2004 TdF Route Discussion

Shnerpals

I love the TTT a and it is definately needed! the TdF is very much a team sport and the only reason why Lance or anybody succeeds as an individual is because of the team...If Ullrich had a bad team that didnt ride specifically for him he would be lost and never be able to get 2nd or 1st...sure the team isnt the one who wins the event but thats why they have individual TTs...i also think the new rules could make a huge difference! if any of the top contenders have a team that isnt as skilled as the others they could lose significant time to them! or say Ullrich crashes and slows his team down so that they lose 3-4 minutes to lance...laance wont gain anything from that even though he should...thats the one thing about the tour that is unlike any other sport is that illness and injury do not change time...you dont get cut any slack when anything could happen and i think that the new TTT will make that day and maybe the race less exciting than usual...

__________________
-Jill
"I'll be back next year, and I'm not coming back to be second, but hopefully to come back to the level I was in the first four Tours." -Lance Armstrong 6/26/03

hemplands

[If Ullrich had a bad team that didnt ride specifically for him he would be lost and never be able to get 2nd or 1st

In 1997 when Ullrich won the tour there wasn't a team time trial. Neither was there one in 95, 96, 98, 99, and who won those years, Indurain, Riis, Pantani & Armstrong.

Shnerpals

I didnt mean that w/o a TTT Ullrich wouldnt get 1st or 2nd i meant that if he did not have a strong team that supported him he wouldnt...I think the TTT is important because it shows just how strong those teams are and gives them a time to shine and show the real reason why these people are winning...and that with the new rule restricting the amount of time a competitor can gain it will change the overall strategy of the team and make the whole idea of a TTT less exciting than when competitors could gain major time.

__________________
-Jill
"I'll be back next year, and I'm not coming back to be second, but hopefully to come back to the level I was in the first four Tours." -Lance Armstrong 6/26/03

davek

Consider cycling as a team sport in the same way that cricket or baseball are team sports. In each you have whole team units but within that unit you have individuals who specialise in the different disciplines of the sport - bowlers/pitchers, batsmen, fielders, and so on. Likewise, you have different roles within a cycling team - leader, sprinter, domestique, etc. You don't pick a cycling team based on how good they all are at time trialling. Getting the whole team to perform a time trial together is like asking every member of a baseball team to have a go at pitching and then base the overall score on the performance of the worst pitcher.

Where I'm sure we'll agree is that the new rules are an ugly fudge. The Tour organisers need to get off the fence - either they think the TTT is a good thing, in which case there should be no time restrictions, or they think it's a bad thing, in which case they should drop it from the race.

Everyone knows that the strength of his team is part of the reason why Lance has been able to win the last five TdFs and you don't need a team time trial to prove it. On the other hand, I believe that without the team time trial last year then Ullrich might very well have won - so maybe last year's win really should be given to the team?

Shnerpals

It would be different if the TTT was all uphill or all sprinting but it isnt...the course is designed so anyone could ride it. So it is testing how well the team works together to ride faster than the other teams...you pick a cycling team based on the ability of the riders...if a rider is good at climbing but horrible at riding flats why would they pick that person to be on their team...you pick a rider based on their ability to be all around good as well as having a particular strength...I do agree with you that if there was not a TTT last year Ullrich may have won the race depending on if Lance changed his strategy because of it...

__________________
-Jill
"I'll be back next year, and I'm not coming back to be second, but hopefully to come back to the level I was in the first four Tours." -Lance Armstrong 6/26/03

davek

This is patently untrue or the likes of Petacchi and Cippolini would never get a ride on a TdF team.