
>
> How far did you get, and when you say one big bottle per 25mi, what
> does that mean in terms of bottles per hour?
>
> What and how much did you eat and drink before the ride? What was the
> urination situation during the ride?
>
> I think you over did it on the water.
>
> Joseph

I was averaging around 14. In my defense, this really is a hilly
ride. And I am a big boy (overweight but not horribly).

So I was doing about 12 oz per hour. Had a coupla granola bars before
the ride, a gu. Urine was a light yellow.

Upon further reflection, I think that this was a mild case of heat
stroke. As I mentioned above, I have a higher volume to area ratio
than most (5'10, 200 lbs).

This has happened to me with varying severity on my first hot/long
rides of the year for a coupla years now. Guess I need to learn to
listen to my body better. I heard once a saying about repeating the
past or something.....

D'ohBoy

John Forrest Tomlinson

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:32:26 -0700 (PDT), "D'ohBoy"
<petengail@yahoo.com> wrote:

>So I was doing about 12 oz per hour.
(snips)
>, 200 lbs).

That's not a lot of liquid in warm weather considering your size. For
me, at moderate intensity in moderately warm weather I try for a
minimum of 20oz per hour and I'm 40 lbs less.

I think you could drink more liquid and keep the liquid down if it had
salt in it.

andresmuro@aol.com

On Jun 16, 6:35*am, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:32:26 -0700 (PDT), "D'ohBoy"
>
>
>
> <peteng...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >So I was doing about 12 oz per hour.
> (snips)
> >, 200 lbs).
>
> That's not a lot of liquid in warm weather considering your size. For
> me, at moderate intensity in moderately warm weather I try for a
> minimum of 20oz per hour and I'm 40 lbs less.
>
> I think you could drink more liquid and keep the liquid down if it had
> salt in it.

It doesn't sound like a liquid problem to me. It sounds more like he
was exhausted, as Tom suggested. After several hours of riding, even
with proper hydration and nutrition, the body starts getting very
tired. If you are not very fit and used to this sort of rides getting
sick after several hours on the saddle is not uncommon. Pushing the
body to the limit of an effort can make you sick and nauseated.

For some reason, it seems that when I get a little nauseated, the best
thing to do is to ride through it. Stopping and letting my heart rate
drop too much will make me feel worse. When I am ridding uphills with
groups, I always get dropped, since I am a little chunky. In the
effort to keep up, I always ride to the point where i sart to get
sick. If I slow down too much, I will start dry heaving. I need to
force myself not too lower my effort too much.

D'ohBoy

On Jun 16, 8:54 am, "andresm...@aol.com" <andresm...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jun 16, 6:35 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetrem...@jt10000.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:32:26 -0700 (PDT), "D'ohBoy"
>
> > <peteng...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >So I was doing about 12 oz per hour.
> > (snips)
> > >, 200 lbs).
>
> > That's not a lot of liquid in warm weather considering your size. For
> > me, at moderate intensity in moderately warm weather I try for a
> > minimum of 20oz per hour and I'm 40 lbs less.
>
> > I think you could drink more liquid and keep the liquid down if it had
> > salt in it.
>
> It doesn't sound like a liquid problem to me. It sounds more like he
> was exhausted, as Tom suggested. After several hours of riding, even
> with proper hydration and nutrition, the body starts getting very
> tired. If you are not very fit and used to this sort of rides getting
> sick after several hours on the saddle is not uncommon. Pushing the
> body to the limit of an effort can make you sick and nauseated.
>
> For some reason, it seems that when I get a little nauseated, the best
> thing to do is to ride through it. Stopping and letting my heart rate
> drop too much will make me feel worse. When I am ridding uphills with
> groups, I always get dropped, since I am a little chunky. In the
> effort to keep up, I always ride to the point where i sart to get
> sick. If I slow down too much, I will start dry heaving. I need to
> force myself not too lower my effort too much.

I do ~150 miles per week in similarly hilly terrain to the ride in
question and not JRA. I have ridden a number of rides (3-4)
approaching this difficulty already this year and believe that I was
sufficiently prepared. I have 1400 road miles prior to the ride and
4x/week 1 - 2 hour trainer sessions complete with intervals and heart
rate monitoring to insure the training value in the Jan - March time
period.

Interesting with the 'push thru it' strategem. I don't think that
would have been possible in this case.

D'ohBoy