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01-10.-2004, 01:01 PM
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#1 |
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Community Team
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 144
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Who one the 1st president debate?
Who do you think won and why?
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01-10.-2004, 01:27 PM
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#2 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: metro dc USA
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
I heard it on c-span radio. I'd have to say Kerry won resoundingly, he was clear & concise where Bush was slurring his words together, repeating himself frequently & after it was over the 1st caller(into c-span) noticed that while she watched on tv, Kerry took one sip of water, Bush drank 3 glasses. That, taken all together; for an incumbent pres., is not a very strong showing. He was "treading water" so to speak.
__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death. George Carlin US comedian and actor (1937 - ) |
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01-10.-2004, 02:06 PM
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#3 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Not quite there
Posts: 968
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
I thought the big difference between Kerry and Bush was that Kerry had a succinct, definite answer to every question. Bush fumbled and stumbled so much it made him look non-presidential. I want a president who can think on his feet. Bush didn't seem to give me this. He also just seemed to regurgitate the same answers over in over. "Mixed messages" or "The job in Iraq is hard" Yeah, but that's not an excuse for getting the job done. I thought Kerry did a good job of making the point that the war in Iraq has diverted critical resources from the war on terror. It's Osama, not Sadam. I also thought the line about "I made a mistake about how I talked about the $87Billion, bush made a mistake in his decision to go to war, which is worse?" was very strong. I also think the line about being certain but wrong was also powerful. When you contrast the two statements I think they are telling. Kerry is willing to admit when he's wrong, but Bush is too stubborn to do so.
Folks who study such things said that before tonight, Bush had never lost a political debate in life. I don't think they can say that anymore.
__________________
Cheap, Strong and Light. Pick any Two. |
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01-10.-2004, 02:45 PM
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#4 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 277
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
Dammit. I've been going on all week about how the debates are staged, scripted and meaningless and how I would be principled and wouldn't watch them. Then I get home and all the pundits are talking about how great the debate was and that they actually had something substantive to say. Grrrr.
 Does anyone know if it will be repeated?I caught the last 10 minutes of the debate and the closing remarks. I swear Bush is back on the bottle because he kept slurring and I could barely make out what he was saying (although this is always a challenge whenever Bush is speaking). I mostly watched the PBS post-debate coverage and their experts didn't seem to think there was a clear winner. The "regular joe" panel on the NBC post-debate coverage all seemed to think that Kerry won. |
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01-10.-2004, 03:49 PM
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#5 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,163
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
Typical behavior from each man, in my opinion.
Kerry fumbled a few times, crashed a few trains of thought and made a few poor word choices, but in general, lived up to his reputation as a thoughtful, intelligent debater. As Paul Begala commented to CNN.com, "Kerry had a remarkable command of policy. He knew how many hours of terrorist tapes the FBI has not translated. He quoted from the president's father... He was more presidential than the president himself was. If a Martian were watching this debate, he'd think Kerry was the president, not Mr. Bush." Bush, in what I would consider perfectly usual fashion, was cozier than Kerry, but only actually engaged Kerry or Jim Lehrer in a real exchange of ideas a handful of times: there were a few moments where he eagerly jumped to a solid, succinct response -- characteristicly confident and forceful -- but whether his comments were grounded on a coherent response or not, he'd inevitably fall back on the 2 or 3 talking points which have been so succesful for him all Summer long, and fill out the remaining 25 seconds with a dozen iterations of "mixed messages." Admittedly, this "campaign by bumpersticker" strategy has been killer in stump speeches and nightly news soundbites, which is why Bush was clearly coached to stick to it. In a debate format, however, it didn't hold up. What was succinct the first time we heard it was stubborn by minute 20, limited or underprepared by the 60 minute mark, and comical by debate's end. Sure, both guys use soundbites to stick messages, but I'd never heard so much repetition in my life. Bush was the Philip Glass of political debating. According to the AP's analysis of data from three post-debate polls, Kerry was the victor, with "most of those surveyed saying he did better than Bush." But why stop there? From FOX News: Quote:
 Last edited by lokstah : 01-10.-2004 at 04:20 PM. |
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01-10.-2004, 03:56 PM
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#6 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,163
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
Quote:
A tally would validate that criticism. Any volunteers? |
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01-10.-2004, 09:46 PM
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#7 |
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Community Team
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: at the bar
Posts: 12,575
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
John Kerry won the debate - hands down.
Kerry's command of factual information and his answering were very impressive. He looked and sounded Presidential. Bush to me looked like he wanted to be anywhere else other than at the debate. His delivery was hesitant - he did have some facts and statistics but when compared to Kerry, he did not look to be in command of the information. Did anone notice Bush's gaffe - when asked about the taking the troops home - Bush said "they (Iraqi's) attacked us". Kerry immediately picked him up on this and pointed out that Iraq did not attack the USA - it was Al Qaeda. Very sloppy on Bush's part - and excellent on Kerry. He showed that he can think on his feet and listen and discern what Bush was saying. Bush stuck to the tired old line - and his waffle about going up to the mountain and looking back and seeing a valley of peace - was just that, pure shite as usual. Tell that to the Afghans - 90% of the country that is controlled by warloards. Tell that to the 11,000 dead Iraq civilians. On this side of the atlantic - the considered view is that Kerry won the debate and that Bush performed poorly. |
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01-10.-2004, 10:26 PM
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#9 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Undisclosed(next to Wurmy)
Posts: 686
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
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This is so true. The responses so far are exactly in line with what people previously thought. It wouldn't matter what happened people will think 'their' candidate won. |
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02-10.-2004, 12:43 AM
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#10 | |
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Community Team
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: at the bar
Posts: 12,575
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
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I don't agree with that view Biker. First of all, the standard of public speaking, as evidenced by the debate last night, is far lower than here in Europe (Britain and Ireland). Look at the Labour Party Conference this week and look at the Conservative Party conference next week. The addresses are better. Perhaps the format of the debate in the USA is to blame but I was not overly impressed at the standard last night. I had naturally see George Bush speaking before - but I had never heard Kerry speak at length. I had assumed, by reading media reports, that Kerry would be longwinded. In fact I thought he was very clear and very articulate. I thought he looked Presidential and his delivery was excellent. Bush on the other hand was unimpressive. The mullah is pronounced as "mull la" - Bush pronounced mullah as "mooo la". Just a point but it highlights, one example of Bush's inability to clearly speak. His pronunciation of the Chinese Premiers name was appalling as well. Looking at the content of both speeches - Kerry had facts and figures to hand. Bush on the other hand continually repeated the same, tired catchphrases : ad nauseum we heard "it's very hard work" and "democracy and liberty" without his quantifying just what these concepts mean. They were soundbites, cliches. Bush waffled on about Korea and quite frankly he didn't appear to know that it is only the USA that has imposed sanctions on Iran ! Bush's comments about Putin seemed to me patronising quite frankly. Kerry on the other hand came across well. he suggested that the USA incur 90% of the casualties and 90% of the cost of reconstructing Iraq. And he made the point repeatedly, that having fought in Vietnam that he would have the troops concerns to heart. In appearance, I thought that Bush's expression looked lost at times. He did not seem to focus and he looked disinterested. Kerry looked alert and this was borne out by the way he correctly spotted Bush's gaffe about "they (Iraq) invaded us". Kerry quickly responded and he responded well. I think Kerry was more convincing. I had hoped that Bush would have given and indication as to how he intended to resolve Iraq but nothing materialised. |
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02-10.-2004, 01:05 AM
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#11 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: metro dc USA
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
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Kerry won this one on substance and delivery & where both sides used sound bites in the campaign, kerry left his at home; for this debate, whereas bush used them frequently & as filler for those times when he could'nt think of anything to say. e.g.-"hard work"(obviously, because he & his boys did'nt thoroughly plan how to win the peace, the war was over long ago but the casualties keep rising) , "mixed messages"(kerry stated his position to "exhaust diplomatic means" to get as many allies as possible to join us because it(overthrow) was going to happen regardless, the only diff. being Bush's "rush to war" puts all of the burden [economic(raid soc. sec., i guess) & military(US makes up inordinate amt. of fighters & casualties] on US were used profusely to the point of being dismissed or irrelevant.
__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death. George Carlin US comedian and actor (1937 - ) |
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02-10.-2004, 01:06 AM
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#12 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,163
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
Quote:
That doesn't preclude us chatting, though. If you thought Bush performed well, we'd like to hear why, whether your thinking so was a forgone conclusion or not. |
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02-10.-2004, 01:10 AM
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#13 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,163
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
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I'd expect closer to a polling tie, with perhaps a slight Bush lead, if our debate views were collectively predictable because of bias. Instead, we've got a series of polls which illustrate Kerry garnering a 40-60% victory, and only 20%-40% of viewers suggesting Bush won. You've got Bill Kristol and the rest of FOX News more or less in agreement. Might you be glossing this question over? |
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02-10.-2004, 01:14 AM
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#14 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Undisclosed(next to Wurmy)
Posts: 686
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
Quote:
The point of my post is that a Kerry supporter will think Kerry won. A Bush supporter will think Bush won. Of course now that Kerry's losing in the polls, his supporters will cling to any hope they can find at all. Nobody really cares if Bush mispronounces a name. Other than Bush haters. Besides he has a Texas accent. He will pronouce words differently from me or someone from another part of the country or world. Yeah Kerry threw out a lot of facts, but Gore did that as well. Voters are less interested in details than in what the person stands for. In that regard Bush did well. I thought Kerry did well, but I don't think he changed many minds. I'd hoped that Kerry would tell us what he's planning on doing, but nothing really materialized. |
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02-10.-2004, 01:16 AM
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#15 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: metro dc USA
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Who one the 1st president debate?
Quote:
MSN(microsoft network)BC, right now has the "who won the debate" poll at 62-kerry 38-bush w/ 1,785,543 resonses.
__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death. George Carlin US comedian and actor (1937 - ) |
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