2004 TdF Route Discussion

Kathrin

Let's discuss the route of next year's Tour de France (or is that going on somewhere already? I'm pretty new to the forums). What do you think of the route? What do you like least / best about it? Which stages will be the decisive ones? Will the route favor any riders?

HyperPhreak

i think the TT up Alpe'd huez is gonna be good to watch.

hemplands

The last week in this years TdF is going to be great, its really been set up for a showdown between the strong men. I'm not sure that 2 time trials in 4 days is a good thing but an uphill time trial on Alpe d'Huez is going to be fantastic. I can't remember when they had tt's so close together, if ever.

It is going to take a rider of courage to win this year's tour and I'm not sure Lance is up to it.

mjolnir2k

Well we are sure to see a very exciting Tour. The layout guarantees that there will be no clear cut winner until the last few days (if then). I love the Alpe d'huez TT stage. Can you imagine the excitement for the fans and the suffering for the riders. Phew!

One thing I don't care for is the time cut off on the Team TT that limits everyones losses to 2:30 to the winning team. That seems to be blatantly unfair and definitely poses the biggest threat to US Postal as they will not be able to put serious time into rivals and REALLY benefits the teams that have great climbers but poor time trialists. Now these teams can basically take a "rest" day on the TTT and just make sure they come in within the time cut. I think that takes a lot of pressure off of these other teams and gives them a significant advantage. Boo

Other than that, I think we are looking at one heck of a Tour!

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hemplands

In my opinion Team Time Trials are the pits they just don't have a place within the race. It makes a mockery of general Classifications. Run them by all means but as a separate competition within the Tours and don't add the time to the individuals, then you won't get a team blanket on the classification board.

I think I'm going to do a little maths this evening and take the TTT out of the last few tuors and see how it pans out and whether there are many surprises.

mjolnir2k

Interesting, but I have always understood the Tour to be a TEAM event, so it makes sense to have a day where the teams ride as one unit against the clock.

It will do no good to remove the TTT stage and see who would have won because the teams plan their strategy for the rest of the race depending on the outcome of the TTT. That means that you would have to factor in what change in strategy each team would have made to compensate for no TTT (and you would have to be a mind reader/ psychic to do that).

My point is that if the Tour wants to continue to have a TTT then don't criple it's impact by limiting time lost. What's the use in that, as it proves nothing and gives a HUGE edge to bad teams. Better to do away with it entirely which would level the playing field.

Would you say the same if they made a rule that no rider could suffer more than a 2:30 loss on any mountain stage? or no rider could suffer more than a 2:30 loss on an individual TT? both are just as inane.

Better yet, why not make Lance ride a unicycle as that would be a more honest way to try and get a different winner next year than this veiled rule change.

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limerickman

I've got to agree with Hemplands - the TTT simply distorts the overall results.
Take 2003 : and not that I begrudge him one bit but Victor Hugo Pena got to wear the Maillot Jeune for 4 days simply because the USPS team had a good time trial.
(Ullrich, Tyler or Vino never got to wear the Maillot Jeune in the 2003 TDF !).
I have always throught that it was a distortion - I remember the Panasonic and Renault teams in the 1980's virtually holding the jersey for days on end because of the TTT.

As regards the route of the TDF for 2004, it's all down to the last week barring accidents and loss of form.
The route in week 3 is tough - after all they'd have crossed the
Pyrennes and they then face in to 2 TT in 4 days.
Not easy.
But it's guaranteed to be rivetting.

hemplands

I have been doing the beancounting for 2003

Lance would have only won by 18 seconds from JU
Vino would have been 2.44 down
Zubeldia 3.29
Mayo 4.44
Tyler 5.32

I'm going to sit and do the Vuelta ones because they are only won by seconds. It might make very interesting reading.

hemplands

I had to do some thinking but there was a gap in the 90's when there wasn't Team Time Trials.

Read On

Tour de France 2000 Looks to Past Glories

Team Time Trial Reappears After 6-Year Gap


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By Samuel Abt - International Herald Tribune

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PARIS - The organizers of the Tour de France confirmed the rumors Thursday: It's back to the future and back to the Futuroscope, too, in 2000.
Unveiling the official route for the 87th edition of the world's greatest bicycle race, scheduled July 1 to July 23, the organizers announced that the team time trial, which was last held in 1994, would be reinstituted, as expected. That race has sometimes resulted in significant losses of time for leading riders who were slowed by teammates.


It definitely didn't cause any problems to the winners during those years

1995 Indurain
1996 Riis
1997 Ullrich
1998 Pantani
1999 Armstrong

So what's the point of including it, its as the Herald Tribune says it resulted in significant losses for leading riders.

Use it as a showpiece event and not include it in the overall times rather than giving everybody Mickey Mouse scores. This year its going to have as much relevance as flying to the moon.

Shnerpals

I cannot wait for the moutain stage time trial! it will be great to see who is really the best climber...i want to see if anyone will be able to actually pass the person in front of them, that would be incredible...I find the new TTT rule crazy and its definately going to change things in the future...I think the route is going to make for one of the most exciting tours especially with so many talented riders going for the yellow jersey! as a Lance Armstrong fan im going to be super nervous but very excited to see if anyone can step up and take the yellow away from him...im hoping not but i guess i wont know until the last day!

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-Jill
"I'll be back next year, and I'm not coming back to be second, but hopefully to come back to the level I was in the first four Tours." -Lance Armstrong 6/26/03

Allen H

It certainly seems like the 2:30 limit on the TTT is designed to help the GC contenders on less deep teams, and make sure a deeper team like US Postal or T-Mobile can't open a bigger "gap" on any of the others in the GC field.

Kathrin

I agree absolutely!

So I guess we all agree that the uphill TT will be a real highlight and that the new rule for the TTT pretty much sucks.

How do you like the new rule for the polka-dot jersey? I think it's great as it will prevent riders collecting all those points in an early breakaway.
How about the stages in the massif central? They will probably be very unpredictable, in my opinion. Do you think anyone will be able to take advantage of them with regards to the GC?

And what about the inclusion of the pavé sections early on? Flirting with disaster as there are many crashes in the first stages of the Tour anyway?

HyperPhreak

whats the new polka dot jersey rules??

Kathrin

The most points will be awarded for the last mountain climbs in a stage, so now the real climbers, who are still strong at the final ascents, will have a change again to win the polka-dot jersey.