Cadence training

OldNickToo

Long story

I need some hints on teaching cadence.

I am trying to help my wife learn to ride a bike. I am back on after a longish break, although I rode everywhere heaps as a kid (Long time ago) and for a while on the road as an adult maybe 10 years back.

We are now riding MTBs mostly quite offroad. Some of it pretty tough; _real_ singletrack, steep hills up and down and rocks/roots. We do between 1/2 and 1 hour per day, averaging (now) about 10Km/hour.

My wife has hardly ever ridden a bike. She was one of four kids, two of them brothers, with one bike between them. Do the math, and think of the genders! <G>

She is a strong woman, with powerful but underused legs. We are taking it easy as she has been largely sedentary, and middle age is upon us.

Our _current_ project is to get her cadence to a reasonable level.

I am probably a little slow, running at around 60-80 on a nice down slope when I am just ticking it over, with excursions up to 80-90 and maybe 100 on the tougher bits. But I argue that there is no "right" cadence, just a reasonable range.

Just to check, I have measured myself at 155 PPM for a period of over 30 seconds, without any bounce or slip, so I can at least "walk the walk".

She is "comfortable" at a lower cadence, but was tending to get _way_ under 60 PPM. Watching her and doing "1 1000-2 1000" as I ride behind, I can see 45-50. So I bought a cadence-enabled bike computer. She is really struggling to get up to 80 PPM and was indeed often pedalling at 45 PPM. She is now pedalling above 60 PPM when she watches it, but struggles to get to 80PPM, or even above 70.

My suggestion was that she concentrate on cadence on the smooth bits, concentrating on staying on the bike in the tougher bits! I am not an ogre.<G>. She is trying really hard, and can tend to obsess, sometimes to the detriment of her own safety<G>

My idea is to ask her to ride to 75-85, even though it's not comfortable, when we do a cadence session over say ten minutes of a ride. The idea is that it should in the end make her comfortable with the higher cadence, and she can find a comfort zone that is not way down in the 40's. The rest of the ride is usually for enjoyment, and she's free to do as she pleases, train or not.

However, when she starts approaching 75 PPM, she starts "bouncing" on the seat. I am trying to train that out as well, because that seems to be the root of all the trouble. In the end her foot slips, or more like floats, off the pedal (no clips or catches at present!!). I believe that this is caused by two
things. (1) She sits on the saddle too much, relying entirely on the push _down_ on the pedal to keep her feet on. The up/backstroke "can look after itself" at nice low cadence. (2) She is pumping down on the downstroke, again letting the downward leg force the upward leg to stay on the pedal. You can see this happening. Of course all this fails when the cadence goes up and there is less "grind" to work against.

I am trying to think about what I do, and describe it to her. Sometimes I feel as if I am just boasting! <G>, but that's not it.

So I am trying to get her to learn to:
* "stand" on the pedals a bit, rather than leaving her bum firmly planted, thus causing both feet to plant a little harder. It feels counter-productive, as you are "working your legs against each other". So I sympathise with her.
- This is part of the overall idea as well of course, as it's good for the bum and spine, and also makes your body more responsive to mishaps.
- I am trying to stress that it's not a "stand" so much as an easing of the bum up onto the pedals.
- She is finding this tough, because she "clenches" and wears herself out.
* use her brakes on slight downhill runs, to stop the bike running away and leaving her feet with nowhere to go.
- again, she is afraid to let go the handlebars enough to grab the brake levers with the two needed
fingers.
* try to practice on a moderate uphill, not downhill, to prevent just such a runaway.

I read that just about all beginners have exactly all of the above trouble. So I am very careful to point this out, and in no way make her feel that she is personally lacking.

We have experimented with saddle heights, and now she rides so that her shoe is flat with the pedal at 6 o'clock and her foot on it.

She does have a fairly soft saddle. try the original harder one? (that _would_ help get the bum up!<G>)

So I need any hints to teach her. All help appreciated. Amazingly we have not had one argument yet! <G>

OldNickToo

I spose _everybody_ must have trouble with this one, then.

gclark8

I suggest starting her off indoors, I did 12 months indoor training before I rode a bike: http://www.trysport.com.au/services.htm It's just down the hill.

__________________
Cheers,
George.

OldNickToo

http://www.trysport.com.au/services.htm

Well, I could try, sport (ark ark..get it?), but I don't think that suggestion would go down well. She's very distinctly not a gym junkie <G>...mind you, it would take that strain out of our relationship....

Actually I have done some learning myself, I have lowered the bars for her a little (she has shorter legs and thus had a lower saddle than mine) using the shims they allow you on the Yukon. I have moved them the whole maybe 1" allowed, so the difference is obvious. That, combined with the morning's practice and a break until the arvo, seemed to make a huge difference. I will try various settings over the next few days.

Actually she and I were walking ghe dog in a Perth park on Saturday. I had my camera but I was too slow. This guy went past on a road bike, drop bars etc, with the saddle _right_ on the frame, grinding at maybe 30 PPM. His bum was so low, he was nearly sitting _up_ to the drops. I said to my wife "Now _that_ is the way not to ride!"

Maybe he was power training? <G>

ncc74656m

Believe it or not, I used to ride so low that by the time I started on a regular course and got straightened out by a bike mechanic, he was shocked to see how strong my legs were (and how much damage I did to the crank!).

Yeah, messed up the bike pretty good, too. So anyway, I wound up getting a new bike, and that was that. Now I know how to ride at the correct height, and I haven't ridden in a year and a half!

OldNickToo

Wot....'fraid of heights then? <G>

ncc74656m

You could say that.

In all seriousness, though, yeah, I'm looking to get back into it this year, hoping to be a heavy biker.

peet9471

Try tilting her saddle down slightly in the front. Don't tell her, just gradually move her foward off the back part of the saddle. That should get her off her comfort zone and make her realize that she has to get her cadence up just a bit. 75 may be too much but I would like to see at least 60

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Archibald

i'd make a couple of suggestions;

- think "circles" when pedalling to help her obtain a smooth pedaling 'stroke'. the smoother the 'stroke' or 'cycle', the easier it will be to be at a higher cadence.
- get the bike fitted properly to her. no mucking around with seat or handlebar heights, get it professionally done, and it'll help with her efficiency of pedalling as well as comfort and ease of the ride. riding should be easier for her as she won't be fighting her bike setup as well as the puzzles on the trails.
- perhaps both go to a mtb coaching clinic to help with the basics. you mention that your relationship could be strained, and she'll take onboard far more from a professional coach.
- then just ride and enjoy it...

hope it goes well!!

Hask12

Since she's never ridden before why not just let her ride for a while. Hitting her with all that stuff from day one will probably turn her off to riding altogether. Take her out and let her just enjoy the scenery and experience the fun of ridding. All that other stuff can come later, if she cares.

cwebs

I'm with you. I reckon it's great she's giving it a go in the first place. If she's to stick with it, it's got to be fun not an obligation.