Did Bush Patronise Gelfdof?

Carrera

Elton John recently blasted Live Aid Two as a bit of a flop. I'm inclined to agree with him. It was good to see rock stars try to increase public awareness of world poverty but I think Geldof was a bit naive assuming Junior was going to take him seriously.
To me, it seemed Geldof had allowed Live Aid One to go to his head. He seemed to have this idea that just because Bush planned to tune into the rock concert, he would automatically change direction over Africa.
Maybe it's just me but I didn't stomach this idea of a bunch of mega rich pop stars (who live in luxury) lecturing us on Africa. I saw pics of Bush sitting alongside Geldof or Blair and wondered if he was being taken for a mug. As Bianca Jagger pointed out, does Gedof realise how many people have died as a direct result of Bush policy (including U.S. casualties)? Was it simply a good opportunity for Bush and Blair to be photographed and given a public image face lift?
I think maybe Lance Armstrong would have been listened to more over issues such as Africa. Maybe the pop stars who have big egos will be jolted back to earth?

Carrera

"SIR MICK JAGGER's ex-wife BIANCA has hit out at stars such as BONO and SIR BOB GELDOF for using "hype" to highlight poverty.
Jagger, a dedicated human rights campaigner herself, is concerned the public are oblivious of the many unsung heroes involved in making the effort work - as they are blinded by the fame of the LIVE 8 figureheads.
She says, "Celebrities need to be cautious about using sound bites and hype and spin when we are dealing with issues as complex and overwhelming as this."
On Bush, Biance jagger writes:
"Perhaps Americans should take a closer look at his record in Texas. Let us recap.
During George W. Bush's 5-year Texas governor ship 152 men and women were put to death, almost twice the number killed in any other state in 2 entire decades.
4 juvenile offenders were executed, more than in any other jurisdiction in the world during this time and in clear violation of international law.
Even China, which executes more people than any other nation, stops short of executing children that commit crimes."

Carrera

The intention wasn't to discuss the various views of Bush. This has already been threshed out.
Instead, the question rises as to whether the rock stars simply misjudged on a huge scale. Yes, Bush tuned into Live Aid but I suspect that's all he did. It's a case of the pop stars kind of naively assuming the world was going to change, given the record of current political leaders. Not that some attempt at highlighting the problem is better than nothing.
So, Elton John has expressed disappointment and Bianca is probably saying, "Told you so!"
Bianca also suggested that Geldof trying to somehow "illuminate" Junior was a dead duck from the very start.
So, where does the cause for world poverty go from here is the 64,000 dollar question.

Colorado Ryder

This is misleading. But why let truth get in the way of political views. Texas state law says that the governor of Texas can only grant a pardon or clemency if the State Board of Clemency recommends it. In the 30 years that the death penalty has existed in Texas the board has recommended clemency twice. Once when Bush was governor and once when Ann Richards was governor. Neither granted the pardon. Isn't it interesting that no one mentions the 89 death sentences carried out when Ann Richards was governor for 4 years?

wolfix

Good post..... Another interesting fact I find interesting is this ..... In America the Democrat counties of each state put more people in prison per capita then Republican counties.
I do not mind when pop stars and celebrities use their fame to raise money and awareness. But they show how far they are out of touch when they think people are going to follow the agenda that they spout off about. The situation in Africa is a horrible thing. There is not a soul that can see what is happening over there and not feel bad. But horrible things are happening all the time. An individual can only help so much.
I believe if a person takes care of the 6 blocks around him , then the world is on a track to a better place.
The nations leaders are elected to make the correct decisions for those who elected him. Pop stars must realize that we love them as enertainers and appreciate the skills they have that do so. But they also must realize that the circus uses monkeys to enertain us too, but we don't ask the monkeys for advice on how to run our life. Pop stars must realize that they are in the same business as trained circus monkeys and should act accordingly.

Carrera

As a secular person I believe in protecting the public from dangerous criminals but I don't consider I have the right to decide who lives or dies. The Christian Bible is also absolutely clear that, in no circumstances, does a so-called believer have the right to kill. I could list a dozen parables that illustrate that point.
Put simply, there is no way in this world you can square Bush being a Christian and condoning death penalties.
If Bush argues he's justified in killing on account of what criminals have done, he should have a chat with St Paul of Tarsus who converted to Christianity after having killed many Christians during the persecution in the first century A.D.
By Bush's standards, St Paul wouldn't have been spared to become a Biblical writer.
No way can Bush base himself on the Bible. His religion is a sham. People pervert religion for their own ends.

Carrera

I agree with you. Some of the pop stars were very sincere but there was a lot of ego involved and I think they didn't wind up being taken seriously by politicians. It was something and a turn for the better but it's a tough pill to swallow when Madonna preaches about Africa. Phew, it's tough!

Colorado Ryder

Well you still don't get the point. Bush as governor of Texas didn't put anyone on death row. A court and a jury did that. Maybe you missed the part about Texas state law stating that the governor can only grant a pardon if the State Board recommends one. So in all cases except one Texas state law ties the governors hands so he cannot issue a pardon. Or was it convenience you missed that part.
As for not thinking you don't have the right to decide who lives or dies, it is no surprise to see you siding with the murderers etc. Who had the right to decide if the victims lived or died?

MountainPro

There are alternatives to the death penalty for murderers.

'But why let truth get in the way of political views'. or why sell out your religious beliefs for money? Surely if Bush was such a great Christian he would feel morally obligated to either change the laws of Texas or stand down as governer. Being a good christain and following the Bible is not compatible with the Governorship of a state that plays God with peoples lives.

This isnt about the victims...the death penalty wont bring them back nor will it console the families. If it does go someway to consoling them then they had better re-examine what it means to be a Christian. Forgiveness is the key as Christ forgave those who put him to death.

Its not about the protection of the public either. As a deterrant, it doesnt work.

Geldof can go and stick his head up his arse for all i care. He did good work on LiveAid in 85 but siding with Bush right now makes him a despicable character. He should wipe the blood from his hands and redeem himself with the general public while there is still time.

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wolfix

In your post you make the general assumption that the general public is not behind Bush. In America , it was the general public that voted him in. And he won the election in a pretty convincing way. And Bush's job is to look after the interests of those people that voted him in. And the death penalty is not much of an issue here.
There are people running around worried that Bush is not popular with people in other countries. He is voted in to look after American interests 1st above all others. I want him to be concerned with my needs and my neighbors, not the needs of anyone outside the boundries of this country.Unless the two are the same.
However, that does not mean that he should over run other nations civil rights either.
Today in my town we had a small gathering of people that wanted to apologize for America's bombing of Japan during WW2. Of course, later when I questioned them as to if Japan should also apologize for the bombing of Pearl Harbour and the cruelty Japan displayed in the war , they answered "America deserved it." Funny....
This is a cycling forum and I know this is the soapbox section. But in other parts of the forum during the TDF Lance Armstrong was constantly being attacked for everything he did, said, or thought. I believe it was mainly because he was American. I see America being attacked in some of the same ways. America has it's problems. And we have our fair share of the jerks in the world, but I never see anyone wanting to leave. And yet, our borders are manned trying to keep people out.

MountainPro

Hi Wolfix,

Geldof is very well known in the UK for his charity organisation. The general public i was talking about was the British since Geldof is mostly known in the UK. The general public isnt behind Bush. 70% of the British people do not support Bush's war on Iraq and the muslim world. Sorry if i misled you.

I am glad that Bush does look after America as a No1 priority. That is his job and youre right, this shouldnt be done to the detriment of other nations but sometimes that is the case. In order to make America safe other nations have to be destroyed. The American public is comfortable with that idea despite lack of evidence of the ability of the nation to launch a sustained attack on US soil. Perhaps America should defend her borders from inside her own country.

Most countries in the world have manned & patrolled borders to keep out illegal immigrants, this isnt just an American custom. In America however, people know they can cross the border and find work and eventually become a citizen after several years without a single question. This is a failure of your government. I have seen this happen.

The attack on Pearl Harbor was a terrible act of war and Hiroshima/Nagasaki atomic bombs were also terrible.

I personally dont buy the crap about the need for dropping the bombs on Japan. We get told they sped up the surrender of Japan. Who knows if this is true for sure? More people would have died if we had launched a land attack? We will never know. I will not justify it. As for America deserving it, then no i wouldnt say that is the case with me and i dont believe that Hiroshima is a fair retaliation for Pearl Harbor no more that the destruction of Afganistan/Iraq was justified for 9/11.

It is true that a lot of people hate Lance because he is American. But a lot of people i know admire him for his achievements. I dont know if this is a fault with non-Americans for not liking him for unfounded reasons or if it is the fault of Americans for building a hostile reputation (of which lance is a great exponent)....perhaps you could discuss that here...

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Carrera

With respect to societies that resemble modern America and the politicians who are elected in these states, I found a very good description, written by Plato. This is how he would describe Bush (viewed as "tyrannos" by the Greek democracies:

"It's own peculiar characteristsics (i.e. the state), on the other hand, will be, for example, a fear of admitting intelligent people to office, because intelligence is no longer combined with simplicity and sincerity; it will prefer the hearty types who prefer war to peace. It will admire the tricks and strategems which are needed in war, which will be its constant occupation."