why not run continuous cable housing?

the blur

on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when water and
dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables, causing
poor responsiveness in braking and shifting, especially that last loop
of derailleur cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear derailleur on my new
bike to avoid water/grit. why do we put all these stops etc on a frame?



--

Sheldon Brown

the blur wrote:

> on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when water and
> dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables, causing
> poor responsiveness in braking and shifting, especially that last loop
> of derailleur cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
> uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear derailleur on my new
> bike to avoid water/grit. why do we put all these stops etc on a frame?

It saves a few grams of weight. Back in the day of unlined housing, it
probably also slightly reduced cable friction, but this is not the case
with modern cables/housings.

Another advantage, with the older, unlined housing: If the housing
stops were the good split type, you could pop the housing out and get
plenty of slack to allow you to re-lubricate the cable without deranging
the adjustments or messing with the anchor bolts. Since modern cable
setups don't require wet lube, this is now an academic issue.

Sheldon "Covering Up" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| If you only know Mussorgski's Pictures at an Exhibition |
| from the Ravel or Stokowski "colorized" versions, (with |
| orchestra) seek out the original piano solo version. |
| I think it is much superior! |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

daveornee

the blur wrote:
> on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when water and
> dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables, causing
> poor responsiveness in braking and shifting, especially that last loop
> of derailleur cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
> uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear derailleur on my new
> bike to avoid water/grit. why do we put all these stops etc on a frame?



It will work, depending on the housing and quality of installation.
Housing compresses more than the frame. You will still have
responsiveness issues with continuous housing runs. You will need to
find reliable fastening methods to keep the housing where it belongs.
The additional housing weight will cause more "clinking" sounds as the
housing contacts the frame. You need very sturdy housing to keep it from
being compressed at the frame fastening points. Slotted stops are made
so that you can easily pull out the cable housings and cables allowing
you to clean them a apply lubrication as appropriate. Have you read the
"cables" section of Sheldon Brown's web site?
http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html Good quality housing that is
properly prepared and sized makes a big difference. Water and dirt
intrusion are still a problem, but they aren't felt as much or as
quickly when they are done right. I really like to do the end trim with
a Dremel type tool and a cut-off wheel.



--

XTR40

I have always done this on the rear derailleur cable on my cyclocross bike.
The bike is in wet and muddy conditions more than I prefer, and this keeps it
shifting good!

the blur

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> the blur wrote:
> > on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when water and
> > dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables, causing
> > poor responsiveness in braking and shifting, especially that last loop
> > of derailleur cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just
> > running uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear derailleur
> > on my new bike to avoid water/grit. why do we put all these stops etc
> > on a frame?
> It saves a few grams of weight. Back in the day of unlined housing, it
> probably also slightly reduced cable friction, but this is not the case
> with modern cables/housings.
> Another advantage, with the older, unlined housing: If the housing stops
> were the good split type, you could pop the housing out and get plenty
> of slack to allow you to re- lubricate the cable without deranging the
> adjustments or messing with the anchor bolts. Since modern cable setups
> don't require wet lube, this is now an academic issue.
> Sheldon "Covering Up" Brown +----------------------------------------------------------
> -+
> | If you only know Mussorgski's Pictures at an Exhibition | from the
> | Ravel or Stokowski "colorized" versions, (with | orchestra) seek out
> | the original piano solo version. | I think it is much superior! |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------
> + Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244- 9772 FAX 617-244-
> 1041 http://harriscyclery.com/http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find
> parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com/http://captainbike.com
> http://sheldonbrown.com/http://sheldonbrown.com




so there's no good reason to keep doing it that way!?! i certainly don't
care about the few grams of extra housing on my bike, and with teflon
linings and no cable stops, there will be no reason to have to lube the
cable. now the cable stops are in the way of my continuous housing!
maybe i'll file them off. (not really)



--

(Pete Cresswell)

RE/
>I really like to do the end trim with
>a Dremel type tool and a cut-off wheel.

Anybody know how to get those nice little bugle shapes on
the poly lining - that prevent the lining from working it's
way out through the cable stops?

Looks like some sort of heated tool is used to melt the stuff
into that shape; but when I try it it either
isn't hot enough or it fries the tubing.
--
PeteCresswell

Peter Headland

> ...dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables
> ... especially that last loop of derailleur cable before the deraiileur.

There is a gadget called (I think) the "inchworm" that claims to fix
that issue. Sort of a rubber bellows/gaiter that seals the place the
inner enters the last loop of outer.

I have seen this thing advertised by various bike retailers on the Web
from time to time.

--
Peter Headland

jmm

> ...i'm thinking of just running uninterupted cable housings...

There are "kits" that allow you to enclose the inner cables between
stops with polyacetyl or polyimide tubing. They address muck
problems head on.

Jagwire makes one (in the '04 QBP catalog) that allows you to enclose
just about anyones 4-5mm cables. The extended "tips" on the special
ferrules are a little short to make it through some cable stops. These
Jagwire kits come with black between the stops shield tubing.

Avid Flackjacket cable sets include special ferrules with longer tips
and red between stop stop shield tubing. They don't include enough of
the special ferrules for some bikes, but will sell you more if you call
their customer service department. I like the Avid kits, and have
stripped black Teflon insullation from 10 AWG wire and used that where
I didn't particularly care for the appearance of their standard red
shield tubing.

With any of these special tipped ferrules, it might also be necessary to
open up the bottom of the slot on some cable stops with a small round
file. I've encountered some that had a proper round hole at the base of
the slot, and others that just had a straight slot (and mixtures of both
on the same bike).

One can sometimes hear the cables rattling around inside the shield
tubes, but I decided it wasn't really as big deal as some of the other
things that were making as much or more noise under the same conditions.

John



--

cheg

"the blur" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:8jSjc.15973$FS6.3733@fe18.usenetserver.com...
> on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when water and
> dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables, causing
> poor responsiveness in braking and shifting, especially that last loop
> of derailleur cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
> uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear derailleur on my new
> bike to avoid water/grit. why do we put all these stops etc on a frame?
>
>
>
> --
>
>

I'm running full length housings on this bike:

http://cheg01.home.comcast.net/r20.html

It does not have any frame stops. 600 miles so far and no shifting problems with
a Sachs 3X7 hub

Michael Dart

In news:8jSjc.15973$FS6.3733@fe18.usenetserver.com,
the blur <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> typed:
> on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when water and
> dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables, causing
> poor responsiveness in braking and shifting, especially that last loop
> of derailleur cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just
> running uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear
> derailleur on my new bike to avoid water/grit. why do we put all
> these stops etc on a frame?

I run it that way on both my DH bikes. No problems.

Mike

Doug Goncz

>From: Sheldon Brown captbike@sheldonbrown.com

>| If you only know Mussorgski's Pictures at an Exhibition |
>| from the Ravel or Stokowski "colorized" versions, (with |
>| orchestra) seek out the original piano solo version. |
>| I think it is much superior!

Oh, yes, it's delightful! The orchestra is never as flexible as the soloist. I
love the nuances of the piano versions I have heard. The orchestra tends to
plod and shout.

Also, look for various artist's interpretations of The Gates of Kiev, and the
other pictures referred to. I believe all were painted after Mussorgsky did his
writing, inspired by his music.

I prefer steel on steel, well lubricated with light oil, to the modern plastic
linings. I think SIS is designed to shift with SIS cable of specific length at
shifter and derailer. But that's an indexing system, and so it is best not to
tinker with it.

When I worked at the Washington post nights slipping the ad packets into the
paper, we'd lose conveyor belting nightly. Sproing! It would fatigue and break.
They threw a lot out and I'd use it as cable sheathing. It was unlined inside
and out but then I never rode in the wet then.

I have a boot on my V-brakes on the cable run from the noodle to the clamp. A
similar boot would allow the weight savings of an unsheathed cable run with the
cleanliness of the fully sheathed run.

To braze a cable end for later ease of maintenance, use a vertical butane
flame, not a lighter, but a small butane torch. Heat the cable end and form a
ball of borax flux on the end. Heat that red holding it from above but not
directly vertical, while preheating the 1/16 inch or thinner bronze rod, and
apply the rod to the red hot cable. Just a touch is all you need. The bronze
should run down to the cable end.

You'll find you can clip and file the end, and have a really nicely trimmed
cable, but this is only if you really like removing the cable, cleaning it,
inspecting it, oiling it, and replacing it. With liners and clamp on cable
tips, you never have to pull the cable through the sheathing.


Yours,

Doug Goncz ( ftp://users.aol.com/DGoncz/ )

My physics project at NVCC:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=dgoncz&scoring=d plus
"bicycle", "fluorescent", "inverter", "flywheel", "ultracapacitor", etc.
in the search box

Greg Estep

On 28 Apr 2004 17:49:42 -0700, Peter Headland wrote:

>> ...dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables
>> ... especially that last loop of derailleur cable before the deraiileur.
>
> There is a gadget called (I think) the "inchworm" that claims to fix
> that issue. Sort of a rubber bellows/gaiter that seals the place the
> inner enters the last loop of outer.
>
> I have seen this thing advertised by various bike retailers on the Web
> from time to time.

You may be thinking of the SRAM Nightcrawler. You can see a picture at
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/drive.html
near the end of the page.

FYI, The QBP part number is DP5516. I would imagine that almost any LBS
could get one

--
Greg Estep

dvt

(Pete Cresswell) wrote:
> Anybody know how to get those nice little bugle shapes on
> the poly lining - that prevent the lining from working it's
> way out through the cable stops?

While the end is still hot from cutting it with a Dremel tool, stick a
nail of proper diameter in the hole. Sheldon's web page will get you
that far, I think.

My little addition is to use a finish nail, which has a taper from the
shank to the head. The taper imparts a bit of a chamfer to the end of
the housing.

Just make sure the nail is ready and waiting so you can strike while the
iron is hot.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Mark Wheaton

A sealed cable system would solve most of these problems. Gore used to make
a good sealed cable system but they are no longer available. Dry Cable
systems are a good sealed cable system option.

http://webpages.charter.net/drycables/Home


"the blur" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:8jSjc.15973$FS6.3733@fe18.usenetserver.com...
> on my last mountain bike, the most annoying thing was when water and
> dirt would get in the ends of the brake and derailleur cables, causing
> poor responsiveness in braking and shifting, especially that last loop
> of derailleur cable before the deraiileur. i'm thinking of just running
> uninterupted cable housings for the brakes and rear derailleur on my new
> bike to avoid water/grit. why do we put all these stops etc on a frame?
>
>
>
> --
>
>