SST Intensity

23-01.-2008, 02:41 AM	#1
jsocia Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 23	SST Intensity In regards to SST and training in general, should most or all of the efforts be a maximal effort for the given duration? I generally do some combination of the following in a 2 or 3 day blocks (lately 3 day blocks more often than not) followed by 1 day off, before hitting another block: 1 X 120 ~340 1 X 90 ~355 2 X 60 ~360 3-4 X 30 ~375 2-3 X 20 ~395 8 X 5 ~ 445 (not too often this time of year, but a couple times a month... just for frame of reference) Lately, every time I'm on the trainer I always shoot for my last personal best for each duration... or at least for the first few intervals depending the breakup of the workload. I'm interested in what my fellow SST'ers thoughts are?

23-01.-2008, 02:46 AM

daveryanwyoming

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Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsocia

...Lately, every time I'm on the trainer I always shoot for my last personal best for each duration...

Personally, that's a path to burnout for me. Chasing records is really hard mentally and physically and there's a lot of evidence that it's neither necessary nor recommended for continued progress. But then I'd kill to be able to put out your power numbers, so maybe you're made of tougher stuff

-Dave

23-01.-2008, 02:55 AM

jsocia

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Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 23

Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming

-Dave

Thanks Dave. Well that's exactly what prompted my inquiry... meeting my daily goals is starting to cause a little bit of anxiety. I know you're on to something about mental burnout, and that's my fear as well. I think for the long run I should ease up on the throttle a wee bit... but some sort of pride or ego thing is kinda getting the best of me... I think I just needed to hear the voice of reason from another source. Thanks again...

23-01.-2008, 02:58 AM

frenchyge

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Location: Kansas City, USA

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Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsocia

In regards to SST and training in general, should most or all of the efforts be a maximal effort for the given duration?

No, the 'sweet spot' is closer to a moderate effort than a maximal one. For me, it usually feels pretty easy at the beginning, but requires some focus to maintain by the very end of the ride. At the end it feels like I've done some work, but I'm not in pain.

The goal is the ability to do higher volumes rather than teeth-gritting intensity.

23-01.-2008, 03:04 AM

rmur17

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 926

Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsocia

In regards to SST and training in general, should most or all of the efforts be a maximal effort for the given duration? I generally do some combination of the following in a 2 or 3 day blocks (lately 3 day blocks more often than not) followed by 1 day off, before hitting another block:

1 X 120 ~340
1 X 90 ~355
2 X 60 ~360
3-4 X 30 ~375
2-3 X 20 ~395

8 X 5 ~ 445 (not too often this time of year, but a couple times a month... just for frame of reference)

Lately, every time I'm on the trainer I always shoot for my last personal best for each duration... or at least for the first few intervals depending the breakup of the workload. I'm interested in what my fellow SST'ers thoughts are?

bloody hell: that's an awful lot of power!

When I'm training on a real FTP focus (versus CTL), I do regularly shoot for power PB's but not every workout and definitely not every interval thereof! Maybe the 1st interval on Tue/Wed/Sun. After those, I just do what I can.

Right now (with races still 4 months away), I'm looking at CTL first, FTP 2nd and so am not pushing the individual workouts quite that hard (probably 95% ). I'm more concerned about getting CTL right up to my pre-season norms and FTP just within 'striking distance of the summit'.

Just wondering what your weekly training time and TSS loads are? CTL?

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23-01.-2008, 03:16 AM

jsocia

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Posts: 23

Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmur17

Just wondering what your weekly training time and TSS loads are? CTL?

Weekly training time is usually in the neighborhood of 10 hours, not sure about calculating TSS and CTL though...

23-01.-2008, 03:23 AM

jsocia

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Posts: 23

Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchyge

For me, it usually feels pretty easy at the beginning...

For the longer efforts of 60-120 minutes, that's how they always start out, but in order to maintain power for the duration they usually end up being 'teeth-gritting intensity' for the last third or so.

23-01.-2008, 07:01 PM

bing181

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 91

Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchyge

I was going to post a thread asking "how sweet is the sweet in SST?" ... I'll post here, but if it's too OT, can move it.

My question follows on from the above. I see people with these kinds of figures, or doing a 2 hour SS ride ... that would be out of the question for me. 2 hour tempo, OK, but if I apply even the lower end of Coggan's figures, 1 hour at say high L3 would be Bloody Hard Work - though not quite teeth grittingly hard.

Maybe I'm just a wimp, maybe I'm older than I thought (54). But if I really want higher volumes in the SS, I need to come down to 82-85% of FT or even lower on subsequent days.

SST is supposed to be harder than just tempo isn't it?

FWIW, on my Tacx trainer, my FT is around 230-240W for 65 Kg. Currently doing my 2 x 20's at 210/220, SS around 200/210.

Thanks in advance for any help/input.

B

Last edited by bing181 : 23-01.-2008 at 07:02 PM. Reason: spelling!

23-01.-2008, 10:10 PM

Alex Simmons

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Location: Sydney, Australia

Posts: 1,574

Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by bing181

I'd suggest the sweet spot is actually more of a sweet range, from upper L2 to FTP. Now you could definitely do upper L2 for 2 hours. If you couldn't, it's either because you're just starting out and/or FTP is overestimated.

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24-01.-2008, 03:06 AM

#10

rmur17

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Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsocia

hmmm .. I won't claim to go *that* hard on 'em - at not least not regularly but I get your drift.

The first half of the effort should feel moderate, progressing to hard by the 3/4 point and very hard or higher for the last quarter. I do enjoy pushing for 2-hr PB's on the CT for example ... right now they are '2008' PB's rather than all-time but good all the same.

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24-01.-2008, 03:39 AM

#11

jeff828

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Posts: 224

Re: SST Intensity

AWESOME NUMBERS, DO YOU RACE? WHAT CATGORY?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsocia

24-01.-2008, 07:22 AM

#12

jsocia

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Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 23

Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff828

AWESOME NUMBERS, DO YOU RACE? WHAT CATGORY?

This past season was my first year racing Expert MTB, usually placed in the top 5. The prior season I raced Sport as a first year racer and placed 1st overall for the season in one series, and 2nd in another. Regarding the numbers, I'd estimate my FTP to be about 50 watts higher now than the peak of the previous season. Last season I had made the mistake of focusing too much of my training around very intense 1-4 minute efforts, and was lacking in sustainable power.

28-01.-2008, 09:13 AM

#13

bbrauer

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Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 70

Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsocia

What Dave said. I would add that it's important not to get in the habit of looking at a workout where you didn't set a record as a failure, but get the feeling of acomplishment and reward from completing each workout completely and with focus. You really don't even have to kill yourself out there each time. Think of each day as a building block and a step towards your larger goals. Sometimes you stumble along the way, but as long as your moving forward, you're making progress.

Oh, and the reason why I revived this thread was a question for you. I see you're doing Coggan-ish type of workouts. Are you still working with Dave Morris?

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28-01.-2008, 10:24 PM

#14

jsocia

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Re: SST Intensity

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbrauer

Oh, and the reason why I revived this thread was a question for you. I see you're doing Coggan-ish type of workouts. Are you still working with Dave Morris?

Never actually worked with Morris, but I did use his strength training and block training methods with great success for building up lots of power for shorter intense efforts. This year I've been focusing on extending that power into longer durations.

I'm still strength training as well, primarily single-leg squats with a Bosu ball and Smith-Machine to improve some muscle imbalance that was causing Patella-Femoral syndrome in my left leg. But I've also noticed increased muscle endurance from this training as well...

As far as Morris style training with 2-3 day blocks of 1-4 minute L5-L7 efforts, I'll pick that back up about 6 weeks out from race day. I'll continue with the SST style workouts as well, but only 1-2 days a week.

29-01.-2008, 10:34 AM

#15

jsirabella

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: NYC, USA

Posts: 451

Re: SST Intensity

Are you using a CT or powermeter outdoors? How are you know you are doing these numbers?

I would love to see a guy putting out 355 watt for 90 minutes? What kind of terrrain are you riding on to produce these watts. I find it difficult on flat terrain to generate anywhere near those numbers when doing 30 - 35 mph....

Have you thought about doing TT?

-Js

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsocia

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