Bob Jackson, traditional frame

lugger

After looking and looking for an old school touring frame with long wheel base, lugged Reynolds steel, a non-sloping top tube and down tube shifter bosses, I think Bob Jackson still makes that frame, the World Tour 631. Their website, http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/p...&products_id=43, however, does not show the geometry of the bike. I emailed the company, but have not heard back from them yet and they are too far away, in Leeds England, for me to call from US.
I converted 360 in British pounds to US dollars, took off VAT and added shipping. Total cost is about $570 I think. Much less expensive than a Burley and Burley does not even use lugs. Surly does not use lugs either. Maybe it is about the same price as a Kogswell, but Kogswell does not build frames for loaded touring.
What is the word on Bob Jacksons? My understanding is that they were top of the line in 1935- 1985, but then sold the company to another company which made some inferior Bob Jackson frames for a while. Then, in 1993, Bob bought his company back and made good handbuilt frames again. How are their frames now?
Also, does anyone know the geometry (especially wheelbase, headset, bottom bracket, spacing and various standover heights) of the World Tour 631?

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lugger

Maybe it is strange to respond to my own posting, but here's an update on my traditonal touring frame research and I hope it is interesting. I found another English company. It's Mercian, http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames.asp. They make an old fashioned frame called King of Mercia with lugged Reynolds 631 tubing for the main triangle, but don't say what they use for fork and stays. Nor do they say standover heights, wheelbases or spacing. What I did find is that they use bronze to solder the lugs to the tubes. Bob Jackson uses silver. I emailed a custom frame builder who uses both silver and bronze on the same frame. I asked him about the advantages of each and which would be better for a whole frame. I hope he writes back to me. If anyone else knows about silver and bronze for soldering lugs to tubes, please tell.

There are some differences between Mercian's King of Mercia and Bob Jackson's World Tour 631 that make more sense to me. The Bob Jackson has bosses for cantilever or V brakes while The Mercian takes side pulls. Bob Jackson has fork braze-ons for front panniers, but Mercian does not. Bob Jackson is a fair bit less expensive than Mercian.

I'm glad to have a comparison. So far, with incomplete information, Bob Jackson is looking better than Mercian at this point. Does anyone know more about these two companies or other companies that still make old school lugged steel touring frames?

cyclekid

Hi, I live in Leeds (U.K) I know Bob Jackson very well. My wife rides for Bob Jackson Race Team and uses two of their custom frames. ( One timetrial and one Road Race). They are still producing frames for the U.S but I cannot remember their distributor. I will check it out and get back to you if you are still needing the information. Not sure about your history of Bob Jackson though. Yes Bob did sell to the current owner Don, the frames have pretty much been made by the same builders both before and after. Experienced frame builders are hard to come by now in the U.K.

lugger

Thanks, Cyclekid. If you can find the US distributor I would be grateful. I have been thinking of buying through the Bob Jackson website. You are lucky to live in Leeds, right in Bob Jackson land.
I am glad to hear your praise of the company. I have always had very high respect for Bob Jackson and the more I hear now, the more my respect increases. People admire the name when I ask what they think. Also, I found Bob Jackson solders their lugs with silver because it requires less heat, preventing damage to the tubes. They have a nice choice of tube sets for custom bikes. Their stock frames seem to have better touring braze-ons and better touring geometry (longer chain stays and more fork rake) than others. Their prices are fair. I think all that is the making of a great bike.

cyclekid

Right: if you want to do direct then email is sales@bobjacksoncycles.co.uk. (for the attention of Paul Kirk - Shop Manager) Or they have two distributors in the U.S. http://www.worldclasscycles.com or Dennis Stone in 'Alemenia'? Not sure if I spelt that correct. world class cycles are in New York.

Jacksons will do 'off the peg' or 'custom sizing'. all still handbuilt and finished. Hope that you get sorted, enjoy riding - keep safe.........

lugger

Thanks for the info. Yes, I'm all set. Good luck to the racing team!

EoinC

Back in the 70's and 80's Bob Jackson frames were noted as being very good. Silver solder is definitely preferable. Touring frames were a big market in the UK and the top frame builders did a very good job. If I were after a touring bike, I would be happy to head in the direction of a Bob Jackson. I'm impressed that you are still looking at a lugged steel frame in the age of machine-TIG welded production. I'm even more impressed that BJ are still churning out handmade frames.

bilesteve

Bob Jackson frames have been at the upper end of English makers for a long time, I have bought 2 of their frames, they are especially pretty. (I also have a King of Mercia touring frame/bike) My guess is that the original poster made a mistake on cost calculation as the dollar has been relatively weak compared to the Euro or BP and I paid quite a bit more than that a couple of years ago.

My Special Tourist frame is 72/72 parallel angles on a 56cm frame and it has a nice low 10.5" bottom bracket height. I am posting since this frame is never been built up (bought it in 2001) and is for sale. Mine has the extra cost Hetchin's style paint job with extra bands on the seat tube. If interested, email me, otherwise, have fun shopping and you can not go wrong with either Bob Jackson or Mercian.

wolfix

I know the Bob Jackson frames of the 70's were as good as you could get. I toured with many riders of that era and I all I heard was words of praise.
I was speaking to an employee of a major cycling importer [USA] and he told me that the Bob Jacksons were the choice of the employees of his company. And they had the choice of many.
I do not think you can go wrong.

philso

this link was on one of the other pages. most of their bikes are TIG welded, but they do custom lugs (prices not mentioned). their bikes look quite good. the "factory tour" is worth the time it takes to visit their homepage. their racks and panniers are worth looking at, also.

http://www.bgcycles.com/index.html

i still tour with my 33 year old bianchi, so i'm not too up-to-date on the latest. hope thier sites at least provides something to compare with. good luck with your choice and post a pic and let us know how it is.

Durangodave

I rode a beautiful green Bob Jackson from Oregon to Maine back in 1988 (I think.) What a great bike! No information to add, but your post reminded me of the trip.

__________________
"I must (deride me not) be somewhere where I can, without disaster, bicycle." Henry James, 1896

Skip Gaede

There is at least one distributor in the U.S.: http://www.worldclasscycles.com and they are located in New York City.

One of the pages on their web site lists the specs for the bikes: http://www.worldclasscycles.com/JAC...ANDARDBUILD.htm

Cheers,
Skip