Consistency during 20min interval

30-11.-2007, 07:37 AM	#1
grahamspringett Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 124	Consistency during 20min interval Did 2x20min sweet spot on the turbo last night. One was 11.004km, the other 11.008km. This is a 4 metre difference, is it not? That can't be bad! NP and AP were the same. Maybe I'm showing off, but I'm surprised that this consistency can be maintained.

30-11.-2007, 09:41 AM

daveryanwyoming

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Join Date: Oct 2006

Posts: 1,356

Re: Consistency during 20min interval

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamspringett

...I'm surprised that this consistency can be maintained.

Yep, nothing like removing all those pesky variables like wind resistance, hills, traffic lights and such to let you really pace a steady effort. In general I expect VI for trainer SST intervals to be very near 1.00. If it NP and AP vary much more than that I was either doing some kind of clever microintervals or I was trying to push too hard and couldn't sustain the initial effort. YMMV.

Keep up the good work and dial into that steadiness as a way to get used to pacing time trials and similar steady efforts,
-Dave

30-11.-2007, 09:50 AM

Alex Simmons

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Re: Consistency during 20min interval

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamspringett

Maybe I'm showing off, but I'm surprised that this consistency can be maintained.

What does your wife think?

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30-11.-2007, 11:38 AM

rmur17

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 926

Re: Consistency during 20min interval

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamspringett

Did 2x20min sweet spot on the turbo last night. One was 11.004km, the other 11.008km. This is a 4 metre difference, is it not? That can't be bad! NP and AP were the same.

Maybe I'm showing off, but I'm surprised that this consistency can be maintained.

were you monitoring power or speed? Or just PE?

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rmur

30-11.-2007, 12:45 PM	#5
grahamspringett Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 124	Re: Consistency during 20min interval We have 2 kids and a third is on the way. Very little chance for any consistency other than on the bike... I was monitoring power while trying to keep up with Di Luca up Mt Zoncolan. Sweet spot is such a narrow band that it is really hard to keep in it, even on an indoor trainer. I was pretty chuffed not to say surprised that the two were so close, as my power reading goes up and down like a yoyo, but since the window is only 14 watts there's got to be a close eye kept on the PT. Off topic, but I watched a sprint stage on this year's Giro, it was the first or second flat stage after Zoncolan. Two AG2R guys led into the final bend before the line and the lead guy's front wheel just went from under him, he was going that fast. Impressive crunch into the barriers!

30-11.-2007, 01:01 PM	#6
wiredued Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,117	Re: Consistency during 20min interval Consistency.... accuracy it's so boring I'm switching back to heart rate it's like a box of chocolates you never know what your gonna get __________________ Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. http://www.earnharts.com/html/reala...ecific.asp?id=3

30-11.-2007, 01:02 PM	#7
grahamspringett Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 124	Re: Consistency during 20min interval Boring? You're doing it too easy if it's boring! Aren't you even gritting your teeth?

30-11.-2007, 01:06 PM

wiredued

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 1,117

Re: Consistency during 20min interval

I kinda lost track of my FTP after a tree climbing injury to the rib cage so I'm finding the sweet spot by HR for now and it's kinda fun trying to nail it down. But I know I'm on target if I choose a speed that gives me an average of 159bpm on the second interval of a 3x20.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamspringett

Boring? You're doing it too easy if it's boring! Aren't you even gritting your teeth?

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Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. http://www.earnharts.com/html/reala...ecific.asp?id=3

30-11.-2007, 01:22 PM	#9
grahamspringett Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 124	Re: Consistency during 20min interval So you're still chasing numbers? That's OK then. Wouldn't like to think we were missing all the fun!

30-11.-2007, 10:50 PM

#10

rmur17

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 926

Re: Consistency during 20min interval

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamspringett

We have 2 kids and a third is on the way. Very little chance for any consistency other than on the bike...

I was monitoring power while trying to keep up with Di Luca up Mt Zoncolan. Sweet spot is such a narrow band that it is really hard to keep in it, even on an indoor trainer.

I was pretty chuffed not to say surprised that the two were so close, as my power reading goes up and down like a yoyo, but since the window is only 14 watts there's got to be a close eye kept on the PT.

Off topic, but I watched a sprint stage on this year's Giro, it was the first or second flat stage after Zoncolan. Two AG2R guys led into the final bend before the line and the lead guy's front wheel just went from under him, he was going that fast. Impressive crunch into the barriers!

how long have you been training with power and the PT in particular? How many samples are you averaging for the display?

What I'm getting at is: unless you have a long sample window, the PT displayed power will bounce around quite a bit even with steady 'real' power -- actually dependent on cadence as it relates to the 1.26sec 'aggregate sample' time.

Also, sweet spot ain't that narrow unless your FTP is down around 70W!

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rmur

01-12.-2007, 05:40 AM	#11
grahamspringett Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 124	Re: Consistency during 20min interval I've been training with power and using a PT for a few years and seriously for 12 months. No idea what the sampling is. But I don't think 88-94% is that big a window. For me that's 204-218W. What is it you're getting at? How big is your sweet spot?

01-12.-2007, 05:54 AM

#12

rmur17

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 926

Re: Consistency during 20min interval

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamspringett

I've been training with power and using a PT for a few years and seriously for 12 months.

No idea what the sampling is.

But I don't think 88-94% is that big a window. For me that's 204-218W.

What is it you're getting at? How big is your sweet spot?

about 80W wide when in good condition. Admittedly a little narrower now.

Basically 0.75-0.95 of FTP based on AP ...

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rmur

01-12.-2007, 08:56 AM	#13
grahamspringett Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 124	Re: Consistency during 20min interval It would seem your definition of sweet spot is much broader than the one I've been using, as defined by Andrew Coggan. Where did you determine your range? I'm always on the look-out for more information.

01-12.-2007, 11:28 AM

#14

rmur17

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Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 926

Re: Consistency during 20min interval

Quote:

Originally Posted by grahamspringett

It would seem your definition of sweet spot is much broader than the one I've been using, as defined by Andrew Coggan. Where did you determine your range? I'm always on the look-out for more information.

well I've been training with power long enough such that I can claim to have been riding SST or tempo to LL4 before the concept was ever expressed as such. Of course, I likely stole it from someone in 2002-2003 off the ole topica wattage list. Lots of exchange of training ideas back then ... and basically "we" found that one could sustain lotsa TSS riding in that range. Now that was the starting point and one could argue that load based on TSS alone (back then) was insufficient proof of efficacy. The confirmation was when people reported "magic" gains in FTP w/o actually training very close to or above FTP (traditional L4).

Later on, the familiar ,yet I believe conceptual diagrams, (or subjective vs. quantitative) were presented which confirmed what "we" had empirically found to be beneficial.

So personally, I think there's plenty of float in that range and if one is not time/weather limited, it's the very best way to rack up lotsa CTL and give FTP a darned good nudge as well. Push up vs. pull up as someone once said.

When doing such rides, I simply ride as hard as I can w/o blowing up before the end of the ride. I try to make the last hour AP/NP higher than the first. Last summer I did an entire week about 22hrs and close to 1500 TSS and I felt great after that (of course I wasn't working that week!).

Anyhow for me it's simply a close to maximal well-paced effort from 1.5 to around 4hrs.

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