* * * NEW * * * Recumbent group.....

Harry Brogan

Myself and a couple of other folks have started a YAHOO recumbent
group. I thought I would post the link and see if anyone else would
be interested in checking ot out.

This is a MODERATED group and spamming, flaming, and uneeded comments
will NOT BE TOLERATED. (((ATTN: YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)))

I hope that SOME of you will take the time to check it out. Most
folks have some great information to share and I know that I, for one,
am sick and tired of all the crap that has seemed to crop up in here
as of late.

If anyone else has links to moderated groups I hope that they will
post them. Maybe elsewhere we can get back to the good info and
discussions that used to take place here.

ENJOY!!!!!!

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/starcityrecumbents

Tom Sherman

Edward Dolan wrote:
> [...]
> After all, there are times when assholes
> must be called out for what they are. That is what I am here for.[...]

Takes one to know one?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Jon Bendtsen

Harry Brogan wrote:
> Myself and a couple of other folks have started a YAHOO recumbent
> group. I thought I would post the link and see if anyone else would
> be interested in checking ot out.
>
> This is a MODERATED group and spamming, flaming, and uneeded comments
> will NOT BE TOLERATED. (((ATTN: YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)))

Why not just make this group moderated?



JonB

Harry Brogan

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:53:25 +0100, Jon Bendtsen <noone@example.com>
wrote:

>Harry Brogan wrote:
>> Myself and a couple of other folks have started a YAHOO recumbent
>> group. I thought I would post the link and see if anyone else would
>> be interested in checking ot out.
>>
>> This is a MODERATED group and spamming, flaming, and uneeded comments
>> will NOT BE TOLERATED. (((ATTN: YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)))
>
>Why not just make this group moderated?
>
>
>
>JonB

It is a moderated group. Just thought folks would like to check it
out.

Harry Brogan

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:53:25 +0100, Jon Bendtsen <noone@example.com>
wrote:

>Harry Brogan wrote:
>> Myself and a couple of other folks have started a YAHOO recumbent
>> group. I thought I would post the link and see if anyone else would
>> be interested in checking ot out.
>>
>> This is a MODERATED group and spamming, flaming, and uneeded comments
>> will NOT BE TOLERATED. (((ATTN: YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)))
>
>Why not just make this group moderated?
>
>
>
>JonB

It is a moderated group. Just thought folks would like to check it
out.

Ian Smith

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 10:53:25 +0100, Jon Bendtsen <noone@example.com> wrote:
> Harry Brogan wrote:
> >
> > Myself and a couple of other folks have started a YAHOO recumbent
> > group. I thought I would post the link and see if anyone else
> > would be interested in checking ot out.
> >
> > This is a MODERATED group and spamming, flaming, and uneeded
> > comments will NOT BE TOLERATED. (((ATTN: YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)))
>
> Why not just make this group moderated?

Because:

1: Making a newsgroup moderated is generally a long and complicated
procedure, opposed on principle by certain groups of people, and is
very unlikely to succeed.

2: It's an 'alt' group. Point 1 applies but more so, for different
reasons (you could trivially make a moderated group here, it won't
work).

3: It needs a moderator.

As has previously been noted - Ed has destroyed a valued resource.
Presumably he enjoys mindless destruction and causing (low-grade) harm
to others. Presumably it makes him feel big or clever or something.
Presumably some deity or karma or something will sort itself out in
due course, but until that time he gets to enjoy being despised, and
pretty much everyone that knows of him on usenet continues to pity
him.

Unfortunately, despite all that, there's nothing much that can be done
to fix the group here. Wait 'till the karma catches up and rebuild it
then.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Tom Sherman

Jon Bendtsen wrote:
> Harry Brogan wrote:
>> Myself and a couple of other folks have started a YAHOO recumbent
>> group. I thought I would post the link and see if anyone else would
>> be interested in checking ot out.
>>
>> This is a MODERATED group and spamming, flaming, and uneeded comments
>> will NOT BE TOLERATED. (((ATTN: YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)))
>
> Why not just make this group moderated?
>
rec.bicycles.off-road went from an open forum to a moderated newsgroup,
in an attempt to ban a certain poster (with the initials MV). The
moderators had higher priorities in life that reviewing posts, so it
ended up taking longer and longer for legitimate posts to appear.
However, the spam posts come through just fine. See
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.off-road/topics?hl=en> for
how successful the group has become.

What little is left of value in alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent would
disappear with moderation.

There is a moderated forum for recumbent topics, but it is a dull place,
with a self-congratulatory clique and the nanny moderators sucking the
life out. Some fates are worse than the death of a forum.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
POST FREE OR DIE!

Harry Brogan

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:44:19 -0600, Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:

>Jon Bendtsen wrote:
>> Harry Brogan wrote:
>>> Myself and a couple of other folks have started a YAHOO recumbent
>>> group. I thought I would post the link and see if anyone else would
>>> be interested in checking ot out.
>>>
>>> This is a MODERATED group and spamming, flaming, and uneeded comments
>>> will NOT BE TOLERATED. (((ATTN: YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)))
>>
>> Why not just make this group moderated?
>>
>rec.bicycles.off-road went from an open forum to a moderated newsgroup,
>in an attempt to ban a certain poster (with the initials MV). The
>moderators had higher priorities in life that reviewing posts, so it
>ended up taking longer and longer for legitimate posts to appear.
>However, the spam posts come through just fine. See
><http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.off-road/topics?hl=en> for
>how successful the group has become.
>
>What little is left of value in alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent would
>disappear with moderation.
>
>There is a moderated forum for recumbent topics, but it is a dull place,
>with a self-congratulatory clique and the nanny moderators sucking the
>life out. Some fates are worse than the death of a forum.


Posts that are made with even half-way decent intentions will be
posted and, with three moderators available and a couple more on the
way, the posts will be kept current.

The group was originally started as a way for local ((Lincoln,
Nebraska)) recumbent riders could have a place to post.

The offer was made here for the same reason. So folks could share
information with other riders out there without the hassle of looking
at posts containing drivel.

There is a wealth of information out there that can and IS shared.
For me it got to the point wher I was sick and tired of seeing posts
by certain people who, evidently, had nothing better to do than to try
and get a rise out of folks. Even putting these people on a **PLONK**
list didn't seem to hel because folks would respond with quotes.

I rarely, if ever, respond to posts like that and, with this group, I
don't even have to take a chance on alowing someone into the group.

gotbent

>
>
> I don't have any particular "agenda". I have simply tired o those
> that, evidently, have nothing better to do than trash postings by
> others. Gotbent, you know to whom I am talking about. Everything
> will be posted. But if it's something that is simply a trashing by
> someone with THEIR own agenda...IE: to start crap. Then THAT will not
> be tolerated.
>
> I agree with free posting and I often don't read everything posted
> here. I even have a few people in the plonk list.


Great, you have the concept of SELF-MODERATION, but you also don't post much
here, so it would seem that you need some more practice. It is a matter of
self discipline and patience to keep this place going. I don't post much
either, but when I do I try to not get involved in the rediculous emotional
charged drek that is so prevalent here.

In the good old, and probably never to return days, this was more than a
place where newbies tried to learn more about the unique machines that they
had just discovered and were contemplating a purchase. Since there was a
core of regular posters, a sense of community evolved. Some regulars were
funny and creative writers, others were more didactic and technical. For the
most part personalities evolved and were revealed and there were many
interesting threads. Unlike the moderated boards, the smarmy odor of
syncophantism was not the order of the day.

If posters could stay focussed on the overall topic of bents this would
probably still be an active board, but immaturity seems to always get the
upper berth and soon any disagreements between posters degenerated from
debate and discourse to personal attacks and diatribes. People always tried
to get the last word in and soon a mob of sensless posts reeking of vitriol
would follow. You line "...THAT will not be tolerated" says mountains about
you intolerance, your desire to control others free speech because it
doesn't fit your criteria. I will always prefer a place where a schmuck can
say something schmuckish that I can ignore or quick scan and ignore, or
heaven forbid reply to (which never stops the drek...only ignoring it will
ever work because it's always around). I just can't accept a paradigm where
the freedom of speech is abrogated by anyone, whether it's a usenet group, a
yahoo group, or Bushian republicans.

Good luck to you on your moderated, safe from the real world and and bathed
synthetic politeness place. You just will never find me there.

gotbent, aka frvt rider.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom Sherman

Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Lorenzo L. Love" <lllove@thegrid.net> wrote in message
> news:13rjq5s27destd9@corp.supernews.com...
>> Harry Brogan wrote:
> [...]
>>> I don't have any particular "agenda". I have simply tired o those
>>> that, evidently, have nothing better to do than trash postings by
>>> others. Gotbent, you know to whom I am talking about. Everything
>>> will be posted. But if it's something that is simply a trashing by
>>> someone with THEIR own agenda...IE: to start crap. Then THAT will not
>>> be tolerated.
>>>
>>> I agree with free posting and I often don't read everything posted
>>> here. I even have a few people in the plonk list.
>>
>> I have been in a few Yahoo groups in which the moderator promised open and
>> free discussion but quickly turned it into a rigidly controlled
>> dictatorship. No thanks. Aside from the oppressive effects of
>> moderation, why would anyone outside of Lincoln, Nebraska want to be part
>> of your group? If you just want a recumbent Yahoo group, here are a few:
>>
>> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/BentNation
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BikeEForever
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BentBikes
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BikeE
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Recumbents
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vision-bent-owners
>>
>> None of them are doing spectacularly well. A search at Yahoo groups home
>> shows 181 hits for the word recumbent, so you have plenty of others to
>> choose from.
>>
>>
>> Lorenzo L. Love
>> http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove
>
> I doubt that any of the moderated groups above would ever have put up with
> the Love-Varney dialogue on the Bigha of some years ago, still the most
> hilarious posting ever in the entire history of ARBR! I have to laugh just
> thinking about it.
>
Hey, would you pay full retail price for a BigHa?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Jon

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote
> Jon Meinecke wrote:
>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote
>>
> My Kingdom for a "c"!

I sometimes have to tell people to get the "h" out of my
first name. %^)

> I dislike the smug, self-righteous attitude of several former posters who
> crowed about leaving the group for "better["] (their opinion,
> not mine) pastures).

Their opinion is their own. For them, better is where better is...

Some people don't like chocolate ice cream. The gall! How
dare they tell me how much better vanilla is! Or worse, tell
me how much healthier is that fat-free soft-serve forzen yogurt!

>> Only by the mutual cooperation of participants. Newsgroups
>> are a means. The "ends" as of 2008 for ARBR are nothing
>> remarkable.
>>
> ARBR is not useful for discussing recumbent related
> topics if there are not enough people to carry the
> discussion.

And there are "not enough people" because "ARBR
is not useful (in people's opinion) for discussing recumbent
related topics".

There's a pattern here.

>> Some assign blame for the outcome more broadly.
>>
> Well, who gets mentioned the most by people who leave?

Unremarkable.

Who would you like to see come back?
Ask them, why they won't...

>>> Why can they not stand up for themselves?
>>
>> So, how's that working out? %^)
>>
> No one has ever flamed me enough to discourage
> me from posting to a newsgroup.

I meant, what effect has such "standing up" had on
the newgroup "contributions" of others? Did it convince
the "perpetrator(s)" to leave or change their behavior?
Did it convince people not to leave?

>> Consider that "giving as good as you get" doesn't
>> appeal to some people.
>>
> Agreed, that is not appealing. Giving better than one gets
> is more fun.

And may contribute to some people's opinion of where
"better is". For people looking for that sort of "fun" ARBR
may be a "place to be." Not aparticularly distinctive one
by Usenet standards, however. As I said, what's happened
to ARBR was both predictable and unremarkable.

Jon

Tom Sherman

Jon Meinecke wrote:
> [...]
>>>> Why can they not stand up for themselves?
>>> So, how's that working out? %^)
>>>
>> No one has ever flamed me enough to discourage
>> me from posting to a newsgroup.
>
> I meant, what effect has such "standing up" had on
> the newgroup "contributions" of others? Did it convince
> the "perpetrator(s)" to leave or change their behavior?
> Did it convince people not to leave?
>
That was not the point I was trying to make. The point is that people
need to get a thicker skin. This is Usenet, after all.

>>> Consider that "giving as good as you get" doesn't
>>> appeal to some people.
>>>
>> Agreed, that is not appealing. Giving better than one gets
>> is more fun.
>
> And may contribute to some people's opinion of where
> "better is". For people looking for that sort of "fun" ARBR
> may be a "place to be." Not aparticularly distinctive one
> by Usenet standards, however. As I said, what's happened
> to ARBR was both predictable and unremarkable.
>
No, the point is I will not let myself be pushed around by a Usenet bully.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Tom Sherman

Edward Dolan wrote:
> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fpl3um$f89$2@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Jon Meinecke wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>>>> Why can they not stand up for themselves?
>>>>> So, how's that working out? %^)
>>>>>
>>>> No one has ever flamed me enough to discourage
>>>> me from posting to a newsgroup.
>>> I meant, what effect has such "standing up" had on
>>> the newgroup "contributions" of others? Did it convince
>>> the "perpetrator(s)" to leave or change their behavior?
>>> Did it convince people not to leave?
>>>
>> That was not the point I was trying to make. The point is that people need
>> to get a thicker skin. This is Usenet, after all.
>>
>>>>> Consider that "giving as good as you get" doesn't
>>>>> appeal to some people.
>>>>>
>>>> Agreed, that is not appealing. Giving better than one gets
>>>> is more fun.
>>> And may contribute to some people's opinion of where
>>> "better is". For people looking for that sort of "fun" ARBR
>>> may be a "place to be." Not aparticularly distinctive one
>>> by Usenet standards, however. As I said, what's happened
>>> to ARBR was both predictable and unremarkable.
>>>
>> No, the point is I will not let myself be pushed around by a Usenet bully.
>
> But Tom Sherman sure does know how to take a powder when a criminal vandal
> troll (Ed Gin) is bent on destroying the group. He and Jon Meinecke are as
> one on that issue.
>
Firstly, where is the evidence that Ed Gin was Johnny NoCom?

Secondly, when did "Johnny NoCom" ever try to bully me on this newsgroup?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Jon

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote
> Jon Meinecke wrote:
>>
>> I meant, what effect has such "standing up" had on
>> the newgroup "contributions" of others? Did it convince
>> the "perpetrator(s)" to leave or change their behavior?
>> Did it convince people not to leave?
>>
> That was not the point I was trying to make. The point is
> that people need to get a thicker skin.

There are a number of models of interaction, on Usenet,
in the "real" world... Thicker skin is one way. Perspective
of self is another.

> This is Usenet, after all.

....and not everyone's cup of tea.

Single estate, first-flush organic SFTGFOP Darjeeling
for me, please... Made with water fresh from a high
mountain stream. After a day of bike riding or a hike
in the forest. On the edge of an alpine meadow or the
shore of a lake or the middle of a prairie or a desert...
Sipped in the company of kind and thoughtful and
gentle people engaged in life...

[responding in kind to base-est posts, "giving as good"
as or "better than you get"]
>> [may] contribute to some people's opinion of where
>> "better is". [...].
>>
> No, the point is I will not let myself be pushed around
> by a Usenet bully.

Pushed around? Perhaps not, but by responding you are
engaged.

You argue that the people who "abandoned" ARBR made
it useless. They were too thin skinned, were bullied and
didn't stand up for themselves. They are now smug and
objects of disdain for proclaiming their opinion that other
forums are superior...

And you want these people back? %^)

There is no "back". There is no there "here".
There is what is, and what could be.

I argue that ARBR (and all newsgroups) are communities,--
or ecosystems. They are not simply full of thick-skinned
tough carnivores. They change over time and exist with
often a delicate balance. Moreover, we likely agree that
a process of *intentional* "habitat destruction" altered the
balance of ARBR. Sadly, that's unremarkable in Usenet,
just par for the course...

If we want a Usenet group useful for discussion of recumbent
bikes, I assert we have to provide content and improve the
curb appeal. Attracting a diverse group of people whose
presense creates a broad sense of community and value
cannot be done by creating an atmosphere of little more
than ongoing p*ssing contests.*

But apparently, that's just me. %^)

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and
expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)

Jon

* -- Could we at least go for accuracy rather than distance? %^P