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"Sweet Spot"

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Old 29-12.-2005, 03:47 AM   #1
whoawhoa
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Default "Sweet Spot"
Interesting chart made by Andy Coggan-http://www.rongilcreast.com/ACoggan_New_Training_Levels_chart.htm

Think this means I should taper off the high-level z4 work and do more high l3/lowl4 stuff?
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Old 29-12.-2005, 03:57 AM   #2
BlueJersey
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I think the chart is saying that the closer to your threshold power (or above it), the less duration you can hold???

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoawhoa
Interesting chart made by Andy Coggan-http://www.rongilcreast.com/ACoggan_New_Training_Levels_chart.htm

Think this means I should taper off the high-level z4 work and do more high l3/lowl4 stuff?
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Old 29-12.-2005, 04:06 AM   #3
whoawhoa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJersey
I think the chart is saying that the closer to your threshold power (or above it), the less duration you can hold???

Well, that's part of it, but I was talking about the curve marked "overal training effect (increase in threshold power" where the top of the curve is around the border between l3 and l4.
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Old 29-12.-2005, 04:19 AM   #4
Squint
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Default Re: "Sweet Spot"
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoawhoa
Interesting chart made by Andy Coggan-http://www.rongilcreast.com/ACoggan_New_Training_Levels_chart.htm

Think this means I should taper off the high-level z4 work and do more high l3/lowl4 stuff?


There was a fair amount of discussion about this on the wattage list awhile back and I think that was the general idea.

After a little inadvertent time off, I changed my threshold training from doing 2x20s all-out twice a week and one L5 workout to one tempo ride and two 3x20 workouts. I don't do the 3x20s as hard as I used to do the 2x20s. Basically, I'm trading some intensity for some volume and less recovery needed.
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Old 29-12.-2005, 09:22 AM   #5
whoawhoa
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Default Re: "Sweet Spot"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squint
There was a fair amount of discussion about this on the wattage list awhile back and I think that was the general idea.

After a little inadvertent time off, I changed my threshold training from doing 2x20s all-out twice a week and one L5 workout to one tempo ride and two 3x20 workouts. I don't do the 3x20s as hard as I used to do the 2x20s. Basically, I'm trading some intensity for some volume and less recovery needed.

Do you feel this is working better? I'm considering doing a similar swap. I have plenty of time to rack up 16-18 hour weeks.
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Old 29-12.-2005, 10:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: "Sweet Spot"
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoawhoa
Interesting chart made by Andy Coggan-http://www.rongilcreast.com/ACoggan_New_Training_Levels_chart.htm

Think this means I should taper off the high-level z4 work and do more high l3/lowl4 stuff?

Here's a Pez article to go along with the graph.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/defau...llstory&id=3232

Earlier this season I did 7 weeks of "sweet spot" training and increased my 20 min power 6.5%. I progressed from 60-90 minute intervals over the 7 weeks.
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Old 29-12.-2005, 10:17 AM   #7
whoawhoa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorman
Here's a Pez article to go along with the graph.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/defau...llstory&id=3232

Earlier this season I did 7 weeks of "sweet spot" training and increased my 20 min power 6.5%. I progressed from 60-90 minute intervals over the 7 weeks.

Interesting. It covers a pretty wide area, so I think I may try to do a variety of training that falls in this area. 60-90 minute intervals as well as 3ish hr tempo rides and maybe the 3x20's squint mentioned. I may do 1 set of full-power 2x20's after my rest day each week.
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Old 29-12.-2005, 10:17 AM   #8
BlueJersey
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Default Re: "Sweet Spot"
Wait a minute, that's just a new way to say the same thing about doing long base miles during the off season??? With some occassional L3 and L4 stuff thrown in??? With more emphasis on L4 stuff now with increased duration??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorman
Here's a Pez article to go along with the graph.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/defau...llstory&id=3232

Earlier this season I did 7 weeks of "sweet spot" training and increased my 20 min power 6.5%. I progressed from 60-90 minute intervals over the 7 weeks.
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Old 29-12.-2005, 10:48 AM   #9
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No, it's not. They are fairly hard rides 3-4 times a week and in L3/L4. Not L1/2 for hours on end with some L3/4 sprinkled in.

Adding some intensity to traditional base training doesn't make base training effective. It just makes it less ineffective.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueJersey
Wait a minute, that's just a new way to say the same thing about doing long base miles during the off season??? With some occassional L3 and L4 stuff thrown in??? With more emphasis on L4 stuff now with increased duration??
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Old 29-12.-2005, 10:52 AM   #10
Squint
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It's only been a week. After my 1.5 weeks off, I rode L1/2 for a few days, then a tempo ride, and then lower L4 3x20s. Right now I'm at 95% my best 20 min power. I'll be sure to share my experience a few weeks from now.

So far, I like the approach and hope it's at least as effective as my old routine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whoawhoa
Do you feel this is working better? I'm considering doing a similar swap. I have plenty of time to rack up 16-18 hour weeks.
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Old 29-12.-2005, 12:11 PM   #11
whoawhoa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squint
No, it's not. They are fairly hard rides 3-4 times a week and in L3/L4. Not L1/2 for hours on end with some L3/4 sprinkled in.

Adding some intensity to traditional base training doesn't make base training effective. It just makes it less ineffective.

Exactly. This is more of the Lydiard approach, solid amounts of miles at quality intensity.
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Old 03-01.-2006, 11:06 AM   #12
SoFlaPedaler
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Default Re: "Sweet Spot"
What a cool chart! It would mean a heckuva lot more to me if I knew what my "functional threshold power" was. How do I know if I am at my functional threshold power?
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Old 03-01.-2006, 05:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFlaPedaler
What a cool chart! It would mean a heckuva lot more to me if I knew what my "functional threshold power" was. How do I know if I am at my functional threshold power?


You buy a powermeter like an SRM or a powertap.
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Old 03-01.-2006, 10:04 PM   #14
SoFlaPedaler
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Default Re: "Sweet Spot"
Clearly I'll need a power meter. Been trying to decide which one.
A better question would have been: What is the definition of functional threshold power? Is it the maximum power level that you can sustain for relatively long periods?
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Old 03-01.-2006, 11:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: "Sweet Spot"
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFlaPedaler
Clearly I'll need a power meter. Been trying to decide which one.
A better question would have been: What is the definition of functional threshold power? Is it the maximum power level that you can sustain for relatively long periods?

1 hr max power
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