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04-10.-2007, 03:39 AM
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#1 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 77
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Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
I am preparing to get back on my KK and need to see where I am at. The thought of going TT pace for an hour in my garage makes me not want to go in my garage. How many of you actually go the full hour and if you don't, what have you found works best?
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04-10.-2007, 03:59 AM
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#2 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,506
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
Quote:
-Dave |
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04-10.-2007, 04:55 AM
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#3 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 184
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
I did the full 1-hour test one-and-a-half times. It's tough to find a good route to do a full hour at threshold, nice not to have to change gears. And, like you, the thought of an hour straight in the garage at threshold gets my stomach muscles spasming. 20 minutes will be good enough for me from now on, the 95% rule seems to be right on in my case as well.
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04-10.-2007, 04:59 AM
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#4 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 77
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
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04-10.-2007, 05:14 AM
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#5 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 184
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
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That's right, 95% of 20 minute max power is usually a very close estimation of your 1-hour threshold. The important thing to me is to have a constant way to keep testing myself and comparing my power at different times of year. It doesn't matter if it's 20, 60, or 31 1/2 minutes. 20 minutes is a heck of a lot easier to incorporate into the regular training program then 60 minutes is. Just my own personal preference. |
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04-10.-2007, 05:41 AM
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#6 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 35
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
Last winter and spring, I made 60-90 minute time trial efforts on a trainer a large chunk of my training program. It became a lot easier mentally to do a 60 minute effort after a few weeks. Typically, I would start a few watts under the target and start ramping up around 20 minutes into the effort depending on how it was going. I thought it was great to have real 60 minute efforts as the basis for FTP.
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04-10.-2007, 06:27 AM
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#7 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,172
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
I've done both 20 min TT and 1 hour TT on the KKR and prefer 1 hour. A full hour is more accurate and a good workout plus the intensity is lower. If I get half way through and start to fade I just make it a 1 hour SST ride.
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04-10.-2007, 08:46 AM
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#8 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 992
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
just do your 20min intervals and estimate FTP... the training zones are like 40W wide so what is being ~5-10W off your FTP going to affect your training? i don't even really bother with FTP... i never do 1 hr intervals so why do i need to know what my 1hr power is? a rough estimate is all that's needed to set my training zones.
i do tonnes of 10min and 20min intervals so i think it's a good idea to know what intenesity i can be doing those intervals at, but 1hr power... for what? you can guage improvements just as well by testing a 20min or an average of 2x20 just as well as by doing a 1hr test... i really don't see any reason that anyone would need to know what their FTP is "very accurately" or to do a 1hr test... seems to me people are just using it to compare to others... if your major interest is training there is no reason i can see for this. but even if you want to compare.. why not just compare your 20min power? i don't know... i dont get it? |
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04-10.-2007, 11:47 AM
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#9 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Draper, Utah
Posts: 523
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
Be careful with 95% of 20 min. I believe it actually overestimates my FTP. During this season I have tested myself over different distances and have come to a conclusion that I'm slightly AWC enhanced (inverted V in the power profile chart). So much so that I think my anaerobic capacity plays a role in my 20 min efforts (I've been known to stick with some good climbers for 15-20 min). In fact, both the 95% method as well as 75% of MAP put me roughly at 260W FTP (I'm 55 kg, so cut me some slack
 ). Unfortunately, a few races later (including a 1+ hr hillclimb) my power curve shows me at 245W NP for 1hr. I'm not too familiar with Monod, but I assume it would likewise not account for varying AWC between people. Then again, perhaps I just need to work on my pain threshold  .
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04-10.-2007, 12:26 PM
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#10 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 479
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
Good question by the OP.
I did one one-hour FTP test on the KK last winter, and I'm sure not looking forward to doing it again once it gets cold and snowy outside. I like the 20 minute suggestions. I think I'll do that, or maybe 30 minutes. And if I start to really really like it, maybe a 60 minutes at some point. But I doubt it. |
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04-10.-2007, 01:56 PM
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#11 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,506
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
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-Dave P.S. Monod curves also show why 95% of 20 minute doesn't work for everybody as you've found out. I'm the opposite and my 20 minute power is roughly 98% of my FTP based on Monod curves and real world time trial results. Three percent may not sound like much but for my high point 20 minute power of 310 watts this season it's the difference between an FTP of 295 and 304 watts. Not a big deal for setting training levels but I used that info to pace a 40km TT and I'm glad I didn't try to limit myself to 295 watts for the early going. Last edited by daveryanwyoming : 04-10.-2007 at 02:04 PM. |
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05-10.-2007, 12:42 AM
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#12 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
I used to buy into that 95% of 20 minute number for threshold power. Didn't take long though to see that it was a big overestimate of power, for me at least. My guess is that if you have lots of anerobic capability, then that 95% x 20m gives you too high a number.
Going for one hour straight is a tough one. I mean it would be nice to find a road or course where you could avoid stopping or playing around with gears too much. Then again if you go up a mountain, that seems to make sense except you seem to get weaker as the altitude increases. If you do those 15-30 minute threshold interval workouts, that might give you some clue at least. |
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05-10.-2007, 01:30 AM
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#13 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 974
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
Quote:
many answers to be found here: http://cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/ But I guess you know all those already... I agree it's no point worrying about a watt or two or three when it comes to FTP. In fact, I'd suggest always rounding to the nearest 5W to help avoid obsessing about it too much. In general though for TSS/PMC it IS important to have firstly a consistent FTP method and secondly an accurate one. It's always good to compare training loads apples to apples and if your FTP is 10% different from anothers purely because of the way you determine it ... well that could lead to differences around 20% in TSS (and PMC). That's because of the ^2 factor in TSS of course. As far as actual workouts go, I agree: do what you can with the training level %'s as non-prescriptive guidelines. To the OP: i seldom do full-on hour tests in a state of training fatigue conducive to setting FTP. Since training with power from 2002 onwards, I've established a consistent pattern that my indoor 30MP equals outdoor FTP. So I normally set it from those workouts. Outdoors the terrain is pretty variable so I tend to look at NP for long efforts to make sure FTP is really 'there'.
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05-10.-2007, 03:28 AM
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#14 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 77
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
Thanks for all of the information. I don't feel so bad about not wanting to go for a full hour. I think I will test using 20s, maybe 30s, and just use 95% for a rough estimate. I am actually getting excited to get the KK dusted off and to do some testing. I am hoping for some nice improvement as I get started on my 2nd year of training/racing.
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05-10.-2007, 06:20 AM
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#15 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Draper, Utah
Posts: 523
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Re: Does anyone actually go a full hour to determine FTP?
Quote:
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