Monitoring morning HR

Per Elmsäter

Since I've added more and more workouts to each weekly schedule, I've come
to the point where I feel the need to start monitoring my morning HR. To
avoid overtraining and to detect infections.
Due to the fact that I haven't done this before I figure I need to build a
baseline first so I'll know what is normal and what is high.
I put my HRM on one to two hours before I get up every morning and go back
to sleep. What happens is that I get such a big range of HR I don't really
know which ones to use. My minimum HR can be anywhere from 40 to 55
depending on whether the day before was a rest day or a hard workout. The
average HR will vary the same but 8 to 10 beats higher.
How do I use all this information in a practical way?
I realize that a high resting HR means I should not do any quality workouts
that day and this is not really my question. It is more like how to deal
with all the information I get from a HRM. Let's say my HRmin one morning is
42. Well this was recorded over two hours of sleep and only happened once.
If I look at random ten minute segments over those two hours of sleep, my
HRmin will maybe vary between 42 and 50. According to what I heard a 6-8
beat rise of HRmin in the morning means you are overtrained or have an
infection. How on earth can anybody say something like that considering how
much the HR varies. Imagine before the HRMs came. You counted for 15 seconds
multiplied by 4 and decided what your HR was and got up. Upon this
information top athletes planned their training day! Or did they?

How do those of you that monitor your morning HR handle this?

--
Perre "Confused"

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Ewoud Dronkert

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, Per Elmsäter wrote:
> My minimum HR can be anywhere from 40 to 55 depending on whether
> the day before was a rest day or a hard workout.

Really? Well that's enough info then isn't it? You must remember though
that (ime) just turning over may lead to your HR going +10 or more.

Per Elmsäter

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, Per Elmsäter wrote:
>> My minimum HR can be anywhere from 40 to 55 depending on whether
>> the day before was a rest day or a hard workout.
>
> Really? Well that's enough info then isn't it? You must remember
> though that (ime) just turning over may lead to your HR going +10 or
> more.

If it was only that simple but if you look at another part that I wrote

"If I look at random ten minute segments over those two hours of sleep, my
HRmin will maybe vary between 42 and 50"

Right now I'm recording two hours but in the future I doubt I will. More
likely just glance at a couple of minutes of HR before I get up. Now
depending on which part of the sleeping cycle I glance at my HR will vary
wildly. As you say just turning my head may up it 10 beats. So how can I use
this information to decide whether I can do a quality workout or not this
day. In theory it sounds all simple enough but once I try to apply this
theory to reality it isn't so simple anymore.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Ewoud Dronkert

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:45:28 GMT, Per Elmsäter wrote:
> So how can I use this information to decide

Don't worry too much about all the fluctuations and the exact number.
Important is to always use the same procedure that will give YOU
consistent results. It could be as simple as grabbing a watch when you
wake up, lay still for a few minutes, and counting heart beats for
another minute. Then when you get a feeling of what the numbers mean,
you can act accordingly. It's no exact science (or rather, it's
different for every individual).

Andy Birko

"Per Elmsäter" <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote in message
news:stxbc.88462$dP1.261168@newsc.telia.net...
> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

>
> Right now I'm recording two hours but in the future I doubt I will. More
> likely just glance at a couple of minutes of HR before I get up. Now
> depending on which part of the sleeping cycle I glance at my HR will vary
> wildly. As you say just turning my head may up it 10 beats. So how can I
use
> this information to decide whether I can do a quality workout or not this
> day. In theory it sounds all simple enough but once I try to apply this
> theory to reality it isn't so simple anymore.

Perhaps you've discovered that resting HR is not a good indicator of
recovery levels or state of training and your efforts would be better spent
looking for some other method of determining state of recovery.

-Andy B.

Per Elmsäter

Andy Birko wrote:
> "Per Elmsäter" <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote in message
> news:stxbc.88462$dP1.261168@newsc.telia.net...
>> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>
>>
>> Right now I'm recording two hours but in the future I doubt I will.
>> More likely just glance at a couple of minutes of HR before I get
>> up. Now depending on which part of the sleeping cycle I glance at my
>> HR will vary wildly. As you say just turning my head may up it 10
>> beats. So how can I use this information to decide whether I can do
>> a quality workout or not this day. In theory it sounds all simple
>> enough but once I try to apply this theory to reality it isn't so
>> simple anymore.
>
> Perhaps you've discovered that resting HR is not a good indicator of
> recovery levels or state of training and your efforts would be better
> spent looking for some other method of determining state of recovery.
>
> -Andy B.

Hehe.... Yes I'm starting to think that I should trust TSS entirely
At least for calculating recovery. infections will be harder. Maybe I have
to measure how many ml of drip from my nose there is in 60 seconds ;((

For those wondering. TSS ( Training Stress Score) is a value calculated out
of the training intensity and duration. It is based on Wattage and a Power
meter of any kind can be used. The CyclingPeagks Software does this
calculation and the father of the concept is Andy Coggan.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

trg

I get up in the morning, put on the strap, lie back down, wait a minute or
two and do a check. it's pretty consistant from day to day (In my case, one
too many beers the night before is more likely to have an influence than
overtraining ). Two hour monitoring, especially during sleep cycles is too
variable.

Per Elmsäter wrote:
> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>> On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, Per Elmsäter wrote:
>>> My minimum HR can be anywhere from 40 to 55 depending on whether
>>> the day before was a rest day or a hard workout.
>>
>> Really? Well that's enough info then isn't it? You must remember
>> though that (ime) just turning over may lead to your HR going +10 or
>> more.
>
> If it was only that simple but if you look at another part that I
> wrote
>
> "If I look at random ten minute segments over those two hours of
> sleep, my HRmin will maybe vary between 42 and 50"
>
> Right now I'm recording two hours but in the future I doubt I will.
> More likely just glance at a couple of minutes of HR before I get up.
> Now depending on which part of the sleeping cycle I glance at my HR
> will vary wildly. As you say just turning my head may up it 10 beats.
> So how can I use this information to decide whether I can do a
> quality workout or not this day. In theory it sounds all simple
> enough but once I try to apply this theory to reality it isn't so
> simple anymore.

John Everett

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
<perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote:

>How do those of you that monitor your morning HR handle this?

Perhaps I'm a bit of a retro-grouch, but I'm still using the "15
seconds times 4" method. I usually get 44bpm or 48bpm, but I don't get
concerned if it's 52. I start worrying at 56 and above. That's
precision enough for me. :-)


jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Jeff Jones

"Per Elmsäter" <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote in message
news:rfAbc.88477$dP1.261210@newsc.telia.net...
>
> Hehe.... Yes I'm starting to think that I should trust TSS entirely
> At least for calculating recovery. infections will be harder. Maybe I have
> to measure how many ml of drip from my nose there is in 60 seconds ;((
>
> For those wondering. TSS ( Training Stress Score) is a value calculated
out
> of the training intensity and duration. It is based on Wattage and a Power
> meter of any kind can be used. The CyclingPeagks Software does this
> calculation and the father of the concept is Andy Coggan.
>
I like numbers, and I have a HRM. I find it handy for training, in the
absence of a power meter, although it's not as "spot on the mark".

But, I don't let my resting HR dictate my training. I use the "if you feel
tired on the bike, then either don't reduce intensity/time or just go home"
rule of thumb. I've had many good training sessions when my HR was
"elevated" by 10-15 beats in the morning, so I don't let it bother me.
Actually I don't even bother taking it any more, except maybe once every
couple of weeks.

Jeff

Richard Longwood

One night, it was a cold and gloomy night, I fell asleep wearing a heart
rate monitor. Feeling a little uncomfortabe, I curled up, in a stand of
small bushes on the divider strip, and slept OK, despite the traffic.
I dreamt I wasn't an asshole. Then I woke up. Beside me was a doctorate in
Placebo Theory which I must have earned while unconscious. My heart rate
was 65 beats per minute, I popped a Cialis, went for a training ride, and
had a boner for 4 hours straight.




"Per Elmsäter" <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote in message
news:eKvbc.88453$dP1.260985@newsc.telia.net...
> Since I've added more and more workouts to each weekly schedule, I've come
> to the point where I feel the need to start monitoring my morning HR. To
> avoid overtraining and to detect infections.
> Due to the fact that I haven't done this before I figure I need to build a
> baseline first so I'll know what is normal and what is high.
> I put my HRM on one to two hours before I get up every morning and go back
> to sleep. What happens is that I get such a big range of HR I don't really
> know which ones to use. My minimum HR can be anywhere from 40 to 55
> depending on whether the day before was a rest day or a hard workout. The
> average HR will vary the same but 8 to 10 beats higher.
> How do I use all this information in a practical way?
> I realize that a high resting HR means I should not do any quality
workouts
> that day and this is not really my question. It is more like how to deal
> with all the information I get from a HRM. Let's say my HRmin one morning
is
> 42. Well this was recorded over two hours of sleep and only happened once.
> If I look at random ten minute segments over those two hours of sleep, my
> HRmin will maybe vary between 42 and 50. According to what I heard a 6-8
> beat rise of HRmin in the morning means you are overtrained or have an
> infection. How on earth can anybody say something like that considering
how
> much the HR varies. Imagine before the HRMs came. You counted for 15
seconds
> multiplied by 4 and decided what your HR was and got up. Upon this
> information top athletes planned their training day! Or did they?
>
> How do those of you that monitor your morning HR handle this?
>
> --
> Perre "Confused"
>
> You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
>
>

Per Elmsäter

trg wrote:
> I get up in the morning, put on the strap, lie back down, wait a
> minute or two and do a check. it's pretty consistant from day to day
> (In my case, one too many beers the night before is more likely to
> have an influence than overtraining ). Two hour monitoring,
> especially during sleep cycles is too variable.
>

Thanks. This is what I need to hear because that is prabably what I'll do in
the future. My two hour recording during sleep is kind of just trying to
build a baseline to make observations from.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter

John Everett wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
> <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote:
>
>> How do those of you that monitor your morning HR handle this?
>
> Perhaps I'm a bit of a retro-grouch, but I'm still using the "15
> seconds times 4" method. I usually get 44bpm or 48bpm, but I don't get
> concerned if it's 52. I start worrying at 56 and above. That's
> precision enough for me. :-)
>

For some reason whenever I do this my HR aligns with the seconds hand on the
clock and start beating once every second. I always end up with a HR of 60
when I do it this way

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.