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11-09.-2003, 12:24 AM
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#1 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7
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need some help on how not to get dropped!
so i've been doing this road cycling thing for about a year now and i am totally addicted. started out with the aim of losing 25 lbs (which i did, at least i succeeded at one thing) and was averaging 13mph for 2-3 hr rides. anyway, that was a year ago, i'm now up to about 18 mph for centuries (done a couple so far). BUT (there's always a "but"), i went on a group ride yesterday that kept popping me out the back with every little incline and i was struggling to keep up with them, mind you i was still averaging about 18mph for the 35 miler. the group says that their pace is usually in the 20-22 mph range and so i was thinking i was going to be able to stay with them. My question is, what types of sessions should i start putting in to try and not get dropped with every acceleration? i just can't keep up with sudden changes in speed. i'm a pretty decent climber (funny enough that's where i was able to bridge the gaps). at least, i think i'm pretty decent, i can average about 11-13 mph for a 5-6 mile 4% climb. my training so far has consisted of solo rides in the 70-85% max HR range, with a weekly 4m TT that i'm doing in about 10:00 (up from 16:00 a year ago). i can average about 20-22 mph for about 60 mins then drop to about 18 which i can comfortably do forever. should i start doing intervals? hills? EPO? well, maybe not that last one... any advice from anyone who has gone from being the struggler in the pack to the top dog (or just anyone who has advice for me) would be appreciated. also, i'm thinking of racing next season, i'l have to start out at cat-5 but do you think with my current speed/fitness level i can hang with them or should i just do charity century rides and relish dropping the 260 lbs guys riding $5K bikes that weigh 15 lbs? yeah, it's sad but i have to cherish dropping someone!!
Last edited by ciclamino : 11-09.-2003 at 02:27 AM. |
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11-09.-2003, 07:32 AM
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#2 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 116
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Re: need some help on how not to get dropped!
I have been in the same position. Just stick with it, and one day you'll find that there's someone else behind you on the hills.
Other tips: 1. Some of the other riders 'cheat' and don't use a heavy training bike! So you may have to get something lighter for the hills! 2. Get to the front when you know a hill is approaching |
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11-09.-2003, 07:21 PM
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#3 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 68
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Re: Re: need some help on how not to get dropped!
Smash yourself to pieces until you can stay on!!!!!!!!!!!
OR Train more often on your own, but go easy and consistent!! Do the one that sounds more appealing, either way works!!  |
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11-09.-2003, 08:06 PM
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#4 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,265
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Practice following the wheel correctly - very close and off to one side by a few inches.
Also pedalling a smaller gear (higher cadence) will allow you to accelerate with the other riders. React to the people at the front of the group and not the person in front (i.e. if they go faster, get ready to speed up). Don't look at the rider in front's wheel, backside or jersey. Rather look through the seatpin, to the floor or rider in front (of the rider in front of you). Also, what are the symptoms (e.g. out of breath, burning legs, etc.) that you experiance when being droped from the group? This can point to where your fitness lacks. Usualy being droped from a group is a technique issue rather than a fitness issue (as even the least fit person can usualy lift the pace over small climbs, too recover on the flat or decent on the other side). I have friends that can sit on at 22+ mph, but struggle to maintain this for more than a few minutes on their own.
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12-09.-2003, 02:35 PM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 45
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You will get better, you lost 25 lbs so you must be better than when you were 25 lbs heavier. Cycling hurts it is simple, as Greg lemond said once "It does not hurt any less, you just go faster" You get dropped because you are hurting and your body says STOP and your brain agrees with it. Just take no notice of what your body is telling you, all hills end, all rides finish, everybody hurts up the hills! When i was beginning racing I would say to myself do not let them go or hold that guys wheel no matter what!
It works because after a while you find yourself mid pack, cruising while somebody who once was you is struggling at the back. Good luck |
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15-09.-2003, 11:05 AM
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#6 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 157
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Re: need some help on how not to get dropped!
Quote:
This is a really funny post. I have been where you are. I have to admit that it completely sucks. One thing I do is try to find the steepest freaking hill/mountain in my area and I go sprint up it at least twice a week. Here in Utah, my Goliath is a 9 mile Cat. 4 in Sundance, Utah. It kicks my butt, but everytime I do it, I get faster and more importantly, stronger. When I'm racing and I see a hill...all I can think about are my training sessions and all the pain I felt as I sprinted up the hill. In my mind I keep telling myself over and over again [sometimes out loud] "THIS IS NOTHING!!!" It intimidates the hell out of other racers...and then I bolt like there's no tomorrow. In short, it's not only a physical challenge...but more importantly...a mental victory when climbing mountains and steep grades. Best Wishes, Vector7 |
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15-09.-2003, 11:31 AM
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#7 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
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Re: Re: need some help on how not to get dropped!
Along those same lines (if you don't have big hills) interval training definitely helps! Nobody likes them but they work! And as mentioned, learning to conserve your energy by drafting properly makes a big difference. Are you taking monster pulls at the front? If so, and you begin to tire, drop back and maybe skip a couple of pulls until you recover. I also find the quickest way to improve is to not to be afraid to be aggressive. By that I don't mean be an asshole, but aggressive in your efforts. I've found those that are content to sit in the back and hang on never really improve. And it shows when the **** hits the fan. Remember training is just that, training. Don't be afraid to push yourself. It may hurt, and you may get dropped, but you'll find that'll happen less and less until one day, you're dropping Them!
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20-09.-2003, 11:05 PM
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#8 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 31
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When you guys said,to be aggresive..does it mean..when climbing we go to our max and when our body can't take it , we stop? And when we recover, we go at it again?
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22-09.-2003, 01:15 PM
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#9 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
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No, at least not from my POV. By aggressive, that refers to pushing beyond your normal pace but at a level that you can maintain for a set period. Some refer to this as threshold training, where you reach a point when you fell the 'burn' without going into oxygen debt. The more you do this, more your muscles adapt and your threshold increases thus allowing you to push harder for longer periods.
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01-10.-2003, 12:00 AM
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#10 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 88
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[Need more info..
do you train with a heart monitor? Do you follow a program or just ride? You need to determine your Resting Heart Rate, Your Max HR, and your Lactate Threshold HRE. Once you've done that, do a variety of training rides combining some days doing JUST strict aerobic work, another day strict recovery, then another day doing rides at or near the LTR range. The combination of these different rides will take you to a far greater level of fitness. Sounds like you've done great so far, and certainly have the "stuff" to hang with the Big Dogs. Maximize your potential by applying a little science to your riding, and you'll be there faster than you can imagine. Also, how is your diet prior and during your long rides? Good luck. |
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01-10.-2003, 01:55 AM
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#11 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 552
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I agree about strongly coordinating science and riding - in real time.
One thing I have realized is that it apparently takes a while to really learn your limits, and how to play the conservation/aggression balancing act. If you have the benefit of real time information such as HR, cadence and such when you ride, that is of immeasurable benefit in learning how to tease your limits without putting yourself in the red so to speak (causing you to get dropped). I definitely learned the importance of this in the century I did this past weekend. Had I managed my limits better, I would not have had to ride the second half of it alone (got dropped in the hills as well).
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Originally Posted by Flyer: It is a matter of reading comprehension that you challenged by. |
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01-10.-2003, 04:53 AM
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#12 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 88
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The other important piece here is how you are dealing with the pain factor. Some people back off because they don't want to "blow", not realizing that other riders are in as much pain, but know the ride, when the sprint or climb will end, with relief just around the corner. I can't tell you how many times I was dropped just to find that I was only seconds away from the end of the split.
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01-10.-2003, 08:01 AM
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#13 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On my bike somewhere
Posts: 200
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I had a lot less trouble keeping up in exactly that situation when I got a lighter bike. It's the heavy bike that helped me get strong enough to keep up but it's just physics -- a tractor trailer isn't going to accelerate as fast as a Miata. If you're closing the gap on the hills it sounds like you've got the power, but not the sprint and power riders tend to be in those higher gears where it's harder to accelerate too.
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01-10.-2003, 02:07 PM
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#14 | |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 16
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Quote:
So what do you do when everyone is driving a Miata? |
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02-10.-2003, 04:17 PM
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#15 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Orange, California
Posts: 331
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ciclamino:
At the risk of sounding like many others, we all had to start somewhere. Look at it this way, the joy is in the journey. Guys like Armstrong and LeMond have nowhere to go as riders when they retire except DOWN!!! You won't see them racing Masters 40+ crits!!! The flame that burns brightest, burns fastest. On the other hand, if you are not famous, you can enjoy your riding for a lifetime. Where do you want to be as rider next year, 5 years from now, 15 years from now??? Regardless of your goals, don't stop riding. You have seen big improvements in the last year. Even if your program is not optimal, you have made a lot of progress. You need to start bumping up the intensity of your riding on your hard days. You can start doing 3-5 minute intervals at 90-95%+ of max heart rate, or longer intervals like 10-20-30 minutes at a somewhat slower pace at 85-88-90%+ of max heart rate. Use a cadence meter and keep your legspeed high for these efforts, at least 90 rpm, but preferrably higher, like 95-100-105 rpm. High cadences will make you a better rider and maximally improve your aerobic power compared to mashing a bigger gear at lower cadence. If you don't spin that fast now, learn to do it, no matter how weird or uncomfortable it is. In time, you will be spinning fast and it will feel natural. Start with a few intervals, recover at least a few minutes in between or longer as necessary. The quality of the effort is what is important, not the number. It's better to do 2 intervals properly, than do 8 intervals incorrectly. If you get tired, maintain the quality/speed and drop the number. Stop doing intervals when your performance drops off. Use other cadences as well however. Lower cadences stress legstrength. Do lots of climbing. Once or twice a week (weekend?) ride long, much longer than normal. It's better to ride 80 miles once on Sunday than it is to ride 50 miles Saturday and 50 miles Sunday. Reduce mid-week training to 60-90 minutes and focus on speed/intensity. Generally, do 1-3 high-intensity workouts a week. Build up the intensity and volume over time. Don't do too much too soon. Get more sleep also. If you are going to ride with faster riders, you must have a plan. Usually, that means doing as little work as possible and wheelsucking the whole way. It's not a good way to make friends, but if they understand your plight, you might be cut some slack. On climbs, as Shibumi said, GET TO THE FRONT!!! Most riders who are riding in faster company lack the confidence to ride at the front, yet this is the only place they stand a chance of surviving a climb when the pace is forced. When you are up front, you can slip to the back, and maybe stay with the group. When you are at the back, you will lose contact for good if you fall off the pace. Good luck!!!
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