To .erg or not to .erg - That is the Question

11-04.-2008, 04:46 PM	#1
Porkyboy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Northumberland. UK Posts: 173	To .erg or not to .erg - That is the Question Hi I'm using a PowerTap on the road and a CompuTrainer indoors, I upload all the data into WKO+. My question concerns the different options available indoors for doing intervals, I'm particularly referring to the more intense end of the scale at say L5. Using the CompuTrainer basically you have 3 options if say you are wanting to do 4x5 efforts at for example 325W. You can either: 1). Get on and ride and simply set your desired resistances using the grade control as you go along and adjust accordingly during the session. 2). Get on and ride and ride in ergometer mode and control your wattage by adjusting as you go. 3). Write a small .erg control file to set all your loads etc. for you for the session so that you can just get on, ride the session, and have all the target wattages set for you. This session can then be repeated precisely over time. My understanding is that 1 and 2 offer greater "flexibility" in that if you are either going well or struggling you can make adjustments during the session to compensate. On the other hand option 3 allows you to know exactly what (watt?) you are aiming to do during a session and you can either do the session or you can't and if you can't you just grind to a halt, once started a session cannot be changed. Option 3 allows you to more carefully control, over time and subsequent sessions, an incremental increase in your load for each effort and allows you to target more precisely the training load for each effort. There seem to be pros and cons to all approaches and clearly one can simply choose one by personal preference. I would be very interested to know what the "power gurus" and others with similar options feel is the better approach to these indoor sessions from a training effectiveness point of view, over the longer term. Thank you for your time. PBUK __________________ What do you mean your legs are hurting? Give it some welly man! Visit My Training Weblog

11-04.-2008, 05:25 PM	#2
Alex Simmons Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,743	Re: To .erg or not to .erg - That is the Question I already answered this on wattage forum.... __________________ http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/ http://www.cyclecoach.com/

11-04.-2008, 05:49 PM

Sillyoldtwit

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Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: IN PEACE AND QUIET

Posts: 1,396

Re: To .erg or not to .erg - That is the Question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Simmons

I already answered this on wattage forum....

Hey Alex, where be this wattage forum of which ye spaketh?

Tyson

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11-04.-2008, 06:21 PM

PaulMD

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Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: The Netherlands

Posts: 244

Re: To .erg or not to .erg - That is the Question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sillyoldtwit

Hey Alex, where be this wattage forum of which ye spaketh?

Tyson

http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/e446177aecf3326

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11-04.-2008, 08:31 PM

Alex Simmons

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Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Sydney, Australia

Posts: 1,743

Re: To .erg or not to .erg - That is the Question

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulMD

http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/e446177aecf3326

You need to be a member of the wattage forum to view posts, which is not hard to arrange and have a google sign on, again not a big deal.

http://groups.google.com/group/wattage

Uhl (who occasionally posts here) is a moderator and all round good guy. Members are vetted initially to keep out spammers.

The forum has been around since mid-2001 (it migrated from Topica to google groups in late-2006) and its members have been the strongest driving force in developing the knowledge base on training and racing with power meters. Coaches and the power "elite" are all frequent posters. Many just lurk due to the gems of wisdom and the archives are gold.

Myths and half truths will be dealt with mercilessly

Debates can often be robust, sometimes funny but all for the greater good.

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http://www.cyclecoach.com/

11-04.-2008, 08:38 PM	#6
Alex Simmons Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 1,743	Re: To .erg or not to .erg - That is the Question For the record, this was my answer on wattage: If the aim of such a session is to target specific physiological adaptations, such as improving VO2 Max or MAP, then what matters is that you attain sufficient time at the relative intensity level that best targets such adaptations. It does not require the wattage to be set precisely. Indeed that might be counter productive since on some days you can go a little better and others not go so good (but could have still completed a productive training session at level, albeit at a slightly reduced power). "Alls you can do is alls you can do." - Andy Coggan I could imagine an erg at L5 to be useful perhaps for testing maximal time to failure for a given wattage, although I have no idea why you'd want to do that (other than perhaps for a Critical Power model input). __________________ http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/ http://www.cyclecoach.com/

11-04.-2008, 10:52 PM

Bill Black

Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 35

Re: To .erg or not to .erg - That is the Question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porkyboy

Hi

I'm using a PowerTap on the road and a CompuTrainer indoors, I upload all the data into WKO+.

My question concerns the different options available indoors for doing intervals, I'm particularly referring to the more intense end of the scale at say L5. Using the CompuTrainer basically you have 3 options if say you are wanting to do 4x5 efforts at for example 325W. You can either:

1). Get on and ride and simply set your desired resistances using the grade control as you go along and adjust accordingly during the session.

2). Get on and ride and ride in ergometer mode and control your wattage by adjusting as you go.

3). Write a small .erg control file to set all your loads etc. for you for the session so that you can just get on, ride the session, and have all the target wattages set for you. This session can then be repeated precisely over time.

My understanding is that 1 and 2 offer greater "flexibility" in that if you are either going well or struggling you can make adjustments during the session to compensate. On the other hand option 3 allows you to know exactly what (watt?) you are aiming to do during a session and you can either do the session or you can't and if you can't you just grind to a halt, once started a session cannot be changed. Option 3 allows you to more carefully control, over time and subsequent sessions, an incremental increase in your load for each effort and allows you to target more precisely the training load for each effort.

There seem to be pros and cons to all approaches and clearly one can simply choose one by personal preference. I would be very interested to know what the "power gurus" and others with similar options feel is the better approach to these indoor sessions from a training effectiveness point of view, over the longer term.

Thank you for your time.

PBUK

I am not a big fan of ergo function training. I find it tends to lead to "dieselling" and is really not as road-specific as one can otherwise do on the trainer. Further, focus is such a large part of fast/competitive cycling and ergo tends to foster just zoning out and getting through the workout -- in fact, many folks use ergo due to their aversion to indoor training. Embrace the indoor trainer and use it to the fullest as long as you are going to use it.
Best,
Bill Black

12-04.-2008, 01:21 AM

Squint

Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2003

Posts: 337

Re: To .erg or not to .erg - That is the Question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Simmons

I could imagine an erg at L5 to be useful perhaps for testing maximal time to failure for a given wattage, although I have no idea why you'd want to do that (other than perhaps for a Critical Power model input).

At one point last season, that's what I was doing. I would ride to failure at a power output that I could sustain for ~5 min and then at another power output that I could sustain for ~20 min and plug those numbers into the CP model.

Not too long afterwards, I abandoned critical power altogether.

Erg mode does lack specificity but I think I'm getting more overload so it's a fair trade.

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