South West trains doesn't want cyclists as 'customers'...

Howard

Hi folks,

From Carlton Reids excellent 'Bikebiz' site... (
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk ).

Cycle commuters be damned, South West Trains doesn't want
you.

The BikeBiz editor has just returned from a press trip to
Switzerland. Swiss trains allow the carriage of bicycles -
positively encourages it, in fact - and are famously
punctual. Here in the UK, a leaked document from South West
Trains reveals that the company believes the carriage of
cycles should be further restricted because it can "have a
significant impact on train service performance." In
Switzerland, there's a truly integrated transport system,
here it's a shambles. Shocking, really.

"Whilst South West Trains recognises the benefits of an
integrated transport system and the positive benefits of
cycling, this has to be weighed up against the business
needs of providing seating to passengers during peak times,"
says Michelle Kynaston, the Cycle Policy Project Manager for
South West Trains, in her company's Cycle Policy Proposal.

"Please do not circulate the proposal to the media," urged
Kynaston, aware of the fact that bad news spreads faster
than good.

The devil is in the detail: cyclists - it appears from the
leaked document - are not welcome. Want to take the train
to London and then get to work the rest of the way by bike?
Better do it after 10am, an extension to the already
draconian cycle carriage restrictions. And South West
Trains want to extend the geographical reach, too.
Train/cycle commuters in Alton and Basingstoke can kiss
their journeys good-bye.

A privatised rail network, now that's an idea that'll work,
thought the Tories. Shame on Sir George Young, the Bicycling
Baronet. He aided and abetted a policy that resulted in the
mess we're in now.

Full document here:

CYCLE POLICY PROPOSAL JUNE 2004

South West Trains

Cycle Policy Proposal

1. Confidentiality
1.1. This information is provided so you have an opportunity
to comment on the cycle policy proposal. Once we have
completed the consultation process and finalised the
cycle policy then the appropriate publication of the
policy will take place. Please do not circulate the
proposal to the media.

2. Correspondence
2.1. All correspondence relating to this document should be
sent to Michelle Kynaston Cycle Policy Project Manager
Floor 6 41-45 Blackfriars Road London SE1 8NZ Or by E –
mail Mkynaston@swtrains.co.uk The deadline for a
response is 21st July 2004

3. Introduction
3.1. South West Trains is currently reviewing the existing
Cycle Policy during peak times, Monday to Friday. This
is due to the increasing numbers of passengers using
the train service during the peaks. South West Trains
has seen an 11% increase in passenger numbers from 2002
to 2003. The Central London job market continues to
grow with our passenger forecast during peak times
increasing in line with employment demand.

3.2. Peak trains have always been busy but are getting
busier and there is a conflict of interest between
passenger seating and cycle carriage on many peak South
West Trains' services. The proposal seeks to address
this and to ensure that expectations of cyclists and
other passengers are clearly understood before they
board the train.

3.3. The Cycle Policy review does not affect carriage of
folding cycles that can be stowed as luggage, they can
be carried on all South West Trains' services or cycles
left at stations prior to travel.

4. Background
4.1. On South West Trains' services each modern type of
train now maximises the number of seats available in
each carriage. Cycle storage on trains during the peak
periods is extremely limited with a conflict of
interest for cyclists and passengers. The space
provided for cycles on many of South West Trains'
services is dual purpose, providing extra seating
during busy times. This can cause friction between
passengers and cyclists as seating is adaptable to
cycle storage
4.2. Cyclists joining and alighting busy trains can at
times have a significant impact on train service
performance. This can cause further delays to other
train services due to the intensity of the service
during the peak times.

4.3. Whilst South West Trains recognises the benefits of an
integrated transport system and the positive benefits
of cycling, this has to be weighed up against the
business needs of providing seating to passengers
during peak times.

4.4. The SRA has recently published their cycling policy
which they consulted on and it can be accessed through
their website www.sra.gov.uk.

5. Current Policy
5.1. The current South West Trains' policy is:

i) In the area bounded by Dorking, Reading, Woking and
Guildford, cycles may not be carried towards London
between 07.45 and 09.45 and leaving London between
16.30 and 19.30, Monday to Friday.

ii) Reservations apply at all times on the West of
England line.

iii) Cycles are permitted on all other South West Trains'
services subject to space availability. We give guards
the right to refuse to carry any further cycles where
the available identified cycle spaces on the train are
already taken.

iv) Folding cycles that can be stowed as luggage can be
carried on any South West Trains' service at any time.

6. Cycle Policy Proposal
6.1. The cycle policy proposal is set out below, please
refer to South West Trains' maps Appendix A and B
highlighting the proposal.

i) Extend the area up to and including Alton and
Basingstoke where cycles are not permitted for
carriage on South West Trains' services, Monday to
Friday. The existing boundary stations of Dorking,
Reading and Guildford remain. The area to include
Guildford to Ascot branch line.

ii) Extend the time cycles are not permitted for carriage
on South West Trains' services in the area stated
above from start of service until 10.00 and between
16.30 and 19.30. This includes all services within the
area in either direction. This will incorporate the
majority of services on the network where there is a
conflict of interest between cycle storage versus
passenger seating.

iii) Introduce free Cycle Reservations (outside the area in
6.1i) on mainline peak services. All mainline services
leaving London Waterloo between 16.30 and 19.30 will
require a cycle reservation and Appendix C lists the
peak services that will require a cycle reservation

iv) Only passengers with season tickets longer than
weeklies can apply for a cycle reservation. The cycle
season ticket will last the duration of the travel
season ticket and will be issued through our Customer
Service Centre at Southampton. Cycle season tickets
and labelling for the cycles will be sent out as part
of the reservation.

v) It is intended that the cycle reservation scheme will
run as a pilot with a full review prior to the
introduction of the Winter Timetable in December.

vi) Reservations apply at all times on the West of England
line as now and there is no change to the current
process of reserving cycles on these services.

vii) Folding Cycles that can be stowed as luggage can be
carried on any South West Trains service at any time.

viii) Cycles are permitted free of charge on all other South
West Trains' services except where for reason of
safety and comfort of our passengers, if the available
identified cycle spaces on the train are already
taken, the guard has the right to refuse to carry any
further cycles on that train.

6.2. After the introduction of the cycle policy, any
services on the network where there is significant
conflict of interest over passenger seating and cycle
storage, a train specific cycle ban may be introduced.
Where this occurs consultation will take place with
relevant local authorities and cycle user groups.

6.3. Clearly it is important in light of the cycle policy
proposal that we continue to improve cycle storage and
security at stations. This year so far additional cycle
storage has been installed at Addlestone, Egham,
Chertsey, Richmond, Norbiton and Surbiton. There are
further plans for Basingstoke, Brookwood, Farnborough,
Fleet and Woking. CCTV cameras are to be installed at
Liss and Poole improving security.

6.4. Many improvements are made in partnership with
local authorities and we are actively looking for
similar schemes that will improve cycle facilities
at our stations.

7. Consultation
7.1. We recognise this is a significant change to the
existing cycle policy and are consulting over 100
people/organisations before concluding our views and
implementation. The consultation includes cyclist user
groups, MPs, rail passenger user groups and councils.

7.2 . We are also running a poster and leaflet campaign
aimed at cyclists who carry their cycles on South West
Trains' services during June. All cyclists who submit
their mailing details will be kept informed of the
policy changes. Appendix D refers.

8. Implementation
8.1. Proposed implementation date is either the 6th or 13th
September 2004.

8.2. Once the policy is finalised there will be a second
poster and leaflet campaign advising cyclists of the
changes. This will be supported by customer information
systems, on train announcements and additional
staff/managers' presence on stations and trains.

Simonb

Howard wrote:

> the company believes the carriage of cycles should be
> further restricted because it can "have a significant
> impact on train service performance."

I used SW Trains on the Waterloo - Weymouth line for years,
and it was great. Until they removed the mail cages (which
were fine for carrying bikes -- lots of room, double doors)
and introduced bike 'hangers' in the pokey guard's office.
These hangers make taking bikes on and off the train a very
lengthy business -- no wonder they have an impact on service
performance.

I really hate what's happening to our public transport
infrastrucure.

citydreams

may i refer you to this?

http://www.cyclingforums.com/showth...threadid=139046

Dirtylitterboxo

>I really hate what's happening to our public transport
>infrastrucure.

It has to be said...

... What public transport infrastructure???

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get
correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel
is switched off--

Jon Senior

In article <20040709112917.29725.00001144@mb-m18.aol.com>,
wafflycathcs@aol.comcomcom says...
> ... What public transport infrastructure???

The private one! :-)

Jon

Simonb

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

> It has to be said...
>
> ... What public transport infrastructure???

It's still there, I use it very regularly. It's just that
the people running the services seem to prefer I didn't.

J. Chisholm

Simonb wrote:
>
> Howard wrote:
>
> > the company believes the carriage of cycles should be
> > further restricted because it can "have a significant
> > impact on train service performance."
>
> I used SW Trains on the Waterloo - Weymouth line for
> years, and it was great. Until they removed the mail cages
> (which were fine for carrying bikes -- lots of room,
> double doors) and introduced bike 'hangers' in the pokey
> guard's office. These hangers make taking bikes on and off
> the train a very lengthy business -- no wonder they have
> an impact on service performance.
>
> I really hate what's happening to our public transport
> infrastrucure.

That's the problem. We don't have a 'service' just something
to enable someone to make a profit.

I've been a commuting cyclist for 35 years but rarely take
my bike on a peak hour train.

BUT

In Cambridgeshire, where cyclists are many, a passenger
complained to the authorities that in the event of an
incident the number of bikes in doorways would hinder
evacuation of train. Some trains to Cambridge in the peak
might carry over 16 bikes. Bikes were then banned from peak
hour services. In fact many Cambridge commuters have two
bikes, one for each end of the trip. When you can pick up a
serviceable bike for £25 AND there is adequate cycle parking
at both ends this is often a good alternative.

I'm afraid in these days you have no RIGHT to put a bike on
a train for no charge, and those who think they have even
when this deprives passengers of space, and then create a
fuss, are likely to foster the removal of the privilege to
take bikes for free on off peak trains.

I can remember the days when a bike attracted half fare
unless it was a Bickerton even on off peak trains.

I'd suggest that getting TOCs, SRA, and LAs to provide good
secure cycle parking as a priority for bothe ends of trips
is a better use of effort. (Just hope that TRANSEC doesn't
get it closed a day after it is opened!)

Jim Chisholm

Anonymous

"citydreams" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
newsVyHc.44541$1W5.1383@fe15.usenetserver.com...
> may i refer you to this?
>
> http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadi-
> d=139046

You may not realise this, but the cyclingforums site you
refer to is just a way of getting to the newsgroup
uk.rec.cycling. So you should say 'see thread entitled
National Campaign - let's do it', so the majority of readers
don't need to open a new browser window.

cheers, clive

Lozz

> Cycle commuters be damned, South West Trains doesn't
> want you.

Cyclist without folding bikes should be banned from peak
hour trains. Cyclists and their bikes take up valuable space
on trains that could be used for a greater number of non-
cycling passengers. This is economic reality. Non-folding
cycles also obstruct access to doorways and along platforms
at a time when there are large flows of passengers.

I'm not saying that railway companies should be doing
nothing for cyclists. They should be adapting trains to
carry more cycles off-peak with tip-up seats etc. and they
should be making much more of an effort to improve cycle
access to stations, as well as adding better facilities at
stations (e.g. secure storage).

Cyclists would be much better off campaigning for something
that is realistic. I say this as someone who has some
involevement with railway companies, cycling campaigns and
local councils.

Dirtylitterboxo

>Cyclist without folding bikes should be banned from peak
>hour trains.

Funny that last summer in Cologne, where the commuter trams
ran on time, and lots of people with bikes got on and off,
it didn't seem to stop the trams running on time and bother
people getting on or off, or along the platforms, didn't
stop lots of people using the trams...

Funny how we can't seme to manage it on this side of the
Channel, when on the other side, in lots of places they seem
to get an integrated public transport service running that
accommodates bikes and people well, and on time, be they
train or tram and where people use the facilites.

I think we could be learning a lot from across the channel
on this issue.

Cheers, helen s


--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get
correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel
is switched off--

-Lsqnot Respond

On 09 Jul 2004 15:29:17 GMT, wafflycathcs@aol.comcomcom
(dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote:

>>I really hate what's happening to our public transport
>>infrastrucure.
>
>It has to be said...
>
>... What public transport infrastructure???
>

There's a pretty good one covering most of the UK
population. Unfortunately, too many people have made
themselves car dependant[1] without noticing the fact.

[1] Either through life style choices such as living in the
country and working/studying/shopping in town or through
simply getting used to the luxuries of private space, CD
players etc that cars offer and falsely believing that
travel cannot be accomplished without these.

Not that I have anything against people spending their cash
on luxuries such as travelling in private or rural dormitory
living. I just get irked when these people then go on to say
that travel without a car is crap or impossible.

Tumbleweed

"Lozz" <nospam@nospam.spam> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b58da0e13bbf718989697@text.news.virgin.net...
> > Cycle commuters be damned, South West Trains doesn't
> > want you.
>
> Cyclist without folding bikes should be banned from peak
> hour trains. Cyclists and their bikes take up valuable
> space on trains that could be used for a greater number of
> non-cycling passengers. This is economic reality. Non-
> folding cycles also obstruct access to doorways and along
> platforms at a time when there are large flows of
> passengers.

Thats only because the rail companies have designed it that
way!

> I'm not saying that railway companies should be doing
> nothing for cyclists. They should be adapting trains to
> carry more cycles off-peak with tip-up seats etc. and they
> should be making much more of an effort to improve cycle
> access to stations, as well as adding better facilities at
> stations (e.g. secure storage).

Why not adapt trains to carry more cyclists at peak times?
THough secure storage wouldnt bea bad idea but really woud
only work at stations taht had 24-hour attendance unless the
storage was prohibitively expensive.,

>
> Cyclists would be much better off campaigning for
> something that is realistic.

Why isnt it realistic if other countries can do it, indeed
encourage it?

> I say this as someone who has some involevement with
> railway companies, cycling campaigns and local councils.

Ah, now I see why it isnt realistic, because people like you
are involved with railway companies etc.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Michael Macclan

On 09 Jul 2004 16:40:05 GMT, dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

>>Cyclist without folding bikes should be banned from peak
>>hour trains.
>
> Funny that last summer in Cologne, where the commuter
> trams ran on time, and lots of people with bikes got on
> and off, it didn't seem to stop the trams running on time
> and bother people getting on or off, or along the
> platforms, didn't stop lots of people using the trams...
>
But even in Cologne it's not quite this easy. Weekdays,
bikes are only allowed on trams and local trains between 09:00-
15:30 and from 18:00. They are only allowed on buses 09:00-
12:00 and from 18:00. You also have to pay ¤2 extra for the
bike per journey although season ticket holders can take
them free at certain times.

Folders can be taken as free hand luggage.
--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "He had delusions of
adequacy." - Walter Kerr www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Michael Macclan

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 18:14:46 +0100, Michael MacClancy wrote:

> On 09 Jul 2004 16:40:05 GMT,
> dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
>
>>>Cyclist without folding bikes should be banned from peak
>>>hour trains.
>>
>> Funny that last summer in Cologne, where the commuter
>> trams ran on time, and lots of people with bikes got on
>> and off, it didn't seem to stop the trams running on time
>> and bother people getting on or off, or along the
>> platforms, didn't stop lots of people using the trams...
>>
> But even in Cologne it's not quite this easy. Weekdays,
> bikes are only allowed on trams and local trains between
> 09:00-15:30 and from 18:00. They are only allowed on buses
> 09:00-12:00 and from 18:00. You also have to pay ¤2 extra
> for the bike per journey although season ticket holders
> can take them free at certain times.
>
> Folders can be taken as free hand luggage.

Sorry, but it appears that the situation in Cologne has now
changed (I was looking at a website that is outdated). The
VRS site now says that bikes can be taken on all public
transport with no time restrictions although there is no
right of carriage. The driver decides if there is sufficient
room and can refuse to allow you onto the vehicle with your
bike. Wheelchair users and prams have priority. The ¤2
charge still applies.
--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "He is not only dull
himself, he is the cause of dullness in others." -Samuel
Johnson www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk