methoxy isoflavone

lyot

Does anyone have any experience with this supplement ? It says it's good to enhance muslce build up..

greetings

Ted B

If there is any merit to it, you won't get it by eating it. This compound is thoroughly destroyed in the stomach.

lyot

so i'd better start sniffing it, is that what you suggest.. ..Why is it destroyed in the stomach ?

Ted B

Some compounds can be destroyed by stomach acid, while others may get past the stomach but are destroyed in the first pass through the liver. This is why many substances are effective as injectables only, and therefore oral preparations of andro, HGH, etc, are useless.

There are definitely cases whereby a supplement maker will make a reference to a study to 'prove' that his product is of merit. What they may not tell you is the study in question involved an injectable or a dose of many times that present in the product being sold. Be advised of this.

Oral ingestion is an ineffective means of delivery for certain compounds. In some cases, a compound can be made to where it can be absorbed sublingually or nasally (e.g. sniffing), but not always. And of course, injection is the most efficient means of delivery, but you won't exactly find injectable supplements!

In the case of M.I., some claim it can be absorbed sublingually, but I haven't researched this to see if any studies exist that actually prove that it can, or if it is even effective when taken by this route.

__________________
Originally Posted by Flyer:
It is a matter of reading comprehension that you challenged by.

lyot

hey Ted,

thanks a lot for taking some time to reply . ..I've been taking these pills for over a week, but it's worrying that it would all be useless ..

now, forgive my ignorance, but what is sublingual , exactly ? I'm not a native English speaker, and all these online English-Dutch dictionaries don't seem to have a translation for this word.. Could you describe? And do you think it would be better if I started to take this pills sublingually ?

Could you give some references of studies that give a confirmation of the problems the body has to absorb these supplements ?

Thanks again for replying .. !

have a nice day

bart

lyot

hey Ted,

thanks a lot for taking some time to reply . ..I've been taking these pills for over a week, but it's worrying that it would all be useless ..

now, forgive my ignorance, but what is sublingual , exactly ? I'm not a native English speaker, and all these online English-Dutch dictionaries don't seem to have a translation for this word.. Could you describe? And do you think it would be better if I started to take this pills sublingually ?

Could you give some references of studies that give a confirmation of the problems the body has to absorb these supplements ?

Thanks again for replying .. !

have a nice day

bart

Ted B

Ok, I have done a bit of further research into this. Here are some notes that you may find interesting:

(1) Sublingual = absorbed under your tongue.

(2) I may have been in error in saying this compound is destroyed in the stomach. I am now reading that one product manufacturer spread this rumor to improve the sales of his sublingual product. This is a fine example of why one should be very cautious when reading information provided by a supplement manufacturer.

(3) It seems that the studies made with this compound that confirm an anabolic effect were conducted in the 1970s through industrial research, were conducted with animals only, and were never published (industrial secrets). No studies were conducted with humans.

(4) In the animal studies, the animals were usually given 2g / 100kg of bodyweight per day. The compound was given to them in feed, so if this compound is effective at all in humans, it seems that it may be effective when ingested orally in that dosage.

Ted B

More info for you:

The patent applications for ipriflavone and 5-methyl-7-methoxyisoflavone make them look like promising compounds for increasing muscle mass. The ipriflavone patent describes a number of tests. It indicates that ipriflavone at 30 mg/kg was anabolic to muscle tissue without androgenic effects using the rat levator ani assay, although the degree of the anabolic effect was not given. It also indicates a significant reduction in nitrogen excretion, increased methionine incorporation into muscle tissue, increased swim time in the forced swim test, resistance to the catabolic effect of cortisol (with a greater effect than anabolic steroids), and increased weight gain in animals after ipriflavone administration. Ipriflavone caused weight gain in calves, cattle, hogs, poultry, rabbits, and guinea pigs, all without increased food intake. Finally, it describes a study using 10 treated and 10 control patients where ipriflavone caused 2-3 kilograms of weight gain in "thinned (asthenic), reconvalescent, dystrophic patients suffering from pathological thinness" [10].

The patent for 5-methyl-7-methoxyisoflavone examines its effects and the effects of some other derivatives of ipriflavone and compares them to those of ipriflavone. Of these compounds, methoxy was the most potent. All of the compounds increased the retention of calcium, phosophorus, potassium, and nitrogen. They also report that these compounds lacked androgenic, estrogenic, CNS, and hepatotoxic effects, increased resistance to hypoxia, and reduced cholesterol. Finally, when given to chickens, these substances caused significant weight gain over control and ipriflavone [3].

There are a number of reasons to treat this information with caution. First, the information provided in patent applications is often unreliable and bias. Second, a mechanism of action for how these anabolic effects are achieved is not described. Third, although it would seem that an anabolic effect on muscle tissue is demonstrated, the degree of this effect is not given. It could be that there is only a small effect, and the majority of the weight gain caused by these isoflavones is from bone or another tissue. Also, ipriflavone and its metabolites appear to accumulate primarily in the gastrointestinal tract, liver, kidneys, bones, and adrenal glands [6], although this does not rule out the possibility of an indirect effect.

There are few reports in the scientific literature on ipriflavone that are not primarily concerned with its potential use in the treatment of osteoporosis. However, one study found that ipriflavone administration to rabbits, dogs, and rats had an anti-hypoxic effect, decreased lactic acid concentrations in myocardial tissue, and improved mitochondrial energetics, especially under stressful conditions [6, 11]. This provides further support for the possibility that these compounds could increase athletic performance. At this point, there is not enough evidence to draw conclusions either way.

3. United States Patent 4,163,746. 1979 Aug 7. Metabolic 5-methyl-isoflavone-derivatives, process for the preparation thereof and compositions containing the same. Feuer L, Harkas L, Nogradi M, Vermes B, Gottsegen A, Wolfner A.

6. Altern Med Rev. 1999 Feb;4(1):10-22. Ipriflavone: an important bone-building isoflavone. Head KA.

10. United States Patent 3,949,085. 1976 Apr 6. Anabolic-weight-gain promoting compositions containing isoflavone derivatives and method using same. Feuer L, Nogradi M, Gottsegen A, Vermes B, Streliszky J, Wolfner A, Farkas L, Antus S, Kovaks M.

10. Arzneimittelforschung. 1981;31(6):953-8. Experimental studies on the cardiological effects of ipriflavone on the isolated rabbit heart and in rat and dog. Feuer L, Barath P, Strauss I, Kekes E.


All taken from: http://www.1fast400.com/?ingredients_id=67

lyot

ted,

again, i'm gratefull for all the information you provide.. I had been googling a bit on methoxy-isoflavone, but I'd only come up with product information provided by suppliers.. Of course, they are quite positive about this product, yet like you write, this should all be regarded with caution..In fact, the main reason I bought these pills is because another cyclist I know from a belgian cycling forum was really positive about it.. He told me he'd first lost two kilo's in weight (fat actually, he's also taking Whey CFM) and then, over the course of 4 weeks gained 3 kilo's.. (replacing fat into muscles, he alledged)..

I find it odd too that there aren't any decent studies related to the effects on human beings..One would expect that this has been studied thorougly by the medical world, since the lyrical tone of some of the suppliers publicity about this.. Anyway, i'm taking this since one week, and I'll post the results of this treatment in this topic in the upcoming weeks.. Any further input is of course really appreciated..

greetings