Effects of censorship on reporting of Israel/Hezbollah fighting.

darkboong

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McDreamy

● And Jonathan Cook, writing in the International Herald Tribune for expressing his understanding and appreciation of Palestinian terrorism as the 'surest way to get their struggle noticed.' (The IHT was also caught altering New York Times articles to make Israel look worse, and Palestinian terrorists look better.)

http://www.honestreporting.com/arti...Awards_2004.asp

Or try camera.org and you'll see Jonathan Cook's true colors.

If you actually read all of Jonathan Cook's article much of it is conjecture.

DO NOT believe everything you see or read. Just a little bit of critical thinking. It amazes me the standards that Israel is held to; not the fact that it's held to standards, but that it's held to higher standards than any other country in the world. Yet, Israel meets many of these standards. By no means do I mean to imply that Israel is perfect, like other countries around the world it has its issues too. Compare Israel to it's neighbors and it sparkle crystal clean in comparison. But Jesus know the history and know the present. People just keep putting out this dribble. As for the current conflict, history will judge. Everyone jumps to conclusions right off the bat. If Israel is so horrible, so mighty, and so all-powerful why has it not wiped Lebanon, Syria, and Iran off the map? Restraint. Israel is fighting a tactical and calculated war in order to secure itself. It sickens me to hear that Israel is overreacting. If France suddenly decided to start shooting missles into Great Britain and crossed over the channel with soldiers and killed some British soldiers would Britain sit still and say, "Please sir may I have another." Or would the U.S. watch their southern border be attacked? No, they would go to full scale war to defend their people and land! Yet Israel is supposed to sit back and pretend everything is okay. Explain to me why?

McDreamy

Darkboong,

Why do you hate Israel so much? I went through your posts and there is not a single good word on the country. Do you believe it and the people there to be so awful? Are you from the region? Are you anti-semitic?

darkboong

I don't hate Israel. I hate what it does.



Weird, because I specifically have mentioned some good stuff. Maybe you just ignored the bits that didn't fit with your world view.



The state of Israel *is* truely awful.



Nope.



No. I want equal rights for Palestinians, some of whom are Semitic.

Are you Anti-Palestinian ?

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darkboong

However, the stuff about the barracks being next to hospitals is true. Tough titty if you don't like the facts of the matter.



Tosh.



It fails on the not shooting children front quite spectacularly.



What, like Lebanon ?



Because Israel's military is not infallable, although it has succesfully destroyed Lebanon in a couple of weeks. Well done, very gentle of you.



Rubbish.



By attacking UNIFIL observation posts for example. I don't think that you have any idea what kind of feeling that is going to create in Lebanon. Those people are very unlikely to forgive or forget after this particular escapade.



Throw up, it's not my carpet.



That wouldn't be the same situation, because the rockets came *after* the IDF had already struck Beirut and killed over 20 civillians in Lebanon. It's all ifs and buts, and you can't even get the analogy correct because you won't acknowledge that Israel was the side that dropped the big one on civillians first.



Why should I bother ? You can't even get your analogies straight.

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McDreamy

And where were all the fathers of these children? Oh yeah, they were outside the building firing rockets!

Oh you mean the farce of a democracy that divides there government according to a census over 30 years old and that actually wields no power, since we know Syria still pulls the strings. Not to mention that they have absolutely no control over the south.

The infrastructure has been destroyed, but the IDF has been putting only small groups of troops into the area. There is no overwhelming force on the ground.


Yes, the UNIFIL observation post that had Hezbollah fighters firing rockets from all around it confirmed by one of those UNIFIL soldiers in an email prior to his death. Have you not seen photos of UN flags flying right along side the Hezbollah yellow flags. Oh, and which population was it that attacked UN offices?


Blah! Too much garbage makes me puke.



Hah! You can't even get the facts straight of the current situation, or do you just choose to ignore that Hezbollah crossed into Israel against all of international law and against UN resolution 1559 after Israel had unilaterally withdrawn 6 years ago and kidnapped and killed Israeli soldiers without provocation.

I think my head hurts, because it's difficult to explain things to a brick wall.

McDreamy

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20...huffpost/026467

http://www.noniedarwish.com


Brigitte Gabriel Speech at Duke University

Remarks of Brigitte Gabriel, delivered at the Duke University Counter Terrorism Speak-Out
I'm proud and honoured to stand here today, as a Lebanese speaking for Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East. As someone who was raised in an Arabic country, I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world.

I was raised in Lebanon, where I was taught that the Jews were evil, Israel was the devil, and the only time we will have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea.

When the Moslems and Palestinians declared Jihad on the Christians in 1975, they started massacring the Christians, city after city. I ended up living in a bomb shelter underground from age 10 to 17, without electricity, eating grass to live, and crawling under sniper bullets to a spring to get water.

It was Israel who came to help the Christians in Lebanon. My mother was wounded by a Moslem's shell, and was taken into an Israeli hospital for treatment. When we entered the emergency room, I was shocked at what I saw. There were hundreds of people wounded, Moslems, Palestinians, Christians, Lebanese, and Israeli soldiers lying on the floor. The doctors treated everyone according to their injury. They treated my mother before they treated the Israeli soldier lying next to her. They didn't see religion, they didn't see political affiliation, they saw people in need and they helped.

>For the first time in my life I experienced a human quality that I know my culture would not have shown to their enemy. I experienced the values of the Israelis, who were able to love their enemy in their most trying moments. I spent 22 days at that hospital. Those days changed my life and the way I believe information, the way I listen to the radio or to television. I realized I was sold a fabricated lie by my government, about the Jews and Israel, that was so far from reality. I knew for fact that, if I was a Jew standing in an Arab hospital, I would be lynched and thrown over to the grounds, as shouts of joy of Allah Akbar, God is great, would echo through the hospital and the surrounding streets.

I became friends with the families of the Israeli wounded soldiers: one in particular Rina, her only child was wounded in his eyes.

One day I was visiting with her, and the Israeli army band came to play national songs to lift the spirits of the wounded soldiers. As they surrounded his bed playing a song about Jerusalem, Rina and I started crying. I felt out of place and started waking out of the room, and this
mother holds my hand and pulls me back in without even looking at me.
She holds me crying and says: "it is not your fault". We just stood there crying, holding each other's hands.

What a contrast between her, a mother looking at her deformed 19 year old only child, and still able to love me the enemy, and between a Moslem mother who sends her son to blow himself up to smithereens just to kill a few Jews or Christians.

The difference between the Arabic world and Israel is a difference in values and character. It's barbarism verses civilization. It's democracy verses dictatorship. It's goodness verses evil.

Once upon a time, there was a special place in the lowest depths of hell for anyone who would intentionally murder a child. Now, the intentional murder of Israeli children is legitimized as Palestinian "armed struggle".

However, once such behaviour is legitimized against Israel, it is legitimized every where in the world, constrained by nothing more than the subjective belief of people who would wrap themselves in dynamite and nails for the purpose of killing children in the name of god.

Because the Palestinians have been encouraged to believe that murdering innocent Israeli civilians is a legitimate tactic for advancing their cause, the whole world now suffers from a plague of terrorism, from Nairobi to New York, from Moscow to Madrid, from Bali to Beslan.

They blame suicide bombing on "desperation of occupation". Let me tell you the truth. The first major terror bombing committed by Arabs against the Jewish state occurred ten weeks before Israel even became independent.

On Sunday morning, February 22, 1948, in anticipation of Israel’s independence, a triple truck bomb was detonated by Arab terrorists on Ben Yehuda Street, in what was then the Jewish section of Jerusalem. Fifty-four people were killed, and hundreds were wounded. Thus, it is obvious that Arab terrorism is caused not by the "desperation" of "occupation", but by the VERY THOUGHT of a Jewish state.

So many times in history in the last 100 years, citizens have stood by and done nothing, allowing evil to prevail. As America stood up against and defeated communism, now it is time to stand up against the terror of religious bigotry and intolerance. It's time to all stand up, and support and defend the state of Israel, which is the front line of the war against terrorism.

darkboong

I wouldn't take the word of a bigot like yourself. Produce hard evidence that all the children's fathers were militants. Presumption of guilt by race is racist.



The government left behind by Israel's 30 years of invasion. Israel made Lebanon what it is today. If Israeli soldiers hadn't been there killing people Hezbollah wouldn't even exist.



No, but the country is practically gutted, and now littered with UXO.



The UNIFIL report makes no mention of firing by Hezbollah around the patrol base in the Khiyam sector. It does mention that they had been fired upon on 14 prior occasions that day. The UNIFIL commander had been in contact with the IDF the entire afternoon asking them to stop shooting them.



As if that wasn't bad enough they shelled the rescue operation.



You and the IDF think that it is OK to shoot unarmed non-combatants. I don't. Why were the IDF so adamant to destroy the position ?



What about it ? Did the crowd kill anyone ? No. Did they shell the UN building for 6 hours ? No. Did they cease and desist with no casualties ? Yes. The IDF kept on attacking until they turned the UN patrol base to rubble, and they shelled the rescue team as well.



Stop talking garbage then, if you can't do that wear a bib.



I haven't ignored that at all. Although the report goes that the Israeli soldiers were captured as they *retreated* back across the Lebanese border after a raid. Regardless, this kind of nonsense has been going on continually, I don't think either side has right on their side, they are as bad as each other.



Sure, let's make that happen after Israel has honored UN Resolution 242.



... So you are aware that Israel has attacked Lebanon repeatedly ...



That is the problem, it wasn't an unprovoked attack. In case you missed it Israel and Hezbollah have been at war since Israel invaded Lebanon and killed 10,000 Lebanese. Most of it the fighting has occurred around the Shebaa Farms area, and I suspect that it could have been stopped quite easily by Israel giving the land back to Lebanon.



Facts have a habit of smacking you in the face if you persist in ignoring them.

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darkboong

Quite clearly she is a gullable maniac, and she sure as hell doesn't speak for the Lebanese folks I know. For the record practically *ALL* of her speech is conjecture. I don't understand what point you are trying to make by publishing a bigotted hysterical rant against Arabs and Muslims. There are lots of hysterical bigots out there all of whom have their world vision that they feel morally obligated to inflict on the rest of the world.

By contrast :


That was not a unique gesture either ...



You choose to promote a vision of a extremism and violence, I choose to promote a vision of mutal respect for life and co-operation.

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McDreamy

To bad the Shaaba farms never belonged to Lebanon, but to Syria. Are you saying the Lebanon is a puppet of Syria...ding ding ding!

UN resolution 242 has nothing to do with Lebanon, but with pre-1967 borders with Jordan, Syria, and Egypt.

Someone like you calling me a bigot is laughable...it's like the pot calling the kettle black. Enough, I've realized you can continue to read and believe the junk you read on the internet but at least you should know what things are about. Enough is enough. I'm resigned to just say you will believe what you will and I'm not going to convince you otherwise. Go to Israel and then visit Syria, Lebanon, and Iran and maybe you will gain new perspective.

darkboong

Nope. I'm saying that Lebanon and Hezbollah want that land and it's Syria's to give away.



You stated that Hezbollah/Lebanon have not complied with 1559, Israel have not complied with resoltuion 242 for nearly 40 years. As far as I see it you have no grounds for complaint with Hezbollah and Lebanon, unless of course you are a bigot.



Laugh away Bigot Boy.



Lebanese and Palestinian lives are *not* Junk to me.



After you. You can start with the Gaza strip.

It is entirely possible that we would not even be having this discussion at all if Israel et al had complied with UN Resolution 242. Palestinians would be living in a de facto 2-state solution (the PLO specifically set this out as a goal), and Israel might not have invaded Lebanon, creating Hezbollah, in the first place... Oh and Shebba Farms would still be Syrian of course, removing one of the pretexts for violence that exists today.

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Carrera

"Just a little bit of critical thinking. It amazes me the standards that Israel is held to; not the fact that it's held to standards, but that it's held to higher standards than any other country in the world."

Absolutely. That's the point I've been making for the last couple of years. The only comparison I can make between Israel's war and a former event would be Chechnya. I do recall the reaction of the West when Yeltsin sent troops into Chechnya and Clinton was urging Russia to negotiate. There was little support for Russia back then which is why Russia's near refusal to support Israel now amazes me.
I mean, wow! Israel has allowed the Red Cross and the U.N. into the zone of conflict, knowing the IDF would be demonised by the media. Russia simply allowed nobody into Chechnya. In fact, I knew a guy whose parents had been shot by Russian troops in Chechnya and I heard of cases of rape and torture.
Then, you take a look at the U.S. and the way they dealt with some Iraqi POW's. Could you imagine the uproar there would be if the IDF stripped Hezbolla fighters, had Israeli women hold them with dog-leashes and take pics to be published on the internet?
Nope, the IDF may be heavy-handed but it's professional. There is no rape that I know of by IDF troops in these villages. War is just war.
What really stuns me, though, is the hypocrisy of the British in this case. This is a nation that has Anglos all over Australia and Africa (including the Falklands) yet they constantly complain about Jews being in Israel, as if Jews were the only race on Earth to be involved in a land dispute.
All in all. Well said!

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Carrera

The guy is right. This is the most sensible thing I've read on this forum for years.
What I keep asking you to explain on many occasions, Darkboong, is why you discriminate against Jewish people and expect them to meet standards your own country doesn't meet.
Britain throughout history has been renowned for slavery of black people, colonisation of the Third World, bombing Iraq before the Americans ever did and a whole variety of wrongs.
What gives the British press the right to judge a tiny country like Israel (that never enslaved black people and chained them to ships to die of heat and dehydration).
Look at Israel's human rights record and compare it to your own country and let's take it from there. Or try asking any black person whether he (or she) imagines Israel has as much to be guilty about as the British.
There is a saying somewhere about casting the mote in your own eye out before you criticize the speck in somebody else's.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Carrera

"Enough, I've realized you can continue to read and believe the junk you read on the internet but at least you should know what things are about."

Spot on! He searches Google for propaganda he can use to build his case which happens to fit in with his own bigotry. He never produces any actual history texts or essays a major gripe.
He would certainly stand on a soap-box in New York to blast the U.S. but he wouldn't dare go to Iran and take a poke at radical Islam. He believes what he wants to believe.

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