Why Is the Supply of IDIOT Mountain Bikers ENDLESS???

Mike Vandeman

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From: "Owen Lewis" <odlinski@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Your Fascinating Take on the Psychology of Mountain
Biking (2000)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 22:55:45 +0100
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' "All the emails I have received from you have been closed minded. "
You didn't say it was your opinion, you stated it as if it were a
FACT. That's called a "lie". '

A lie, you say?

So presumably that makes all the opinions that you have stated as fact
in your work lies, does it? Those similar to your opinion that
mountain biking is "selfish and destructive"?

I suppose that there is a slight difference between the opinion that I
expressed as fact, I will admit, and yours is that mine was based upon
logical reasoning (that your tendency to do the same is a trait of a
closed minded person like yourself - an assumption that I do not
really claim I can make but since we are speaking under your opinion
that generalisations based on previous observations are valid, I
will).

Of course, as I requested for you to break your habit of not giving
any real evidence with your points, I will refer back to that of mine
which I provided with my first email. I'm sorry that the debate has
not swung in the direction which you have intended but I like to keep
my writing relevant.

"The first thing one observes about mountain bikers is that they lie
continually"

Opinion? Yes.
Expressed as such? No.
By your intriguing definition, a lie? Yes.

I would personally not be as short-sighted as to call this a total
lie; one may very well observe this lying but it rather depend on the
person doing the observing and the riders in question. It is
therefore, without argument, opinion. Of course, you have provided me
with a definition of a lie and I would hate to be as rude as not to
use it (you are a highly educated man) and so a lie this quote
remains.

"none of them ever admit to lying"

Opinion? Yes (based on observation, maybe, but not fact).
Expressed as such? No.
By your intriguing definition, a lie? Yes.

Again, despite it's obvious flaw as a statement (you can never meet
all mountain bikers to see whether they do - "all those which I have
observed" would have been a far less ridiculous assumption) I would
not be so harsh as to describe it as a lie. When I say "it's obvious
flaw", I am being kind to use the singular in that it would be cruel
of me to point out that admitting to lying would defy the point of
lying in the first place. As you are aware, none of us can claim not
to have lied in the past; it is human nature. I simply feel that
mountain bikers, as an entity, should not be said to do it any more
than others. You are, of course, welcome to give evidence (a personal
anecdote does not constitute this) to show that they do. I expect that
I will be receiving a police record of some kind, detailing an
incident wherein a mountain biker has been proved to be lying, and I
wish to make it clear that such an incident can be found for almost
any kind of person - thousands, in fact.

"they act exactly like the drug addicts that I knew..."

Opinion? Yes.
Expressed as such? No
By your intriguing definition, a lie? Yes.

Once more, the concision in your statement has led to it becoming less
valid than it could have been. The use of the word "exactly" creates
such an overwhelming exaggeration (something not necessary other than
when stating an opinion) that I don't feel I should need to explain
how this statement cannot be valid when speaking of human behaviour to
a doctor of psychology. I cannot see how you can so boldly announce to
the world that all mountain biker's act EXACTLY like drug addicts
without the realisation of how misinformed you sound to the public:
Physical reaction to deprivation? Not that I can see.

So that last objection was a little pedantic, but it still fits within
your lovely little definition of a lie. May I suggest that when you
split my email into sections to "disprove" [giggles to himself]
everything I have to say, you pay more attention to each point I make?
I have put an asterisk at the end of each for your benefit.

Awaiting your reply with the sort of anticipation that one would not
usually admit to have, if their opponent weren't so amusing to read
from when believing in they're own higher intellect,

Owen Lewis.




From: Mike Vandeman
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 8:55 PM
To: Owen Lewis
Subject: Re: Your Fascinating Take on the Psychology of Mountain
Biking (2000)


At 07:04 AM 5/25/2008, you wrote:

Ok, so the grammar thing, as you have proved, is not important. As I
say, it is more of a question of whether you are from Britain or the
U.S.A. anyway. Don't let's distract ourselves from the reason I
emailed you.

As for the more relevant of our discussions, I cannot see the basis
for your conclusion that I am a dishonest person. What you have done
excellently for me, is proved that you are closed minded by stating
your opinion (that I am dishonest) as if it where a fact without
giving either any evidence or any reason for this conclusion.

Here is one of your lies: "All the emails I have received from you
have been closed minded. " You didn't say it was your opinion, you
stated it as if it were a FACT. That's called a "lie".


One which, if you were, as claimed, open minded, you would wait for
me to lie before reaching (something which a psychologist really
should be doing). I hope that in the next email you send me, you can
give some evidence for my "dishonesty" and any other assumptions you
care to make about my person (therein lies, for me, at least, the
difference between an argument and a debate - the latter of which I
would much rather have with you).

"One just got arrested in Marin County, CA FOR THE SECOND
TIME!!!!! See what I mean. It isn't just a few people. It is THOUSANDS
of mountain bikers"

I loved that one; you gave an example of ONE incidence (well, two
incidences involving ONE idiot), giving it as the reason that the
problem of the attitude of mountain bikers (one which I have observed,
of course, but don't pretend that it is without exception - it is an
anomaly, in my own experience) is all inclusive. I do love the way you
present your opinion.

That is just an example. Did you want me to present all thousands of
examples?


In answer to your admittedly rhetorical question "Do I have to teach
you EVERYTHING?", no, you don't. I have made clear that I have not
lied to you and that your impression of me as dishonest is without
basis and I would therefore invite you to teach it to yourself.

See above. My theory of why mountain bikers are all dishonest is that
it is IMPOSSIBLE to defend a selfish, destructive sport like mountain
biking WITHOUT lying.


Hope to hear from you soon,

Owen.

From: Mike Vandeman
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 6:24 AM
To: Owen Lewis
Subject: Re: Your Fascinating Take on the Psychology of Mountain
Biking (2000)

At 02:55 PM 5/24/2008, you wrote:

I would rather like for you to explain exactly how you would justify
the use of the plural after "none" because it is commonly recognised
that the singular is preferable wherever possible (I don't see that it
isn't possible). I have intention of either laughing at you a little
more, or genuinely being wrong. I will, of course be informing you as
to which of these emotions I experience.

"None of the men are over 50." There are potentially more than one.
Webster says it can be either singular or plural. It depends on the
intention of the writer. See a more detailed grammar.


Since it would seem we have begun quoting each other's writing rather
a lot:

"Au contraire, it is obvious.

Apparently you have no intention of learning anything. Do your
homework, and read my website, before making such a fool of yourself.
Then make a fool of yourself."

This does not make me dishonest; it makes me closed-minded. How did
you get a PhD in psychology without any apparent knowledge of the
definition of honesty?

Dishonesty has to do with LYING. If you lie, you should expect to be
called "dishonest". Do I have to teach you EVERYTHING?


"Generalizations are used when one observes (as I have) that mountain
bikers all lie (i.e., all the ones I have ever met). They are thus
perfectly valid."

You've seen it and therefore it is true.

THOUSANDS of examples. If I were collecting data for a scientific
study, it would be considered proven.


Got it. I now know what a generalisation is. Allow me to make one
based on the definition which you just provided me. All the emails I
have received from you have been closed minded. I can therefore deduce
(validly, as you say) that you are closed-minded. I don't think that
you can argue with that without seriously contradicting yourself.
However, if my generalisation about you is correct, you will.

Your generalization would be valid, if I were really closed-minded.
However, you call me "closed-minded" only because I disagree with you.
I'm actually very open-minded. That's why I listen to mountain bikers.
But I report honestly what I see.


Without any evidence (I don't feel I should need any but since I saw
your article, I really wish I had some), I have never risked arrest
through illegal riding. Of course, since you have already proved
convincingly that I am a liar though that statement is total rubbish.

You may be the only mountain biker in the world who is honest, but
really, I have never seen one obey the law consistently. They ride on
the edge of the trail, widening it. They ride off-trail. They speed.
They ride trails closed to bikes. They build their own trails secretly
and illegally. One just got arrested in Marin County, CA FOR THE
SECOND TIME!!!!! See what I mean. It isn't just a few people. It is
THOUSANDS of mountain bikers, all over the world. They all have an
entitlement mentality that makes them think it's okay to disregard the
law.


Finally, I haven't really got time to read your website but with
regard to the rest of that instruction, I would like to describe the
difference between you and me: I, according to you, have made a fool
out of myself in private whereas it seems to me, and many others, I
gather, that you have made a fool of yourself all over the internet.

I don't make a fool of myself because I do my homework and stick to
the truth. I don't have to lie, because the truth is on my side! You
"don't have time" to learn the facts, before opening your mouth. THAT
is a FOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Eagerly awaiting your reply,

Owen.



From: Mike Vandeman
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 9:15 PM
To: Owen Lewis
Subject: Re: Your Fascinating Take on the Psychology of Mountain
Biking (2000)

At 11:57 AM 5/24/2008, you wrote:

As far as our disagreement over the correct use of the word "none" is
concerned, although where some feeling of plurality must be preserved
in the sentence, the plural verb may be used "if you're talking about
the aged and the unemployed and the sick, none of these are going to
be affected" - R. Muldoon ("the aged" being plural on its own etc.)
your use of it requires no preserved plurality and really should have
been the singular. However, I do feel I was a little unkind to have
picked you up on such a trivial matter and I expect that the plural
form has become far more widely used in the states than here (I write
from Britain).

Your grasp of grammar is as bad as every other subject.
\

Anyway, grammar aside, I notice that you have not responded to the
question around which my first email was based (regarding the
generalisations); if you would care to, I would appreciate it.

Generalizations are used when one observes (as I have) that mountain
bikers all lie (i.e., all the ones I have ever met). They are thus
perfectly valid.


I would also enquire as to how you came to the conclusion that
mountain biking risks personal relationships.

Lots of time spent away from the family, doing nothing useful.


Also, against your apparent personal wish, not all mountain biking is
illegal so not all mountain bikers risk arrest in doing it. I am,
therefore, inclined, until you can convince me otherwise, to suggest
that your choice of the word "exactly" was a misguided one.

Mountain bikers ALWAYS, in my experience, ride illegally. It comes
from their misguided "entitlement mentality".


Finally, I ask what leads you to believe that I, personally, am
dishonest or in any way unable to be honest. Of course, my mind jumps
back to the generalisations. It seems to be a subject which you are
not keen to discuss.

Au contraire, it is obvious.

Apparently you have no intention of learning anything. Do your
homework, and read my website, before making such a fool of yourself.
Then make a fool of yourself.


Owen.

P.S. No, I don't know who R. Muldoon is. That quote was taken from
Fowler's Modern English Usage. If I had not already shown my wish to
discontinue my initial pedantry, I would recommend that you buy a
copy.

From: Mike Vandeman
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 5:41 PM
To: Owen Lewis
Subject: Re: Your Fascinating Take on the Psychology of Mountain
Biking (2000)

At 02:56 AM 5/24/2008, you wrote:

Dear Dr. Vandeman,

I email simply to ask where psychologists such as yourself lie on the
topic of ridiculous generalisations such as "...they lie continually",
Something I observe every day.


"none of them ever admit..." (which, by the way, should be "admits"
because the singular form of a verb is expected after "none" in good
English)

None is plural in this case. DUH!


or "they act exactly like the drug addicts..." (that particular link
interested me hugely; I'd love for you to expand on it)

Many mountain bikers admit to being "addicted" to it. They also
resemble drug addicts in risking everything important to them (health,
family relations, gettin arrested, etc.) in order to participate in
it.


I am very keen to receive a reply because it is a question that has
frequently appeared in my head since reading your gripping and
relevant document.

Yours sincerely,
Owen Lewis.

P.S. I cannot convey the temptation that I experienced when writing
this to replace the first "K" in the subject of this email with an
"L".

Try being honest for once. Just once. If you haven't forgotten how.

--

I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


--

I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


--

I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande



--


I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)


Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande