Atkins Part 2: The merits of the Atkins diet

2LAP

This is interesting, I think that most people who want to lose weight don't understand this equation or are even given it as advice. Rather they are told to do slimfast, weight watchers, atkins, etc. I also think that people need help or to be told how to 'eat less' and 'exercise more'.

The 'eat less, exercise more' recommendation works well, however I think its failure is due to inability to do this and people who don't want to do this (i.e. the same people that want a magic pill).

Why, we all have the same bodies to work with. There is no 'helpful' suggestion for a couch potato; other than exercise more and eat sensibly. There is no excuse for being a couch potato!!!!

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patch70

And there's some (sure, just "some") evidence that a higher protein, moderate fat and moderate carb diet works and does not necessarily lead to a more atherogenic lipid profile (if adhered to properly).

Again the simple physics argument does not hold water. Eg., three people take in 2000 kcal/day & expend 1500 kcal. One each takes in 100% of those kcal solely as carbs, protein or fat. None would be healthy but they would all end up with different results and these would not equate to a weight gain equivalent to 500 kcal per day of excessive intake.

If it is just "simple physics", how do you explain somebody losing large amounts of weight when on a high protein, very low carb diet even when their caloric intake is much higher than their total expenditure?

What I am saying is the types and timings of food macronutrients has an effect on weight gain/loss over and above kcal in minus kcal out. I am not a proponent of the Atkins and have never done it myself but I have seen too many people get nowhere from being told "eat less, exercise more". Why? Because it is an oversimplification.

patch70

Well, it is lower than is recommended in higher protein diets but good luck with the marketing. I hope you make as much money as the Atkins group!

davidbod

You seem to have done your research on the Atkin's diet. So why then can't we agree it's not a radical high fat low carb only diet. What I have found in practice is it has weaned me off of the junk carbs and consumed all of my excess fat in about 4 months time. I am now in the much more relaxed phase of the diet which you seem to agree is in line with nutritional guidelines. This diet has done in 4 months what years of trying the oversimplified burn more eat less principle could never do.

David

2LAP

Yes, they were the WHO and UK guidlines I was refering to; people with particular disease states may have different advice to follow.

I was reading last night that the average UK diet contained just over 40% of kcals from fat. This would make this diet moderately high in fat and low in carbohydrate; yet most British people are overweight.

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2LAP

A good point, but I *dislike* Atkins for a number of reasons...
1. I don't think the early stages are very healthy.
2. There are healthier ways of weight loss.
3. People seem to become scared of carbohydrates (to the point where whole restaurants are Carbohydrate Free).
4. Encorages high fat diets (or promotes that fat is good for you) when high fat diets have their own risks.
5. Due to 3. and 4. it doesn't educate people about balance and healthy diet.
6. Contradiction between the final stage of the diet and 3. - Why so high in carbs if carbs are bad for you.
7. Unfair/bias reporting of research.
8. Money/marketing orientated and therefore how can it be unbias. (People in the UK will always be concerned about these 'American' selling tactics... they give products very little value).
9. People have experianced health problems on the diet.
10. Even the end stage might not contain enough carbs to support heavy training. Goes against what us coaches are trying to acheive.
11. I have acheived success through watching what I eat and through exercise (although I have never been over weight or had too lose weight).

Another inetersting point. I have seen many people lose weight by counting calories and exercising more. This is the principle behind things like weight watchers, etc. which are also very effective for some people.

If you were eating a healthy and blanced diet before then counting calories to lose weight; why were you eating junk carbs (e.g. sweets, refined sugars, etc.)? Surely you couldn't have been eating correctly in the first place?

Many diets have different levels of success; one flaw with the eat less and exercise more diet is that people don't understand it, don't have practical advice (which the Atkins book provides) and many people don't want the 'bother' of doing it (other diets like Atkins seem easier).

I'm sure that no one would disagree with me that by making healthy food choices and reducing calorie intake is the healthiest way of losing weight. I would argue that it is the most effective too depending upon how it is approached.

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Beastt

A very, very good friend did some research for me concerning Dr. Atkins and his weight at the time of his death. According to what they found, the "official" explanation as to why he was so heavy was that he'd been in a coma with near complete systemic shut-down for 8-days and the weight was the result of fluid retention from all of the IVs.

Certainly, I'm no doctor but this smacks of intention to misrepresent the situation. Perhaps others have found other "official" explanations. They're talking about almost 60-pounds in just 8-days! I would think if a patient were retaining that amount of fluid, he'd also be retaining huge quantities of toxins normally disposed of through the kidneys and the bowels. It would seem to the non-professional that dialysis and a different concentration of IV fluids would be in order. If this explanation has a basis in truth, I would hate to think what would have happened should the coma have lasted for a month or more.

If Atkins allows people to lose weight then that, in itself, is a good thing. His diet recommendations should vastly increase the toxins obtained through the dieter's food. I guess it just seems odd to me that so many people are so willing to disregard human physiology. When compared to animal physiology -- indeed even animal eating habits, the answers, to my satisfaction, become very clear.

Chemicalanarchy

That's pretty impressive considering it takes 3500cals to make a pound of fat. Then if you burned an extra 1000cal EVERYday for a week you might lose 2lbs.

That's 8lbs a month or 32lbs in 4 months and somebody did it with only a change in diet'; Ok. It ain't happening.

'You seem to have done your research on the Atkin's diet. So why then can't we agree it's not a radical high fat low carb only diet. What I have found in practice is it has weaned me off of the junk carbs and consumed all of my excess fat in about 4 months time. I am now in the much more relaxed phase of the diet which you seem to agree is in line with nutritional guidelines. This diet has done in 4 months what years of trying the oversimplified burn more eat less principle could never do./

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davidbod

There's a lot of water that goes in the first 2 weeks so don't count that as part of calories burned. I do spin classes 2-3 times a week and then usualy at least 40-60 miles on the weekend. There is also mounting evidence that burning fat takes more energy than burning carbs. That should come as no surprise and it means that both at rest and at high energy output during riding I'm burning more calories than someone on a high carb diet.

davidbod

The group that illegaly leaked the data on his weight at death are called 'The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine'. They are basically vegetarian animal rights activists. Only about 5% of them are licensed medical practitioners. They leaked data from his autopsy report, but his weight upon admission to the hospital was 195 pounds.

Dr Richard Fleming who originaly recieved the data and passed it to this group had just previously published a book on his own diet which is critical of low carb diets. He and the 'physicians committee' have been publicly critical of Atkin's diet for some time.

I think it's easy to see who is misrepresenting the facts here, particularly when you consider the lengths they have gone to. Regardless of what the actual facts are surrounding Dr. Atkin's death, for a group that calls themselves 'The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine' to leak someones confidential medical records is reprehensible.


Of coarse there's no way they would want to misrepresented the situation. So

Beastt

Points well taken, however; if his weight was 195 when admitted, does that mean that the figure of 258 pounds at the time of his death was inaccurate? If not, then how does one account for the apparent 63-pounds gained over a mere 8-days while in a coma? Unless the information regarding his death weight is simply inaccurate, something still doesn't add up. An additional and interesting point, if true, was the medical history of Dr. Atkins regarding heart disease. The diet he recommended for weight loss would seem likely to lend itself to the development and rapid progression of heart disease.

As I understand it, his medical history regarding heart disease was leaked at the same time as the information regarding his weight. (I haven't double-checked that.) Is it possible that the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine felt that many people may well be drawn into a similar fate and weighed the value of leaking the information about Dr. Atkins, his weight and his medical history against the potential number of people who may come to harm if not properly informed? It's only a guess but assuming a reasonable degree of accuracy, perhaps it would make the ethical breach of leaking the information somewhat more forgiveable.

davidbod

I could only consider it more ethical if the entire record was leaked rather than bits of information designed to paint a particular picture. To think that these people do not have an agenda is naive.

Atkins followed his diet from the 60s onwards. That's 40+ years of his life following his diet and then dieing at age 72 from a blow to the head. To have had heart problems in the later years of his life, which may or may not be viral related, and then make the leap that is was from a diet he followed for 40+ years is not good science, and that is what make this whole thing stink so bad.

Do you remeber a guy named Jim Fixx who died of a heart attack at 52 while running. People are still using his story to make the claim that running will kill you.

If you follow the facts they show that his family, close friends and attending doctor attest to the fact that he swelled to the point of his hands being balloon like as his organs shut down in the last moments of his life. I'm sure they could have stopped pumping in fluids and just let him die a bit more gracefully, but to then use this data in the way it has been used is just plain reprehensible.

Beastt

"Reprehensible" might well describe selling a diet that has been suspect for years as lending greatly to a great number of health problems, which often lead to a premature death, only to cash in on people's desire to eat what they like while being assured that it will be healthy for them.

http://www.pritikin.com/eperspectiv...pritikinatkins/

Much is not known about the physical condition of Dr. Atkins at the time of his death because family members, (heirs), ordered that he not receive a thorough autopsy. It's likely we, (the public), will never know all of the details on both sides of the issue but it seems to me that the pot doth protest too much in calling the kettle black.

stevek

Get off the fat kick only in the US do we have this fear of fat.
Fat is not evil and it does not kill. Eating too much and not exercising does.
The whole fat fear has been a marketing hype joke.
We see reducing fat helps but so does reducing eating processed carbs and sugar. I bet in the long run we find reducing those will do more then reducing fat.
Humans have consumed fat since we could stuff it in our faces. But now all of a sudden fat is horrible stuff and is killing us left and right.
It’s just easier to blame fat for our problems. Other coulters eat fat and do fine. But here in America it is killing us?
All our research was dedicated to finding out that fat is bad. But only now are we starting to look into carbs as bad.
If you search hard enough you usually find what your after even if it is not really real.
Most of the carbs Americans consume are garbage.
Americans ate fat 50 years ago. But they did not eat the processed garbage we call food now. The walked more.