Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)

Originally Posted by rmur17

I might have posted this on ST.com but there's been too much rancor re Powercranks over there. Ha ha - perhaps not enough here.

Let me state some assumptions (which I'm 100% prepared to have shot-down or corrected).

1. Powercranks have potential to improve the endurance-oriented performance capability of the hip flexors. Notice I did not say "strengthen"

2. Hip flexor improvement (as per #1) has the potential to improve sustainble power to the cranks by aiding/abetting/relieving the larger knee and hip extensors (loosely the quads, hamstrings and glutes).

3. Despite points #1 and #2, reports I have read re Powercrank use indicate a fairly long adaptation time during which sustainable power suffers to a large extent. IMHO that constitutes a degree of 'detraining' for the prime moves at the expense of the potential improvement above. Or IOW, it seems illogical.

4. Ignoring the kinetic/momentum effects (which can be minimized by adopting a low cadence), on conventional cranks the force during the upstroke is loosely: Leg weight - downstroke force delivered by opposing leg - pullup force on THIS leg.

5. On Powercranks it would be: Leg weight - pullup force on THIS leg (as the PC mechanism eliminates the opposing leg downstroke force aid.

6. One wishes to investigate the potential for improved hip flexor and overall Power(duration) performance without using Powercranks.

Proposed 'method':
1. Adopt a tight aero position - full on aero position or an extreme position on the drops. Basically tighten the hip angle to or beyond where you'd ride to make the hip flexors work as hard as possible.

2. Dedicate workout time normally set aside for low power work to pseudo PC work (PPC). For example, post workout cooldown or perhaps one light day per week. Any time where overall performance does not matter.

I'm suggesting only 15-min per workout or perhaps 1-hr per week.

3. Spend that time riding with a tight hip angle, low cadence and as close as possible as one can to a 'pull-up' style. Very little to no load on the trainer or CT should accomodate this. Focus on using those small muscles to raise the leg and with as little downstroke force as possible.

Summary:
1. Does not take away from core workout time or attempt to modify normal pedal stroke in any way. Gets in all high to medium power work w/o any probable PC induced detraining.

2. Obtains perhaps a large part of the potential PC advantage (Pareto's 80%).

3. Progress in one's normal training on normal cranks Power(duration) will show whether it's beneficial. Well hard to tell for sure but if you're at a plateau for example or have a long history to compare current progress/regress to.

4. Flame away.

I haven't tried this - just got thinking during my cooldown yesterday which I have been doing mostly in the aero position this winter

Originally Posted by acoggan

I think that your assumption #2 is incorrect. Also, I'm not convinced that adopting a very tight hip angle really aids in engaging utilization of the hip flexors - in fact, it probably works against it, since they are now forced to operate at the very lower limit of their length-tension relationship (which, based on the specificity principle, isn't the position in which you'd want to train them anyway...unless, that is, you want to increase your NONsustainable power when in an extreme aero position).

Originally Posted by rmur17

I might have posted this on ST.com but there's been too much rancor re Powercranks over there. Ha ha - perhaps not enough here.

Let me state some assumptions (which I'm 100% prepared to have shot-down or corrected).

1. Powercranks have potential to improve the endurance-oriented performance capability of the hip flexors. Notice I did not say "strengthen"

2. Hip flexor improvement (as per #1) has the potential to improve sustainble power to the cranks by aiding/abetting/relieving the larger knee and hip extensors (loosely the quads, hamstrings and glutes).

3. Despite points #1 and #2, reports I have read re Powercrank use indicate a fairly long adaptation time during which sustainable power suffers to a large extent. IMHO that constitutes a degree of 'detraining' for the prime moves at the expense of the potential improvement above. Or IOW, it seems illogical.

4. Ignoring the kinetic/momentum effects (which can be minimized by adopting a low cadence), on conventional cranks the force during the upstroke is loosely: Leg weight - downstroke force delivered by opposing leg - pullup force on THIS leg.

5. On Powercranks it would be: Leg weight - pullup force on THIS leg (as the PC mechanism eliminates the opposing leg downstroke force aid.

6. One wishes to investigate the potential for improved hip flexor and overall Power(duration) performance without using Powercranks.

Proposed 'method':
1. Adopt a tight aero position - full on aero position or an extreme position on the drops. Basically tighten the hip angle to or beyond where you'd ride to make the hip flexors work as hard as possible.

2. Dedicate workout time normally set aside for low power work to pseudo PC work (PPC). For example, post workout cooldown or perhaps one light day per week. Any time where overall performance does not matter.

I'm suggesting only 15-min per workout or perhaps 1-hr per week.

3. Spend that time riding with a tight hip angle, low cadence and as close as possible as one can to a 'pull-up' style. Very little to no load on the trainer or CT should accomodate this. Focus on using those small muscles to raise the leg and with as little downstroke force as possible.

Summary:
1. Does not take away from core workout time or attempt to modify normal pedal stroke in any way. Gets in all high to medium power work w/o any probable PC induced detraining.

2. Obtains perhaps a large part of the potential PC advantage (Pareto's 80%).

3. Progress in one's normal training on normal cranks Power(duration) will show whether it's beneficial. Well hard to tell for sure but if you're at a plateau for example or have a long history to compare current progress/regress to.

4. Flame away.

I haven't tried this - just got thinking during my cooldown yesterday which I have been doing mostly in the aero position this winter

Originally Posted by rmur17

Geez that was fast. Do you have a "Lance-bot" scanning the web for verboten phrases?

So would you rate it a waste of time compared to plain ole cool-down or a recovery spin?

Last season I had some nasty hip flexor pain in July-August and would love to get rid of that. Increased power would be a side-benefit.

I know my h/f feel worst in a tight aero position so figured that's stressing them most.

Originally Posted by Fday

To train the HF's you actually have to use them.

Frank

Originally Posted by n crowley

Train or use them to do what ?

Originally Posted by Fday

to contract with enough force to fully unweight the pedal on the upstroke 90 times a minute or so for however long your bike races (or rides) last.

Originally Posted by acoggan

What benefit does this provide? Why not just push that trailing leg up using your other leg?

Originally Posted by Fday

to contract with enough force to fully unweight the pedal on the upstroke 90 times a minute or so for however long your bike races (or rides) last. So, that would be 5400 contractions an hour at 90 rpm. 2 or 3 minutes of ILT doesn't hack it. Neither does thinking about it once in awhile.

Frank

Originally Posted by n crowley

It adds the effective weight of your downward leg to the muscle pressure you are applying.

Originally Posted by acoggan

So what? That weight has to be lifted somehow, so what difference does it make which muscles perform the task?

Originally Posted by n crowley

With training it can take place automatically and then no serious effort is involved but you get the advantage of producing the same pedal power for less muscle work in that downward leg (more efficient), or more power for the same muscle work (more effective) pedaling

Originally Posted by acoggan

So what? That weight has to be lifted somehow, so what difference does it make which muscles perform the task?