OT: He's gone.

Jon Senior

Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
Blunkett has left the building. I would wish him my condolences if I
actually felt that he was in any way qualified to hold the position of
Home Secretary in the first place. Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Jon

Chris Bardell

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in
news:1103154785.25136.1@doris.uk.clara.net:

> Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
> his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Yeah, first for the chop is the total bullsh!t ID cards scheme.

Clarke is one of the local MPs round here (Naarf*ck), although not mine. If
he doesn't withdraw the ID cards I could always go round his constituency
surgery after a sweaty ride & sit around with my arms help aloft, refusing
to take my armpits elsewhere until he complies. You think al-Quaeeda has a
monopoly on dirty bombs?

OT: Fantasy Cabinet Scraps. Who'd come off best in Clarke vs. Prescott? I
see them on the green outside the Houses of Parliament - jackets & ties
cast aside, sleeves rolled up, proper Marquis of Queensbury stance, while a
pack of pressmen surround them, baying for blood. All the time, Gordon is
stood on the periphery, running a book on the outcome ('prudent' odds, of
course)...

More seriously, some friends of mine have met Charles Clarke in the context
of his previous (Education) post, and apparently he's a very personable guy
who makes an effort to listen.

--
Chris Bardell
[Remove favourite mode of transport from email address]

Andy Dingley

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:54:34 +0000, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote:

>Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
>his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Not a hope 8-(


If you don't want ID cards, then do the legwork:
www.no2id.net
www.faxyourmp.com

Dave Larrington

Jon Senior wrote:

> Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
> Blunkett has left the building. I would wish him my condolences if I
> actually felt that he was in any way qualified to hold the position of
> Home Secretary in the first place. Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
> his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Seems to be little chance of this. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Bah!

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Epetruk

Jon Senior wrote:
> Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
> Blunkett has left the building. I would wish him my condolences if I
> actually felt that he was in any way qualified to hold the position of
> Home Secretary in the first place. Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
> his more rabid policies under the carpet.
>
> Jon

If by "rabid policies" you mean the introduction of ID cards, forget it.

Pete Bentley

Epetruk <nobody@blackhole.com> wrote:
>If by "rabid policies" you mean the introduction of ID cards, forget it.

Indeed. Interviewed on the Today Programme this morning, Clarke stated
he intends to push ahead with ID cards as soon as possible.

Pete.

Epetruk

Pete Bentley wrote:
> Epetruk <nobody@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> If by "rabid policies" you mean the introduction of ID cards, forget
>> it.
>
> Indeed. Interviewed on the Today Programme this morning, Clarke
> stated he intends to push ahead with ID cards as soon as possible.
>
> Pete.

I don't think that ID cards are a bad thing in principle. However, I don't
think that the technology to be used and the cost of the project justify
introducing them at this time.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

Alan Braggins

In article <cpqmuh$5fd$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, Chris Bardell wrote:
>Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in
>news:1103154785.25136.1@doris.uk.clara.net:
>
>> Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
>> his more rabid policies under the carpet.
>
>Yeah, first for the chop is the total bullsh!t ID cards scheme.
[...]
>More seriously, some friends of mine have met Charles Clarke in the context
>of his previous (Education) post, and apparently he's a very personable guy
>who makes an effort to listen.

It doesn't show: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4100629.stm

Simon Brooke

in message <1103154785.25136.1@doris.uk.clara.net>, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> ('') wrote:

> Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
> Blunkett has left the building. I would wish him my condolences if I
> actually felt that he was in any way qualified to hold the position of
> Home Secretary in the first place. Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
> his more rabid policies under the carpet.

I hate to say this, but I can't help remembering how elated I was when
the Tories got kicked out. What happened? What happened to the 'Ethical
Foreign Policy' which, frankly, for me was the biggest thing? What
happened about the arms trade? What happened about probity in public
life? What happened about social justice? On topic for this group, what
happened about integrated transport policy?

The answer, frankly is we've gone backwards on all fronts. On foreign
policy, we've indulged in an illegal imperial war in cynical support of
oil interests - not even our own oil interests - while continuing to be
one of the worlds major exporters of arms. On social justice, the
disparity between rich and poor is wider, and getting wider faster. On
transport, we have new motorways, relatively cheaper motoring,
relatively more expensive trains with more restrictions on taking a
bike. And on probity in public life?

So, yes, it's good to hear that one of Tony's cronies has got his well
earned comeuppance. But don't for a moment imagine that, in the words
of the old song, 'things can only get better'. In the words of another,
'you ain't seen nothing yet'.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ring of great evil
Small one casts it into flame
Bringing rise of Men ;; gonzoron

Arthur Clune

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote:
: Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
: Blunkett has left the building.

I have very mixed feelings about this. I detest his policies, but
admire him as a person hugely for what he has achieved. It's a shame
he went the way he did IMO.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Andy Leighton

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:10:56 -0000,
Dave Larrington <smert.spamionam@privacy.net> wrote:
> Jon Senior wrote:
>
>> Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
>> Blunkett has left the building. I would wish him my condolences if I
>> actually felt that he was in any way qualified to hold the position of
>> Home Secretary in the first place. Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
>> his more rabid policies under the carpet.
>
> Seems to be little chance of this. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

He will be under strict instructions from the top, and probably would not
be allowed to change direction even if he wanted to.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Paul - xxx

Epetruk composed the following ...

> I don't think that ID cards are a bad thing in principle. However, I don't
> think that the technology to be used and the cost of the project justify
> introducing them at this time.

I agree with this post ..

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ...
"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Trevor Barton

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:34:12 -0000, Paul - xxx wrote:
> Epetruk composed the following ...
>
>> I don't think that ID cards are a bad thing in principle. However, I don't
>> think that the technology to be used and the cost of the project justify
>> introducing them at this time.
>
> I agree with this post ..

And I fundamentally disagree with the premise that they are a good thing.
Not so much from a personal liberty POV (although that's also a big issue),
but from the point of view that they are not going to achieve what the
Govt wanted them to achieve. There is no way of producing an unforgeable
ID card, and even if there was, there is no way of ensuring the system
of getting one is both un-foolable, and uncorruptable. Remeber, all
of the 911 hijackers had valid ID, some of it was false, and others
were legitimate but obtained corruptly (and some was legitimate and
obtained legitimately).

I will be entitled to an ID card. How does that prevent me from
driving a bomb into London and blowing it to smithereens, whatever
they are?

It is complete and utter rubbish. And I'm bloody glad at least one
moron has gone from the Govt.

Sorry. Rant over.

--
Trevor Barton

Epetruk

Trevor Barton wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:34:12 -0000, Paul - xxx wrote:
>> Epetruk composed the following ...
>>
>>> I don't think that ID cards are a bad thing in principle. However,
>>> I don't think that the technology to be used and the cost of the
>>> project justify introducing them at this time.
>>
>> I agree with this post ..
>
> And I fundamentally disagree with the premise that they are a good
> thing. Not so much from a personal liberty POV (although that's also
> a big issue), but from the point of view that they are not going to
> achieve what the Govt wanted them to achieve. There is no way of
> producing an unforgeable ID card,

You sound like you've made up your mind on this one, so I don't think
any new advances in technology will convince you otherwise.

In any case, nobody is saying (or should be saying) that ID cards should
be unforgeable - they should just be good enough to establish one's
identity to such a degree that the chances of you being someone else
are minimal.

> and even if there was, there is no way of ensuring the system
> of getting one is both un-foolable, and uncorruptable.

As above.

> Rememeber, all of the 911 hijackers had valid ID, some of it was
> false, and others were legitimate but obtained corruptly (and
> some was legitimate and obtained legitimately).
>
> I will be entitled to an ID card. How does that prevent me from
> driving a bomb into London and blowing it to smithereens, whatever
> they are?

I don't see the value of ID cards as a terrorist prevention measure -
quite frankly, I can't understand that argument. To me, they are more
valuable in preventing identity theft (which I believe is going to
be a big issue in the future) and benefit fraud.

Even if the government doesn't go ahead with this idea, we may well
see the rise of several Verisign like companies which offer to authenticate
one's identity for various reasons.

> It is complete and utter rubbish. And I'm bloody glad at least one
> moron has gone from the Govt.
>
> Sorry. Rant over.

No need to apologise - a rant is a Good Thing!