What to do when the bad guys get you?

artemidorus

Yesterday I was bowled over by a 4WD at a roundabout. I was going straight through and he came in on my left having failed to see me, I assume. It was dark but I had my godawful bright Cateye front flasher on (the sort that makes people turn their high beams on at you in protest). For the first time in ages, I'd worn a dark jersey instead of my usual fluorescent yellow specials. Like many/most cyclists, I removed the spoke reflectors the day I bought my bike.
I'm covered in grazes and bruises, but otherwise OK. My Cinelli bars and my rear rim are dead, and my brake hood plastics have taken a beating.
The reason for posting is that I've come to realise that cyclist victims in these circumstances fall through a big hole in the system. Because I didn't suffer any hospitalisable injuries, the police didn't want to know about it, despite the fact that repairs will probably go>$500 and the fact that my bike was rendered completely unrideable. I didn't call the police from the scene (and in retrospect should have) and it took two phone calls from home followed by a visit to my local cop shop before the police would actually record the accident and give me a number. Each time, they tried to tell me it was all a trivial matter and that I shouldn't be bothering them (not quite in those words, of course).
Why bother? Stanmore Cycles have assured me that I need a report number or else it would be quite likely that the driver that hit me would be able to deny that any accident had taken place and simply refuse to cough up. As it is, I guess there is still a fair chance that he will try to get out of it. (We did exchange details).
Has anyone been through this process before? Did you have a similar or a better experience?
Any tips for making sure that the driver pays up?
How do we change the system?
To change tack, what do people think about side visibility? I'm sorely tempted to put those spoke reflectors back on, as much as I loath them.
Comments will very much be appreciated.

geoffs

Are you sure you have no injuries worth getting looked at?? I have a friend who thought "I'll be right mate", 12 months later he is still having proplems with torn shoulder ligaments.
I was talking to a guy who works in mountian equipment at Birkenhead Point and he haed been rear ended. bike written off but he thought he didn't need to go to hospital either. 12 months later he is still trying to get recompence.
My wife is an Emergency Physician, ALWAYS, ALWAYS GO TO THE HOSPITAL AND BE CHECKED OUT BY PROFFESSIONALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You would be amazed how many Staff Specialists in Sydney Emergency departments are cyclists.

Those flashers are pretty darn bright but the guy must have been a moron. It doesn't seem to matter wether it's night or day morons are still morons and I have nearly been cleaned up numerous times in roundabouts. There was no accident due to my skill, not the drivers. I have had drivers deliberately run me into the kerb or try to. I have been to the police and they say "are you hurt". "No". "Ah well there's not much we can do. Sorry about that".
If you have been hurt, the police should take action. If they aren't go higher. Contact your local member. Write a letter to the paper. Contact your local bicycle advocacy group. The only time that I have been knocked off the bike. The guy that did it couldn't have been more helpful and his insurance company coughed up.
We commute on a tandem so I am extra careful as it's not just me. We use a Cateye Stadium on the front and it's bright. However I always presume that the driver is a moron and hasn't seen me.
I've been trying to work out a cheap helmet cam sytem.

Try posting in aus bike cafe and you will get more reponses.

Get well soon

Cheers

Geoff

smartie

As long as you have a police report on it you should be fine.

If it was me, i'd do the same as if he hit me whilst i was driving my car. Contact his car insurance direct and fill i a claim form for the repairs to your bike. If the insurance company jumps up and down just hold up the police report and they will have to cough up as it is his fault.

The police also must follow up all reports so you may find he also gets a fine for his trouble.

I agree that you should see a doctor ASAP if only just to get him to look at your grazes and bruises.

If you then have no luck, talk to your state bicycle organization if you are a member (down here it's Bicycle Victoria) and see what they can do to help.

Best of luck.

SomeGuy

A friend of mine from work was rear ended by a car, wrote off their bike. No one saw it, driver denied it, my workmate was left having to cough up for a new bike.

I guess sometimes it sucks to be a cyclist...

artemidorus

Thanks for your replies.
I've realised that I should have mentioned that I am a doctor (although not an ED physician ) and I'm pretty confident that my injuries, while currently annoying, are minor.
I rang his insurer that evening and was told that they only get involved if he makes a claim. As his excess is likely to be about the same as the repair bill, I expect that he'll want to pay it himself and keep his no-claim bonus.
From the point of view of getting him charged with negligent driving, I'm not feeling particularly vindictive, although that feeling will change if he doesn't cough up. I think he was actually going for a drive to get his baby to sleep. His driving was definitely negligent!
My main gripe is actually the rude indifference of two out of three of the police I dealt with. I really feel that they are the villains of the piece.
I'll see how I go...

531Aussie

On roundabouts: do small suburban roundabouts actually work? Most drivers just plough through, so I never assume the guy on my left is gunna stop.

Also, most small roundabouts ain't big enough for a bike and a car to get through at the same time, so if I've got to the intersection first, the car behind me wait 'til I'm through before they can pass me.....or ELSE!!

pase

yer, some ppl think its ok to overtake you thru a roundabout. i make a point of filling the lane whenever im going thru one cos there will only be trouble if i dont.

in regards to your accident, go see a doctor and contact the TAC about your injuries.

artemidorus

I, too, always take the centre of the lane crossing a roundabout. In this case, I was struck from the outside of the roundabout.

What is the TAC?

xtineclark

Just wanted to share my experience - NB: TAC and Stress.

18 months ago I was hit by a car from the left on a roundabout (similar to the first story).
The guy stopped and drove me home, and I thought I was only grazed and bruised.
In the next few days it became apparent I had a torn ligament in my shoulder which subsequently required physiotherapy to the total of $150 (oh and I still have problems with it).
You'd think TAC would cover the medical costs right? Well unbeknown to many they actually have a $500 excess before they start covering expenses, and don't care who pays this excess . Because I had told the dirver I thought I was only bruised he refused to pay for my medical costs (he thought I was trying to get money out of him, even though I gave him a copy of my bills).

In addition, the driver's insurance company (aami) were horrible to deal with, they classed my bike as a write off (the seat broke and I had a bent fork), and wanted to give me the cost of an equivalent secondhand bike. My dilemna then was how to find a secondhand bike in the same condition as mine was, in my size? And why should I have to do the searching? Anyway I eventually got some money from them to cover repairs.

The worst thing about these sort of experiences is the stress and inconvenience you suffer, but wheres the compensation for this?

geoffs

The police are the villians, sort of. Even if you come across one that appears to be keen to do something it is doubtful that any action will be taken. The problem appears to be that they are so under resourced that they work on a prioty system and cyclists just dont rate that highly. The last instance that I reported to the police was to a Bicycle cop in Newtown. She took all the details (I even had a photo of the offending driver and the number plate thatks to my digital camera on the phone) and nothing.
I know that the carrot is better and the stick but the next time that someone tries to run over me and I dont have my wife on the back of the tandem, I be very tempted to punch the shit out of the driver. I have done someting like this years ago and had the police knock on my door regarding the incident (Forster is a small town) and as it was his word against mine the police just dropped it. It was all to hard for them which is what happens when you complian to the police about a car.

Cheers

Geoff

adventureguy

In 20 plus years of road riding the only accident I have had is on a roundabout in Melbourne. Cars do plough through them at a speed where it is impossible to stop even if they see you. In my case the prick that hit me renegged on his promise to pay for the damage to my bike. I learnt a few things.

1. If in an accident - no matter how small - call the police to the scene. If the driver refuses to co-operate and wait for the police he can be charged with leaving the scene of an accident I believe. This way you can be sure it will be dealt with properly and you will have some legal rights. If you report it after you have left the scene it is too late.

2. Get witneses names and phone numbers if possible.

3. Never ever assume priority at a roundabout. If I did not follow this rule I wouldn't be alive I am sure.

4. Don't fall into the trap of retaliating with voilence. As tempting as it is the driver will only take it out on some other innocent cyclist - let road rage be the refuge of the cowardly motorist.

Take care out there.

HD

artemidorus

Just to post some news, the driver has lodged a claim with his insurer (NRMA), so I'm now dealing with them. Total damage $700.

Geoff, I have to take you to task over your response: I think that to resort to violence puts one at an ethical level way below that of most offending drivers, who in most cases don't intend to offend. Sure, if I was convinced that they had meant it or if they behaved offensively or aggressively after they had just knocked me to the tarmac, who knows what I might do in the heat of the moment, but in general it would simply be thuggish behaviour that would multiply the general nastiness of the event manyfold.

Again, what is the TAC?

smartie

The TAC is the Victorian Transport Accident Commission. They insure for any injury caused as a result of a motor vehicle accident. No matter who is at fault.

__________________
"I'm most dangerous when i'm cornered. I fall to pieces so quickly people get hit by the shrapnel." - Zaphod Beeblebrox, Galactic President.

MuzzaB

I had a similar experience about two years ago here in Auckland. I wonder to what extent the police reluctance to deal with the matter is due to under-resourcing/overwork? In New Zealand at the moment the police are openly acknowledging that they do not have the resources to pursue all reports.

In my case, the irony was that the accident took place outside a police station, but it was after hours and unattended. I was slightly injured (just a cut on my leg, road rash and brusing - which looked much worse than it was). I reported the accident to the police by telephone as soon as I got home (it's the law in NZ that any injury accident must be reported within 24 hours). I visited the police station beside the accident site the next day, and the duty officer took photos of my injuries, confirmed the driver's details against the vehilce registry, did the paper work, and them asked me if I REALLY wanted it followed up. He made it clear (albeit politely) that they had more important things to deal with. Again, the main thing for me was that there was a record of it in case something (such as injury, or some bizzare claim by the driver) surfaced. So I left it at that. The only damage to the bike (I broke the bike's fall) was a bent dropout and rear derailleur. I persevered for a while and then replaced both at my cost - not worth the hassle of trying to recover from the driver.

Disappointing though. The only "good" thing (if you can call it that) was the knowledge that my body did quite a bit of damage to his car - took off the trim, a wing mirror, and a side indicator. At the time, the driver was pretty uptight about it. I remember lying in the gutter, bloodied and bruised, while this guy got out of his car, looked at the damage, and then asked me angrily what I was going to do about it! (Without asking me first whether I was OK). He's the one that had failed to give way at the intersection! The worst thing was that I could see the accident coming, but there was nothing I could do about it. I was going straigt ahead through a green light - he was turning right from the other direction. As he started his turn, I could see he was still looking down the road for oncoming traffic, and not looking into his turn. No eye contact! I turned sharply to my left and managed to avoid a T-bone type impact. Thankfully it was more of a glancing blow by the time we hit. he admitted he hadn't seen me, but pointed out (as if in mitigation) that he had indicated. Yeah right.

__________________
Muzza