Fork recommendation

Dan Lissit

Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is
a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
Thanks, Dan

Paul Southworth

In article <8609937f.0407081229.31eb32c4@posting.google.com>,
Dan Lissit <dlissit@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
>myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is
>a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
>should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
>forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
>anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?

Under $200 I think you are looking at a Winwood Muddy Cross
http://www.winwoodbikeparts.com/muddyX.html

Dan Daniel

On 8 Jul 2004 13:29:30 -0700, dlissit@yahoo.com (Dan Lissit) wrote:

>Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
>myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda is
>a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
>should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
>forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
>anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
>Thanks, Dan

Surly and other companies sell steel forks-

http://www.surlybikes.com/forks.html

Bike shops often have take-off forks from when people switch
to carbon, etc. Call around.

Hope the dooring didn't hurt you. The one time I have
bene doored, there was $80 damage to my bike and $2000+
to the car.

Mark Hickey

cnhyf-1089000001@usenet.etext.org (Paul Southworth) wrote:

>In article
><8609937f.0407081229.31eb32c4@posting.google.com>, Dan
>Lissit <dlissit@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
>>myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda
>>is a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
>>should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
>>forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
>>anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
>
>Under $200 I think you are looking at a Winwood Muddy Cross
>http://www.winwoodbikeparts.com/muddyX.html

Be VERY careful with that fork... I used to have offer
the Muddy Cross until I sold a couple 'cross frames with
the Winwood fork. Both customers complained about severe
brake shudder. To be safe I offered to swap out the
forks, and actually built a 'cross bike for myself using
the Winwood (mainly to test the fork - but hey, it's
still another bike!).

Holy moly. The bike is sitting unridden in my garage - FAR
too scary to ride. I mounted some 32mm knobbies, and under
braking I could see the knobs "stop" like they were under a
strobe light... kinda like a demonic Antilock Braking
System gone bad.

For a while I thought the problem was a slight bit of
play in the canti posts, but I eliminated that altogether
and it's STILL the same. I swapped the Avid Shorty's out
for a tried and tested pair of Ritchey (Diacompe) cantis
- still the same.

IMHO, the fork legs are far too "flat" to resist the
considerable torque from the cantis under braking. So you
get an oscillation as the brakes grab, rotate and release,
then grab again... several times a second.

FWIW, I'm going to put a Kinesis Crosslight on the bike -
about the same weight and MUCH stiffer (and I've never had a
complaint).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
the $695 ti frame

Dan Lissit

Dan Daniel <ddandan.remove@pacbell.net> wrote in message news:<fdese0pj0vggprsn9kh0u8h2smeqeshp1n@4ax.com>...
> On 8 Jul 2004 13:29:30 -0700, dlissit@yahoo.com (Dan
> Lissit) wrote:
>
> >Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
> >myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda
> >is a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
> >should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
> >forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
> >anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
> >Thanks, Dan
>
> Surly and other companies sell steel forks-
>
> http://www.surlybikes.com/forks.html
>
> Bike shops often have take-off forks from when people
> switch to carbon, etc. Call around.
>
> Hope the dooring didn't hurt you. The one time I have
> bene doored, there was $80 damage to my bike and $2000+
> to the car.

Thanks for asking. I wish I'd been as lucky as you. I ended
up with a broken collar bone (left) and broken wrist
(right). Good thing percocet plugs you up so efficiently:
that's one service I didn't want to ask of my wife! After 8
weeks the cast just came off my wrist on Wednesday, so I'm
finally ready to deal with getting back in the saddle.

Self hijack: was my endo entirely my doing, or might it have
been related to the state my fork is currently in? I've been
kind of sheepish about the whole accident, never having endo-
ed before despite plenty of emergency stops. I was on my
homeward commute (Rhode Island Ave, DC), using the curb lane
which was about 50/50 parked cars/open. Coming up on a line
of traffic waiting at a light when a passenger in a taxi in
the through lane decided to get out. I thought I had a
chance of squeezing past between the door and the parked
car, and was braking while steering for the gap. Suddenly, I
was airborn. The odd part is that I really don't think I was
panicked: in fact neither I nor my bike-- which landed 10
feet in front of me-- hit the door. So there probably was
enough room to get by. Is it possible that the cause was the
fork failing under extreme braking (both arms are creased
just enough for the wheel to contact the frame), rather than
me locking the wheel and my momentum causing the failure?
I've been planning on calling the passenger, who's in the
police report, to ask if he'll pay for the repairs to my
bike, but it occurred to me that maybe Jamis might be
willing to replace it if this was an equipment failure. I
weigh 175# by the way-- or did before the 8 weeks on my butt--
if that figures into the analysis.

Russell Seaton

dlissit@yahoo.com (Dan Lissit) wrote in message news:<8609937f.0407081229.31eb32c4@posting.google.com>...
> Thanks to a car door opened on my left in traffic, I find
> myself in need of a new fork for my Jamis Coda. The Coda
> is a hybrid, and I'm not interested in suspension. Where
> should I be looking for possible candidates? Are the road
> forks going to take v-brakes and up to 35mm tires? Can
> anyone suggest a decent carbon-fiber fork for under $200?
> Thanks, Dan

For many possible candidates go over to Harris Cyclery
website and look at the Quality Bicycle Products catalog
online. QBP. It lists many hybrid/trekking/cross forks.
All with cantilever studs. Your local bike shop can order
any of these.

David Reuteler

Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
> Be VERY careful with that fork... I used to have offer
> the Muddy Cross until I sold a couple 'cross frames with
> the Winwood fork. Both customers complained about severe
> brake shudder. To be safe I offered to swap out the
> forks, and actually built a 'cross bike for myself using
> the Winwood (mainly to test the fork - but hey, it's
> still another bike!).

ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of this
fork & with the same cantis as before it markedly *reduced*
brake shudder. i had 3" 20hz shudder before. anyway, it
still was too much for comfort so i threw on the disc brake
(which was the backup plan) and that fixed it.

> Holy moly. The bike is sitting unridden in my garage - FAR
> too scary to ride. I mounted some 32mm knobbies, and under
> braking I could see the knobs "stop" like they were under
> a strobe light... kinda like a demonic Antilock Braking
> System gone bad.

people never believed me 'til i showed 'em. scary as shit.

> For a while I thought the problem was a slight bit of play
> in the canti posts, but I eliminated that altogether and
> it's STILL the same. I swapped the Avid Shorty's out for a
> tried and tested pair of Ritchey (Diacompe) cantis - still
> the same.

a brake bridge made it worse. tried 4 brakes, 4 brake pads,
2 forks, chris king headset ok. worse in wet & humid
conditions.

> IMHO, the fork legs are far too "flat" to resist the
> considerable torque from the cantis under braking. So you
> get an oscillation as the brakes grab, rotate and release,
> then grab again... several times a second.

i'm not so sure. tried both forks on others bikes and they
were ok (even with me @ 175lb on it). my bike is a ti seven.
bicycling had a review of my frame that also made the fork
shudder complaint. neither of the two bikes i tried the
forks on were ti (steel & aluminum) but i realise i'm
reaching here.

> FWIW, I'm going to put a Kinesis Crosslight on the bike -
> about the same weight and MUCH stiffer (and I've never had
> a complaint).

i'd be interested in your results .. on the same bike. maybe
a massively overengineered fork will fix the problem, but i
suspect there's another factor involved that necessitates
it. those forks worked ok on other bikes. and no, no, no,
it's not the headset.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com

David Reuteler

David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com> wrote:
> ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
> fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of
> this fork

i should mention that the independent fabrications fork
was steel.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com

sfcommuter

If you want a steel fork, I recommend the Kona P2.

Mark Hickey

David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com> wrote:

>Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>> Be VERY careful with that fork... I used to have offer
>> the Muddy Cross until I sold a couple 'cross frames with
>> the Winwood fork. Both customers complained about severe
>> brake shudder. To be safe I offered to swap out the
>> forks, and actually built a 'cross bike for myself using
>> the Winwood (mainly to test the fork - but hey, it's
>> still another bike!).
>
>ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
>fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of this
>fork & with the same cantis as before it markedly *reduced*
>brake shudder.

The Winwood disc-ready carbon fork seems to be a lot beefier
than the canti version. I'd expect it to have less problem
with shudder, at least if you installed disc brakes.

> i had 3" 20hz shudder before. anyway, it still was too
> much for comfort so i threw on the disc brake (which was
> the backup plan) and that fixed it.
>
>> Holy moly. The bike is sitting unridden in my garage -
>> FAR too scary to ride. I mounted some 32mm knobbies, and
>> under braking I could see the knobs "stop" like they were
>> under a strobe light... kinda like a demonic Antilock
>> Braking System gone bad.
>
>people never believed me 'til i showed 'em. scary as shit.

More than I would have believed before I test rode the bike
in front of the house.

>> IMHO, the fork legs are far too "flat" to resist the
>> considerable torque from the cantis under braking. So you
>> get an oscillation as the brakes grab, rotate and
>> release, then grab again... several times a second.
>
>i'm not so sure. tried both forks on others bikes and they
>were ok (even with me @ 175lb on it). my bike is a ti
>seven. bicycling had a review of my frame that also made
>the fork shudder complaint. neither of the two bikes i
>tried the forks on were ti (steel & aluminum) but i realise
>i'm reaching here.
>
>> FWIW, I'm going to put a Kinesis Crosslight on the bike -
>> about the same weight and MUCH stiffer (and I've never
>> had a complaint).
>
>i'd be interested in your results .. on the same bike.
>maybe a massively overengineered fork will fix the problem,
>but i suspect there's another factor involved that
>necessitates it. those forks worked ok on other bikes. and
>no, no, no, it's not the headset.

I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically identical
to the road bikes I sell. And I've never had complaints of
brake shudder from any of the other forks that I've sold
with my 'cross frames. Kinda hard to imagine the frame being
much of a player in the equation (especially since they're
on the "stiff side" compared to most frames).

But it is VERY interesting that you were able to
successfully use the same forks on different frames without
a problem. I can only assume that increasing the head tube
angle (making it steeper) would tend to exacerbate a shudder
problem... is there a difference in HT angle between your ti
Seven and the other frames?

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
the $695 ti frame

David Reuteler

Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>>ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
>>fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of this
>>fork & with the same cantis as before it markedly
>>*reduced* brake shudder.
>
> The Winwood disc-ready carbon fork seems to be a lot
> beefier than the canti version. I'd expect it to have
> less problem with shudder, at least if you installed
> disc brakes.

just to be explicit there is absolutely no trace of shudder
when using a disc brake (which is what i'm doing) and less
with the cantis with this fork than with the steel
independent fabrications fork.

> I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically
> identical to the road bikes I sell. And I've never had
> complaints of brake shudder from any of the other forks
> that I've sold with my 'cross frames. Kinda hard to
> imagine the frame being much of a player in the equation
> (especially since they're on the "stiff side" compared to
> most frames).
>
> But it is VERY interesting that you were able to
> successfully use the same forks on different frames
> without a problem. I can only assume that increasing the
> head tube angle (making it steeper) would tend to
> exacerbate a shudder problem... is there a difference in
> HT angle between your ti Seven and the other frames?

the head-tube angle (says seven) is 73.5 degrees which is
comparatively steep to the the independent fabrications
planet cross (@ 71.5 or 72.0 degrees) and the surly @ 72.0
but the same as yours (73.5 in my size .. ~58cm).

and so the plot stinkens.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com

Mark Hickey

David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com> wrote:

>Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>>>ahhh, fork shudder. fwiw, i swapped out an independent
>>>fabrications cross fork for the disc brake version of
>>>this fork & with the same cantis as before it markedly
>>>*reduced* brake shudder.
>>
>> The Winwood disc-ready carbon fork seems to be a lot
>> beefier than the canti version. I'd expect it to have
>> less problem with shudder, at least if you installed disc
>> brakes.
>
>just to be explicit there is absolutely no trace of shudder
>when using a disc brake (which is what i'm doing) and less
>with the cantis with this fork than with the steel
>independent fabrications fork.

I'm not too surprised - it looks a LOT beefier than the
Winwood "non-disc" 'cross fork. And I wouldn't expect any
shudder with disc brakes, though I guess it's
theoretically possible.

>> I dunno... the front end of the bike is basically
>> identical to the road bikes I sell. And I've never had
>> complaints of brake shudder from any of the other forks
>> that I've sold with my 'cross frames. Kinda hard to
>> imagine the frame being much of a player in the equation
>> (especially since they're on the "stiff side" compared to
>> most frames).
>>
>> But it is VERY interesting that you were able to
>> successfully use the same forks on different frames
>> without a problem. I can only assume that increasing the
>> head tube angle (making it steeper) would tend to
>> exacerbate a shudder problem... is there a difference in
>> HT angle between your ti Seven and the other frames?
>
>the head-tube angle (says seven) is 73.5 degrees which is
>comparatively steep to the the independent fabrications
>planet cross (@ 71.5 or 72.0 degrees) and the surly @ 72.0
>but the same as yours (73.5 in my size .. ~58cm).
>
>and so the plot stinkens.

That almost makes sense - a steeper HT angle would require
less vertical movement of the fork's dropouts when it was
tempted to shudder... or another way to look at it is the
tire would more effectively damp the tendency to shudder the
slacker the HT angle.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
the $695 ti frame

Ed

In article <40eef31e$0$229$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>,
David Reuteler says...
>ahhh, fork shudder.

I changed wheels and got a good case of fork shudder. It has
gradully dimished and is almost gone. i assume brake pad
wear is fixing it. If it happened again I would try sanding
the brake pads and maybe the rim.

David Reuteler

Ed <Ed_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> In article <40eef31e$0$229$a1866201@newsreader.visi.com>,
> David Reuteler says...
>>ahhh, fork shudder.
>
> I changed wheels and got a good case of fork shudder. It
> has gradully dimished and is almost gone. i assume brake
> pad wear is fixing it. If it happened again I would try
> sanding the brake pads and maybe the rim.

sorry, i forgot to mention i tried bontrager fairlanes,
velocity deep v's, mavic open pros and campagnolo shamals, 4
brake pads, i cleaned and dirtied pads and rims all of it
with varying degrees of brake shudder.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com