So, Did Lance Do Dope?

Carrera

I have to be careful with this one as it has the clear potential to trigger off a flame war which is not really what I want to happen.
The situation is I'm reading a very good book on this Ferrari character and his dealings with both Lance and Landis. There is also an interesting account of a conversation Lance had with Greg Lemond on the telephone whereby Lance phoned Lemond and told him he's never have won the TDF himself without EPO. Lemond responded that there was no EPO in his day.
Anyway the book is called Tour De Force. There is a lot of information - quite shocking - on drugs and the medical side of cycling. There is a lot of information on Ferrari but also some investigation of his theories on anaerobic and aerobic physiology - how this was applied to Lance.

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jhuskey

You can read through the thread below and then there are about 2 dozen others on the same subject. 62 pages and 924 post in this one alone.

http://cyclingforums.com/t165153.html

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Carrera

The soapbox seems as dead as a dodo so I figured the topic might liven people up.
Let's just say this, though: Can we seriously believe pro-riders at Lance's level could cycle 6 hours a day as well as compete, naturally?
The Ferrari situation seems to illustrate the fact the top guys need these medics around them for all sorts of reasons. I sometimes think it would be more harmful to try and compete at the top level naturally than it would be to trust Ferrari.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

lwedge

A Tsunami, Buffalo stampede, a flat (both wheels), projectile vomiting, consumption of copious amounts of beer, a tree to fall in the forest (but did it make a sound?), GWB's head to explode during a news conference (Chanys's to explode shortly there after), Limerickman to trade in his Audi for a Dodge Ram 4x4 427Hemi truck, etc., etc., etc......



lw

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Carrera

Shit, I just read some pros have to set their alarm clock for midnight to exercise and speed up their hearts in case they die in their sleep through too slow a heart-rate.
Whenever I read about this stuff, blood transfusions, EPO, corpuscles and the like, I kind of feel faint. Once a nurse tried to inject me and I was terrified - almost passed out.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Wurm

"So, Did Lance Do Dope?"

I would say: yep.

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Carrera

The case "for" is quite strong. There is the alleged heated debate with Greg Lemond on the phone. There is the legal dispute between Lance and his mechanic who claims he found a suspicious product in Lance's flat in Spain. There's the testimony of the masseuse who claimed Lance told her he would do as everyone else does to fix his blood levels. Then you have the testimony of Simeoni who claimed Armstrong threatened to destroy him for outing Ferrari.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Wurm

LA was the US cycling industry's cash cow for 7 years. There was no way those with vested interests were gonna crap on that by pushing to expose their darling.

__________________
"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense."

- John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon)

The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves.

darkboong

Much as I really couldn't give a stuff about Lance doping or not, none of that is conclusive evidence of Lance taking drugs. All of those things would be consistent with Lance going with the flow and trying to keep his head down. In an age and a sport that is so deeply concerned by drugs, being associated with people who peddle drugs would be suicide by the press.

That said his *alleged* manner is somewhat OTT. Maybe he's been having spontaneous surges of Testosterone of late like Floyd.

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Carrera

The book Tour De Force makes a thorough and balanced analysis of the case. It remains neutral. It puts Lance's testimony forward and those of the Irish guy Walsh who made the allegations. In it Lance says:
"That guy's a scumbag. His angle is that he hates me, and I hate him. I'm sorry, I just hate the guy, he's a little troll."
What shocked me is he also called his rivals a "bunch of chumps" and had a go at Ullrich for preparing indoors on a stationary trainer.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

robbowatson

I've read this book as well, and anything about Lance doping in this isn't really touched upon as he doesn't want it written about-suspicious eh??? Though we all have to remember he has to take testosterone amonst other things so that he can function properly cos of his Cancer. It is possible that he is amongst that 0.7% of people who are physiological freaks-he could have taken up any sport and been successful!

In short, do I think Lance doped-no idea though it's more likley than not that he did than didn't....

2FAST4U

This thread needs to close....This topic has been debated to many times to mention.. Carrera, I'm suprised you would bother with this...

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