Pele, Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan?!

Chris

I heard a promo for the Roll\Trautwik coverage and Bob Roll
stated "...if Lance wins a 6th Tour, it will put him on the
same level as PEle, Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan".

Well, I assume that Lance is a bettter cyclist than those
others but I think he meant that Lance would be to
cycling what these others mean to their respective
sports. Hmm, a bit of hyperbole perhaps? Maybe Roll has
speant too much time with Al (I don't need to know how to
spell his last name)...

Does anyone think that Lance will be "the best ever"? If so
(ok, by one measure I will give you that) but can anyone
make the argument that even begins to support Roll's
statement?

I don't think so and I am throwing down the gauntlet. Let's
assume Lance wins this year and I will give you 4 stage wins
(as an assumption for your argument). How can anyone support
this stagement about Armstrong? There is only one Pele in
cycling and that is Eddy Merckx. Lance is the only 5 time
winner to have failed to win any other GT!!! Put that in
your pipe and smoke it because what that means that Lance
MUST win this Tour to even be considered in the same class
as the rest of the 5 time winners and that is the truth.
Every other winner won at least *2* other GTs so I guess we
can (in a generous mood) allow that oine Tour can equal to
other GT wins from eras past (although Indurain won to
modern Giros, no small feat).

What say you blind American Lance worshippers?

Mark & Steven B

Chris wrote:

> I heard a promo for the Roll\Trautwik coverage and Bob
> Roll stated "...if Lance wins a 6th Tour, it will put him
> on the same level as PEle, Tiger Woods and Michael
> Jordan".
>
> Well, I assume that Lance is a bettter cyclist than those
> others but I think he meant that Lance would be to cycling
> what these others mean to their respective sports. Hmm, a
> bit of hyperbole perhaps? Maybe Roll has speant too much
> time with Al (I don't need to know how to spell his last
> name)...
>
> Does anyone think that Lance will be "the best ever"? If
> so (ok, by one measure I will give you that) but can
> anyone make the argument that even begins to support
> Roll's statement?
>
> I don't think so and I am throwing down the gauntlet.
> Let's assume Lance wins this year and I will give you 4
> stage wins (as an assumption for your argument). How can
> anyone support this stagement about Armstrong? There is
> only one Pele in cycling and that is Eddy Merckx. Lance is
> the only 5 time winner to have failed to win any other
> GT!!! Put that in your pipe and smoke it because what that
> means that Lance MUST win this Tour to even be considered
> in the same class as the rest of the 5 time winners and
> that is the truth. Every other winner won at least *2*
> other GTs so I guess we can (in a generous mood) allow
> that oine Tour can equal to other GT wins from eras past
> (although Indurain won to modern Giros, no small feat).
>
> What say you blind American Lance worshippers?
>
>

As Olivier said to Tony Curtis in Spartacus, some
men like snails AND oysters.

Steve

Vernon

Lance can't be considered the best racer ever, sorry
to Roll-o.

I second your vote: Eddie Merckx has to be considered The
Best:

World Road champ 5 times, once as amateur. Super Presitige
Pernod 7 straight Tour de France 5 times in 6 years Giro 5
times Milan San Remo 7 times (record) Tour, Giro, and World
in the SAME YEAR 1974 (only one ever do it) Tour and Giro in
same year 3 times 70. 72. 74. World Hour Record 1972

And all done without much of a support structure or the
heavy dollar commitment we see around Lance. No $10k TT
bikes, 50ft trailers, etc. And, it's unfortunate that Lance
keys so heavily on the Tour and barely races much else
during the season, It would be nice to add him to the list
of cycling greats. Not to take anything from what he is
accomplishing, but he comes to the Tour with fresher legs
than many of the other competetiors.

"Chris" <chrismcreynolds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40ec158b$0$62165$812600b3@news.nntpaccess.com...
> I heard a promo for the Roll\Trautwik coverage and Bob
> Roll stated "...if Lance wins a 6th Tour, it will put him
> on the same level as PEle, Tiger Woods and Michael
> Jordan".
>
> Well, I assume that Lance is a bettter cyclist than those
> others but I
think
> he meant that Lance would be to cycling what these others
> mean to their respective sports. Hmm, a bit of hyperbole
> perhaps? Maybe Roll has speant too much time with Al (I
> don't need to know how to spell his last name)...
>
> Does anyone think that Lance will be "the best ever"? If
> so (ok, by one measure I will give you that) but can
> anyone make the argument that even begins to support
> Roll's statement?
>
> I don't think so and I am throwing down the gauntlet.
> Let's assume Lance wins this year and I will give you 4
> stage wins (as an assumption for your argument). How can
> anyone support this stagement about Armstrong? There is
> only one Pele in cycling and that is Eddy Merckx. Lance is
> the only 5 time winner to have failed to win any other
> GT!!! Put that in your pipe and
smoke
> it because what that means that Lance MUST win this Tour
> to even be considered in the same class as the rest of the
> 5 time winners and that is the truth. Every other winner
> won at least *2* other GTs so I guess we can (in a
> generous mood) allow that oine Tour can equal to other GT
> wins from eras past (although Indurain won to modern
> Giros, no small feat).
>
> What say you blind American Lance worshippers?

Doug Taylor

"Chris" <chrismcreynolds@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Does anyone think that Lance will be "the best ever"? If so
>(ok, by one measure I will give you that) but can anyone
>make the argument that even begins to support Roll's
>statement?
>
>I don't think so and I am throwing down the gauntlet. Let's
>assume Lance wins this year and I will give you 4 stage
>wins (as an assumption for your argument). How can anyone
>support this stagement about Armstrong? There is only one
>Pele in cycling and that is Eddy Merckx. Lance is the only
>5 time winner to have failed to win any other GT!!! Put
>that in your pipe and smoke it because what that means that
>Lance MUST win this Tour to even be considered in the same
>class as the rest of the 5 time winners and that is the
>truth. Every other winner won at least *2* other GTs so I
>guess we can (in a generous mood) allow that oine Tour can
>equal to other GT wins from eras past (although Indurain
>won to modern Giros, no small feat).
>
>What say you blind American Lance worshippers?

To continue the (inane?) sports analogies, if Lance wins 6
TdF, then he will be Hank Aaron or Barry Bonds to Merckx's
Babe Ruth. --dt

Super Fred

> Does anyone think that Lance will be "the best ever"? If
> so (ok, by one measure I will give you that) but can
> anyone make the argument that even begins to support
> Roll's statement?

> I don't think so and I am throwing down the gauntlet.
> Let's assume Lance wins this year and I will give you 4
> stage wins (as an assumption for your argument). How can
> anyone support this stagement about Armstrong?

> What say you blind American Lance worshippers?

I think the comparison of Merckx and Lance is like the 'ol
apples and oranges cliche. It's a new era of cycling with a
superset of dynamics. Also, because of things like more
scientific training and such there are many more contenders
- that is the difference between say the top 10 riders is
much narrower than in Merckx's day.

In terms of Roll's statement, I think it will put him in the
same category as those other athletes in terms of how he is
viewed / known by the majority of the world. One doesn't
have to know a lot about golf to know who Tiger is, the same
for basketball and Jordan, and soccer and Pele. Clearly the
same is / will be true of Lance.

PS - I'm American and I don't worship Lance. Sure I admire
some of his attributes as well as lot of other riders -
American and European.

Super Fred

> Does anyone think that Lance will be "the best ever"? If
> so (ok, by one measure I will give you that) but can
> anyone make the argument that even begins to support
> Roll's statement?

> I don't think so and I am throwing down the gauntlet.
> Let's assume Lance wins this year and I will give you 4
> stage wins (as an assumption for your argument). How can
> anyone support this stagement about Armstrong?

> What say you blind American Lance worshippers?

I think the comparison of Merckx and Lance is like the 'ol
apples and oranges cliche. It's a new era of cycling with a
superset of dynamics. Also, because of things like more
scientific training and such there are many more contenders
- that is the difference between say the top 10 riders is
much narrower than in Merckx's day.

In terms of Roll's statement, I think it will put him in the
same category as those other athletes in terms of how he is
viewed / known by the majority of the world. One doesn't
have to know a lot about golf to know who Tiger is, the same
for basketball and Jordan, and soccer and Pele. Clearly the
same is / will be true of Lance.

PS - I'm American and I don't worship Lance. Sure I admire
some of his attributes as well as lot of other riders -
American and European.

Tom Schulenburg

"vernon" <vern18544@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mqVGc.8108$oD3.5525@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> Not to take anything from what he is accomplishing, but
> he comes to the Tour with fresher legs than many of the
> other competetiors.

What races did Ullrich, Mayo, Hamilton, Heras, etc do before
the tour? They all raced about the same number of days -
Ullrich maybe less.

-T

Brian P

I say that from a popularity standpoint he is almost
already there.

However, I believe that Merckx is still the best.

I am a big LA fan, but even Lance says Merckx is the king.

"Chris" <chrismcreynolds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40ec158b$0$62165$812600b3@news.nntpaccess.com...
> I heard a promo for the Roll\Trautwik coverage and Bob
> Roll stated "...if Lance wins a 6th Tour, it will put him
> on the same level as PEle, Tiger Woods and Michael
> Jordan".
>
> Well, I assume that Lance is a bettter cyclist than those
> others but I
think
> he meant that Lance would be to cycling what these others
> mean to their respective sports. Hmm, a bit of hyperbole
> perhaps? Maybe Roll has speant too much time with Al (I
> don't need to know how to spell his last name)...
>
> Does anyone think that Lance will be "the best ever"? If
> so (ok, by one measure I will give you that) but can
> anyone make the argument that even begins to support
> Roll's statement?
>
> I don't think so and I am throwing down the gauntlet.
> Let's assume Lance wins this year and I will give you 4
> stage wins (as an assumption for your argument). How can
> anyone support this stagement about Armstrong? There is
> only one Pele in cycling and that is Eddy Merckx. Lance is
> the only 5 time winner to have failed to win any other
> GT!!! Put that in your pipe and
smoke
> it because what that means that Lance MUST win this Tour
> to even be considered in the same class as the rest of the
> 5 time winners and that is the truth. Every other winner
> won at least *2* other GTs so I guess we can (in a
> generous mood) allow that oine Tour can equal to other GT
> wins from eras past (although Indurain won to modern
> Giros, no small feat).
>
> What say you blind American Lance worshippers?

Davide Tosi

"vernon" <vern18544@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>Tour, Giro, and World in the SAME YEAR 1974 (only one
>ever do it)

Nope Roche 1987

Davide Tosi

"Super Fred" <timlambert @ mindspring . com> wrote:

>In terms of Roll's statement, I think it will put him in
>the same category as those other athletes in terms of how
>he is viewed / known by the majority of the world. One
>doesn't have to know a lot about golf to know who Tiger is,
>the same for basketball and Jordan, and soccer and Pele.
>Clearly the same is / will be true of Lance.

Maybe in the US. In Europe Eddy is still much more known
than Lance. You stop an old lady on the road and there are
many chances that she knows who EM is. No chance she would
know about Lance.

News

"vernon" <vern18544@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mqVGc.8108$oD3.5525@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Tour, Giro, and World in the SAME YEAR 1974 (only one
> ever do it)

Didn't Steven Roche do this?

dave

Super Fred

> >In terms of Roll's statement, I think it will put him in
> >the same
category
> >as those other athletes in terms of how he is viewed /
> >known by the
majority
> >of the world. One doesn't have to know a lot about golf
> >to know who
Tiger
> >is, the same for basketball and Jordan, and soccer and
> >Pele. Clearly the same is / will be true of Lance.
>
> Maybe in the US. In Europe Eddy is still much more known
> than Lance. You stop an old lady on the road and there are
> many chances that she knows who EM is. No chance she would
> know about Lance.

Would the old lady also know who Jordan and Woods are? Doubt
it. Perhaps she might know Pele - given she's old and Europe
is keen on soccer/football.

\"El Paisano\

"Chris" <chrismcreynolds@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40ec158b$0$62165$812600b3@news.nntpaccess.com...
> I heard a promo for the Roll\Trautwik coverage and Bob
> Roll stated "...if Lance wins a 6th Tour, it will put him
> on the same level as PEle, Tiger Woods and Michael
> Jordan".
>
> Well, I assume that Lance is a bettter cyclist than those
> others but I
think
> he meant that Lance would be to cycling what these others
> mean to their respective sports. Hmm, a bit of hyperbole
> perhaps? Maybe Roll has speant too much time with Al (I
> don't need to know how to spell his last name)...
>
Lance is similar in popularity to those in the other sports
in that even those who do not follow the sport have heard of
them. I would argue Pele is not the greatest footballer ever
and Lance is not the greatest cyclist ever, but in the US at
least they are the ones everyone knows. And like Pele, Lance
performs well in the sport's greatest spectacle.

I imagine in a few years there will be little doubt as to
who the greatest golfer is, just as there is no doubt in
cycling today.

Vernon

You're right.. I stand corrected... I didn't know, thanks.

"Davide Tosi" <davide.tosi@comune.re.it> wrote in message
news:411b3a1f.603384692@news.individual.de...
> "vernon" <vern18544@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Tour, Giro, and World in the SAME YEAR 1974 (only one
> >ever do it)
>
> Nope Roche 1987