Estimating TSS for a weights session

Tim M

I've just started my winter training program. The first few weeks includes some weights sessions in the Gym. Can anyone help me out with regard to how to go about estimating the TSS score of a weights session so I can enter it into WKO+ to keep my CTL & ATL reasonably accurate in Performance manager.

Thanks in advance.

Alex Simmons

You can't.

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rmur17

aye I was tempted to just reply "Zero" as well but I won't

unless you're a track sprinter, completely untrained, or perhaps recovering from a major loss of muscle due to injury or illness, the evidence is out there that strongly indicates there's no weight-training benefit to cycling performance.

Personally I do (not as much as I ought to) core training to keep my ole abs and lower back conditioned but nothing else. These 'workouts' don't take much o/o me and similar to daily walks and the like, I don't assign them any TSS value.

If you find your non-cycling training is costing you in terms of recovery etc, simple suggestion: drop it.

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rmur

Felt_Rider

Perhaps someday weightlifters can join the power game

http://www.strengthperformance.com/TendoUnit.asp

http://www.strengthperformance.com/PowerFactor.asp

Me? I'm old school.
Throw another couple of 44kg plates on the bar and see if I can get it off floor

otb4evr

Those are awesome.

Explain to me, though, how the feedback that you get will help you get stronger...

Jim

Felt_Rider

Not really stronger, but a seeking a higher power output for certain movements.
I doubt this will ever get the popularity in a gym like a cycling power meter.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3 (this should calm some of the discussion for confused cyclists )
Link 4

frenchyge

Too bad that thing doesn't readout TSS, too.

wiredued

Is there an analytic weight lifting site? I've always wanted to find SST for incline curls and presses.

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Felt_Rider

I was just stirring up things a bit by stating that there is testing of power outside the sport of cycling, but let me clarify that this testing is primarily used by coaches for specific training to a variety of particular activities and the purposes are different and perhaps not as refined as cycling (yet).

I am not sure if this will become mainstream in the fitness industry because the average joe will not understand it anyway. The equipment would be expensive and expensive to maintain.

It is important to understand the difference between power and strength. Which activity requires one or the other or both. From that knowledge a plan of training specificity is formed to progress in power/agility or strength.

For strength testing power output is meaningless.
With a pure strength event it will be obivious of success or failure without digital recording. At a powerlifting event and training it is obvious if the lifter is successful in a explosive lift. However, in olympic lifting there is an aspect of power and agility. Measuring the velocity of the bar movement might be beneficial to the coach, but not near as beneficial of measuring and recording power output for those in cycling, rowing or other similar events.

Why was the squat bar in the Tendo unit shown?
It wasn't for powerlifting, but more likely a method some coaches in basketball, olympic lifting or events involving vertical jumping to be tested. A squat bar may be used or a force platform, but these methods are not for the average fitness buff that wants to become stronger.

The average gym lifter (like myself) simply need to record sets, repetitions, success or failure in the lift. No other data is really needed for the average lifter. For the competitive cyclists specificity in training for power is the primary goal. We know that training for strength is distracting for the competitive cyclist.

I fall into the fitness category so my training is more holistic. I train for power, strength and agility. However, I fully realize that I will not excel as efficiently in any of these events and will be mediocre at best.

wiredued

Isn't time important data when lifting for "big guns"/strength/definition? I think my routine is more beneficial when I complete it with good form in about 5 minutes if I can't do it in that time I take some weight off the dumbells if I do it in 4 minutes I add weight. Am I on track with that thinking?

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Felt_Rider

I have been fortunate to have trained along some of the best strength athletes in the world (olympic lifters, powerlifters and bodybuilders) and yet many of them are very diverse in their training principles. I have met a scant few like yourself that regulate time in that manner. Therefore I generally say, "if it is working for you than continue."

However, among some of the world class powerlifters (Curtis Leslie - to name one) that I have watched day by day train for events would have more than 10 minutes between sets on the squat or deadlift platform. He had more than 6 guys training with him so the time it would take to change the weights for each guy, for that guy to get wrapped and psyched up, do the lift there would be a lot of rest time. However, powerlifters are typically not concerned with hypertrophy like a bodybuilder. In fact some do not want to gain too much muscle if it puts that lifter into the bottom of another weight class. Hypertrophy is the primary goal of a bodybuilder, but the typical bodybuilder (though most want to be strong really care more about gaining muscle mass than strength). Many of the bodybuilders train with a variety of principles and periodization. I have seen success doing many different training styles and would be hesitant to fully endorse one particular style of training over another.

For my genetics I was successful training with almost a hybrid powerlifting type of routine during the off-season and with the change of body composition and the reduction in strength as I would lose bodyfat and water retention I would relent to the condition, use shorter time frames between sets, up the overall volume of sets and repetitions. My off-season I would work up into heavy 3 rep sets for squats with a lot of rest time between sets, which is traditionally considered taboo among bodybuilders, but I personally found that if I stayed with a particular weight (lets say 75% of max all year round) my strength and size would plateau and actually decrease. I had to continually cycle my training in order to be progressive. If I could do 10 reps with 405 lbs than my training weight of 315 lbs would be much easier. If I worked my way up to 500 lbs than 405 would become easier. Simple view for my genetics was the stronger I became the more muscle mass I would add. However, muscle mass does not always equate to strength. I have seen many much smaller and thinner than I that could handle much more weight in an explosive lift.

Do you see a similarity of training philosophy now between lifting and cycling?

Though they are different each has a maximum output (and a training range - percent of maximum). The goal is to push the threshold of strength in one and power in the other.

There is a lot to this discussion and I hope in my haste to write I didn't make it more confusing.

wiredued

Thought provoking as always thanks for the reply...I kind of stumbled on the time aspect because I do a warm up on a recumbent that has time on the display as I pedal and do incline curls then presses. I read some where that 4x9 struggling on the last couple reps is a good target for curls so I keep that the same for both exercises. Then I noticed I didn't get much out of it if I wasn't close to 5 minutes.

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Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. http://www.earnharts.com/html/reala...ecific.asp?id=3