Re: Red lights jumping - interesting survey

Conor

In article <b7f23e01-f861-49aa-9095-aa441cf4e800
@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Squashme says...

> > The figures look even worse if you are to take them as a percentage of
> > road user by type of vehicle. I'd say it would make cyclists at least a
> > hundred times worse.
>
> You'd SAY it, would you? But what's that worth? Have you some
> statistics, or just gut feelings?

30,000,000 registered cars in the UK. How many bicycles? It isn't
anywhere near that figure.

So as a percentage of the road user type, an equal or higher actual
number than a group with a larger number of members shows them to be
far worse.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Squashme

On 15 May, 14:34, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <b7f23e01-f861-49aa-9095-aa441cf4e800
> @y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,Squashmesays...
>
> > > The figures look even worse if you are to take them as a percentage of
> > > road user by type of vehicle. I'd say it would make cyclists at least a
> > > hundred times worse.
>
> > You'd SAY it, would you? But what's that worth? Have you some
> > statistics, or just gut feelings?
>
> 30,000,000 registered cars in the UK. How many bicycles? It isn't
> anywhere near that figure.
>
> So as a percentage of the road user type, an equal or higher actual
> number than a group with a larger number of members shows them to be
> far worse.
>

So just a modified gut feeling then. I'm sure that you are right that,
in this, cyclists are worse proportionately than motorists. More
cyclists infringe this rule, than motorists do, probably because they
can more easily get away with it. But, surely, it is almost always a
victimless crime. rather like speeding, I guess.

Brimstone

Squashme wrote:
> On 15 May, 14:34, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <b7f23e01-f861-49aa-9095-aa441cf4e800
>> @y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,Squashmesays...
>>
>>>> The figures look even worse if you are to take them as a
>>>> percentage of road user by type of vehicle. I'd say it would make
>>>> cyclists at least a hundred times worse.
>>
>>> You'd SAY it, would you? But what's that worth? Have you some
>>> statistics, or just gut feelings?
>>
>> 30,000,000 registered cars in the UK. How many bicycles? It isn't
>> anywhere near that figure.
>>
>> So as a percentage of the road user type, an equal or higher actual
>> number than a group with a larger number of members shows them to be
>> far worse.
>>
>
> So just a modified gut feeling then. I'm sure that you are right that,
> in this, cyclists are worse proportionately than motorists. More
> cyclists infringe this rule, than motorists do, probably because they
> can more easily get away with it. But, surely, it is almost always a
> victimless crime. rather like speeding, I guess.

How can it be a victimless crime when a cyclist jumps a red light, obstructs
the path of another vehicle and causes a collision?

Squashme

On 15 May, 19:55, "Brimstone" <brimstone520-n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Squashmewrote:
> > On 15 May, 14:34, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> In article <b7f23e01-f861-49aa-9095-aa441cf4e800
> >> @y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,Squashmesays...
>
> >>>> The figures look even worse if you are to take them as a
> >>>> percentage of road user by type of vehicle. I'd say it would make
> >>>> cyclists at least a hundred times worse.
>
> >>> You'd SAY it, would you? But what's that worth? Have you some
> >>> statistics, or just gut feelings?
>
> >> 30,000,000 registered cars in the UK. How many bicycles? It isn't
> >> anywhere near that figure.
>
> >> So as a percentage of the road user type, an equal or higher actual
> >> number than a group with a larger number of members shows them to be
> >> far worse.
>
> > So just a modified gut feeling then. I'm sure that you are right that,
> > in this, cyclists are worse proportionately than motorists. More
> > cyclists infringe this rule, than motorists do, probably because they
> > can more easily get away with it. But, surely, it is almost always a
> > victimless crime. rather like speeding, I guess.
>
> How can it be a victimless crime when a cyclist jumps a red light, obstructs
> the path of another vehicle and causes a collision?

As I said "Almost always". Like exceeding the speed limit.

Daniel Barlow

"Brimstone" <brimstone520-ng02@yahoo.co.uk> writes:

> How can it be a victimless crime when a cyclist jumps a red light, obstructs
> the path of another vehicle and causes a collision?

Interesting, that wasn't mentioned in the report I read. How many
times did that happen in the aforementioned three hours at Piccadilly
Circus, then?


-dan

Squashme

On 15 May, 20:08, Daniel Barlow <d...@telent.net> wrote:
> "Brimstone" <brimstone520-n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
> > How can it be a victimless crime when a cyclist jumps a red light, obstructs
> > the path of another vehicle and causes a collision?
>
> Interesting, that wasn't mentioned in the report I read. How many
> times did that happen in the aforementioned three hours at Piccadilly
> Circus, then?
>
> -dan

Looks like it was one of those damned hypothetical cyclists. They are
the worst by far. The things they can get up to!.

Brimstone

Daniel Barlow wrote:
> "Brimstone" <brimstone520-ng02@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
>> How can it be a victimless crime when a cyclist jumps a red light,
>> obstructs the path of another vehicle and causes a collision?
>
> Interesting, that wasn't mentioned in the report I read. How many
> times did that happen in the aforementioned three hours at Piccadilly
> Circus, then?
>
Was there any mention of the consequences of those vehicles passing the red
light, or was the report limited to the fact of them doing it?

Squashme

On 15 May, 21:32, "Brimstone" <brimstone520-n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Daniel Barlow wrote:
> > "Brimstone" <brimstone520-n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
> >> How can it be a victimless crime when a cyclist jumps a red light,
> >> obstructs the path of another vehicle and causes a collision?
>
> > Interesting, that wasn't mentioned in the report I read. How many
> > times did that happen in the aforementioned three hours at Piccadilly
> > Circus, then?
>
> Was there any mention of the consequences of those vehicles passing the red
> light, or was the report limited to the fact of them doing it?


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...gade/article.do

Suck it and see.

Conor

In article <92895881-8d44-49cb-895f-e4e59ff0d216
@b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, Squashme says...

> So just a modified gut feeling then. I'm sure that you are right that,
> in this, cyclists are worse proportionately than motorists. More
> cyclists infringe this rule, than motorists do, probably because they
> can more easily get away with it. But, surely, it is almost always a
> victimless crime. rather like speeding, I guess.
>
Ask the cyclist who got twatted by a car the other month and died, a
subject of another Doug rant, when he jumped a red light.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Squashme

On 16 May, 14:36, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <92895881-8d44-49cb-895f-e4e59ff0d216
> @b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,Squashmesays...
>
> > So just a modified gut feeling then. I'm sure that you are right that,
> > in this, cyclists are worse proportionately than motorists. More
> > cyclists infringe this rule, than motorists do, probably because they
> > can more easily get away with it. But, surely, it is almost always a
> > victimless crime. rather like speeding, I guess.
>
> Ask the cyclist who got twatted by a car the other month and died, a
> subject of another Doug rant, when he jumped a red light.
>

As I said, ALMOST always a victimless crime, rather like speeding, I
guess. That accident took a cyclist jumping a red light, combined with
a motorist who was speeding and playing with her mobile, and probably
strumming a banjo, doing her nails and eating a sandwich too.

Perhaps they should stop using the cameras to trap innocent speeders,
and refocus on red-light jumping cyclists, who, as motorists know, are
the real danger on the roads.

Me

In article <f8af5b4a-9bed-4848-b508-2b4ef015d206
@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, squashme@gmail.com says...
> On 16 May, 14:36, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <92895881-8d44-49cb-895f-e4e59ff0d216
> > @b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,Squashmesays...
> >
> > > So just a modified gut feeling then. I'm sure that you are right that,
> > > in this, cyclists are worse proportionately than motorists. More
> > > cyclists infringe this rule, than motorists do, probably because they
> > > can more easily get away with it. But, surely, it is almost always a
> > > victimless crime. rather like speeding, I guess.
> >
> > Ask the cyclist who got twatted by a car the other month and died, a
> > subject of another Doug rant, when he jumped a red light.
> >
>
> As I said, ALMOST always a victimless crime, rather like speeding, I
> guess. That accident took a cyclist jumping a red light, combined with
> a motorist who was speeding and playing with her mobile, and probably
> strumming a banjo, doing her nails and eating a sandwich too.
>
> Perhaps they should stop using the cameras to trap innocent speeders,
> and refocus on red-light jumping cyclists, who, as motorists know, are
> the real danger on the roads.
>
Or parhaps we should bring in a law against jay-walking, or jay-cycling?

Doug

On 15 May, 21:32, "Brimstone" <brimstone520-n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Daniel Barlow wrote:
> > "Brimstone" <brimstone520-n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
> >> How can it be a victimless crime when a cyclist jumps a red light,
> >> obstructs the path of another vehicle and causes a collision?
>
> > Interesting, that wasn't mentioned in the report I read. How many
> > times did that happen in the aforementioned three hours at Piccadilly
> > Circus, then?
>
> Was there any mention of the consequences of those vehicles passing the red
> light, or was the report limited to the fact of them doing it?

Well we know that the impact force from a car is very much greater
than that from a bicycle even when they are going at the same speed.
Let's say the bike and rider weigh 100kg and the car is only 1,000kg.
You can see the implication can't you? Cyclists 43 cars 270.

--
RoadPeace
http://www.roadpeace.org/
For road crash victims.

Brimstone

Doug wrote:
> On 15 May, 21:32, "Brimstone" <brimstone520-n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Daniel Barlow wrote:
>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone520-n...@yahoo.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>>> How can it be a victimless crime when a cyclist jumps a red light,
>>>> obstructs the path of another vehicle and causes a collision?
>>
>>> Interesting, that wasn't mentioned in the report I read. How many
>>> times did that happen in the aforementioned three hours at
>>> Piccadilly Circus, then?
>>
>> Was there any mention of the consequences of those vehicles passing
>> the red light, or was the report limited to the fact of them doing
>> it?
>
> Well we know that the impact force from a car is very much greater
> than that from a bicycle even when they are going at the same speed.
> Let's say the bike and rider weigh 100kg and the car is only 1,000kg.
> You can see the implication can't you? Cyclists 43 cars 270.

Indeed I can Doug. Those who put themselves in vulnerable positions should
make sure they're behaving in such a manner so as not to increase the
possibility of getting hurt. Don't you agree?

Conor

In article <f8af5b4a-9bed-4848-b508-2b4ef015d206
@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, Squashme says...
> On 16 May, 14:36, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <92895881-8d44-49cb-895f-e4e59ff0d216
> > @b64g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,Squashmesays...
> >
> > > So just a modified gut feeling then. I'm sure that you are right that,
> > > in this, cyclists are worse proportionately than motorists. More
> > > cyclists infringe this rule, than motorists do, probably because they
> > > can more easily get away with it. But, surely, it is almost always a
> > > victimless crime. rather like speeding, I guess.
> >
> > Ask the cyclist who got twatted by a car the other month and died, a
> > subject of another Doug rant, when he jumped a red light.
> >
>
> As I said, ALMOST always a victimless crime, rather like speeding, I
> guess. That accident took a cyclist jumping a red light, combined with
> a motorist who was speeding and playing with her mobile, and probably
> strumming a banjo, doing her nails and eating a sandwich too.
>
She wasn't speeding..


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams