Anyone use bike generator lights anymore?

Mark

Doug McLaren wrote:
> On 2008-06-27, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo> wrote:
>
> | I have to wonder if you've used such lights. Bicycle dynamos typically
> | deliver only 2 Watts to a front lamp and 1 W to a rear. This is insufficient
> | light to light your pathway. In Europe it is expected only to make you
> | visible to traffic.
>
> When people say 2 watts (I realize it's more like 2.4 watts) isn't
> enough, is that for halogen lights or LED lights?
>
> How much more efficient is a LED light than a halogen light?

I've seen credible claims of 30 lumens/watt for halogen (Light & Motion,
I believe) and around 100 lumens/watt and rising for the latest
high-power LED's. HID's are allegedly 50 lumens/watt. Note that the
LEDs and HIDs are whiter than halogen (yellow by comparison). Whiter
light helps in seeing stuff.

I built a two-LED home-brew with Seoul Semiconductor LEDs. I've always
been a "there's never enough light" type of guy, but I gotta tell you
that the estimated 250 (well-aimed) lumens it puts out is a /lot/ of
light.

That's on "medium" setting, about 3.6 watts (Efficiency goes down when
you crank up the power on LEDs, the opposite of halogens). On full
power, the light puts out ~430 lumens, which compared favorably with the
HIDs my friends had on a recent all-nighter.

Getting back to the original thread topic, I've seen a very nice web
page of a guy who hooked two similar LEDs to his dynamo hub for
Paris-Brest-Paris: http://img.stimpy.net/pics/bike/creeled/

The 500 mA the hub will output should be equivalent to the "medium"
setting on my light, i.e. "a /lot/ of light". I'll think about that SON
for any future PBP-like rides.

Mark J.

Tom Kunich

"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:timmcn-7032AA.18022727062008@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <WIadncKyZPqV1fjVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> The question is whether *you* have used these lights. Sheesh. For one
> thing, it/s 2.4W to the headlamp and 0.6W to the taillamp that is the
> standard for these designs. For another, it's pretty common to use a
> battery LED lamp on the rear and a 3W headlamp.
>
> The development of better LEDs looks to supplant the halogen bulb pretty
> soon, with better reliability, longer service life and potentially
> brighter light.

Yes I used them. But for off-road riding which is a great deal more
particular of vision than road.

Clive George

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:8fCdnRozsswJBvjVnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> "Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> news:timmcn-7032AA.18022727062008@news.iphouse.com...
>> In article <WIadncKyZPqV1fjVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>> The question is whether *you* have used these lights. Sheesh. For one
>> thing, it/s 2.4W to the headlamp and 0.6W to the taillamp that is the
>> standard for these designs. For another, it's pretty common to use a
>> battery LED lamp on the rear and a 3W headlamp.
>>
>> The development of better LEDs looks to supplant the halogen bulb pretty
>> soon, with better reliability, longer service life and potentially
>> brighter light.
>
> Yes I used them. But for off-road riding which is a great deal more
> particular of vision than road.

Hmm - even I probably wouldn't use a 'mo for off-road (*). Was that just one
ride, or did you use them regularly at night?

If you managed to use them for off-roading for a while, that sort of implies
they're probably good enough for road use.

(* and not only because a tyre-driven one won't be happy with knobblies, and
the mtb has a 24mm axle which means there's only two normal hubs available,
let alone dynohubs.)

A Muzi

Ablang wrote:
> No one seems to be talking about it, and I can't even find a good
> place online to order them from.
>
> Does anyone have a site for that stuff, or is it being phased out?

http://www.yellowjersey.org/dynamos.html
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Tom Kunich

"Clive George" <clive@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YZOdnVJ-WYGiPPjVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
> news:8fCdnRozsswJBvjVnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> "Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
>> news:timmcn-7032AA.18022727062008@news.iphouse.com...
>>> In article <WIadncKyZPqV1fjVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>>> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The question is whether *you* have used these lights. Sheesh. For one
>>> thing, it/s 2.4W to the headlamp and 0.6W to the taillamp that is the
>>> standard for these designs. For another, it's pretty common to use a
>>> battery LED lamp on the rear and a 3W headlamp.
>>>
>>> The development of better LEDs looks to supplant the halogen bulb pretty
>>> soon, with better reliability, longer service life and potentially
>>> brighter light.
>>
>> Yes I used them. But for off-road riding which is a great deal more
>> particular of vision than road.
>
> Hmm - even I probably wouldn't use a 'mo for off-road (*). Was that just
> one ride, or did you use them regularly at night?

I tried them and they were ineffective. However, on a full moon I could ride
without lights at all since I knew the trails pretty well. The lights simply
didn't work well. Battery lights could put out a half kilowatt without much
problem.

A Muzi

SMS wrote:
> Clive George wrote:
>> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%W99k.29084$ZE5.24118@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> Clive George wrote:
>>>> "Ablang" <ron916@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:d6459cbc-ebcd-48a0-82e8-86d9a6e58233@f1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> No one seems to be talking about it, and I can't even find a good
>>>>> place online to order them from.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have a site for that stuff, or is it being phased out?
>>>>
>>>> Has it really been that long since the last "dynamos are fine"/"no
>>>> they're not, you must have 3GW battery lights to be safe" thread?
>>>
>>> Hmm, I've been reading this group for years, and never saw anyone
>>> claim that 3GW worth of lights were necessary to be safe.
>>
>> No, but there is some numpty who always pops up saying dynamo lights
>> aren't safe for road use, and has written a web page which he claims
>> is unbiased but still pushes that claim.
>>
>>> The poster asked for a site for dynamo lighting equipment, and it was
>>> provided. Don't try to turn it into a thread on batteries versus
>>> generators. If he wants biased and potentially unhelpful information
>>> on the dynamo versus battery trade-offs it can be found by typing
>>> "bicycle dynamo expert" into the Google search bar, and then clicking
>>> on "I'm Feeling Lucky."
>>
>> I fixed your post for you.
>
> Cute, but maybe instead you could point out anything that isn't accurate
> on that page. No one has been able to do so in the years that it's been up.

Perhaps no one felt it was worth their effort.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

A Muzi

>>> "SMS" <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote
>>>> Cute, but maybe instead you could point out anything that isn't accurate
>>>> on that page. No one has been able to do so in the years that it's been
>>>> up.

>> "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote
>>> "I wish that it were possible for inexpensive, dynamo powered lights to
>>> provide adequate illumination for commuting, but it isn't"
>>> That's not accurate.
>>> There, that was easy, wasn't it.

> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> I have to wonder if you've used such lights. Bicycle dynamos typically
>> deliver only 2 Watts to a front lamp and 1 W to a rear. This is insufficient
>> light to light your pathway. In Europe it is expected only to make you
>> visible to traffic.

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> Well, IME, once you get up to 30mph or so, actually they start working
> pretty well.
> Great training, too. --D-y

OK, that was funny.
In reality, my doddering commuter speeds are plenty fast for a dynamo
lamp to give reasonably bright light. I want no more light and I never
ditz with my quite old systems which are 'always on'. They just plain
work, day and night. That alone is a feature.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

dustoyevsky@mac.com

A Muzi wrote:

(me first)
> dustoyev...@mac.com wrote:
> > Well, IME, once you get up to 30mph or so, actually they start working
> > pretty well.
> > Great training, too. *--D-y

(A M's response):
> OK, that was funny.

Thank you.

It's always better after you try to make a joke, when people laugh.

> In reality, my doddering commuter speeds are plenty fast for a dynamo
> lamp to give reasonably bright light. I want no more light and I never
> ditz with my quite old systems which are 'always on'. They just plain
> work, day and night. That alone is a feature.

Agreed. Why we've seen in previous discussions, that cops are known to
"insist" on some level of function for f/r bike lights, esp. in cities
and after dark.
=====
(ref. "30mph"):

I used to enjoy, when descending a couple of fairly steep, long hills
near the bottom of Independence Pass (Colo), when a) it got dark
enough that oncoming motor vehicles couldn't see me "behind my light"
and b) I got going up around that 30-35mph speed, when the old Union
or Soubitez buzz-bottle would start doing the sireen thing, the light
output would go up a good step or three and change from yellow to
white, and said MV's would move over and at least center in their
lanes to let the "motorcycle" (or whatever I was, maybe an intoxicated
padiddle hogging their lane!) go on by.

There were some mobile potholes on that road; when the light bulb blew
(back in 72, I hadn't gotten to "Zener" in the dict. yet) it was
exciting even for a Youth, Invincible. I learnt to go fast enough to
run bright, not quite fast enough to pop the bulb, which threshold
could be closely approximated by the pitch of the Screaming Soubitez
(Ululating Union?). Also, learned to a) carry spare bulbs, and b)
field-strip the headlamp ass. and install a new bulb by whatever light
was available.

Hope I didn't disappoint too many of those nice polite people. Just
tryin' to have some fun. --D-y

Doug McLaren

On 2008-06-27, Doug McLaren <dougmc+usenet@frenzied.us> wrote:

| For example, I've got a Cateye HL-EL 500 which they rate at 1000
| candlepower, they say it lasts 30 hours. It's quite bright. Assuming
| that the 4 AA batteries are 2500 mAh (good alkalines), that's an
| average of around 1/10th of a watt.

I screwed up the math -- forgot that there's four AA's, not one. So
it's about one half a watt, and probably goes down from there. I
guess I should just measure it. Either way, it's pretty bright,
though it certainly can't compare to the 15 watt halogen jobs I've
seen.

Good point that Mark made about the dynamo putting out AC -- but even
with a 20% loss from a bridge rectifier and voltage regulator (perhaps
one of the fairly efficient DC to DC converters?), it ought to be a
big win if your new LED light is 3x as efficient as your old halogen
light.

--
Doug McLaren, dougmc@frenzied.us

Zog The Undeniable

Ablang wrote:
> No one seems to be talking about it, and I can't even find a good
> place online to order them from.
>
> Does anyone have a site for that stuff, or is it being phased out?

Oh yes. They're the only thing that will definitely last on an
all-night audax (randonnee) and with the new LED lights (Supernova/B&M
IQ Fly) there is a *lot* of light available.

bob prohaska's usenet account

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> watt. The problem with dynamos is that they're ill-suited to powering
> LEDs. They put out AC power at widely varying voltage, and the
> electronics to rectify and regulate the output wastes at least 20% of
> the available power.

Ahh, but you're missing the point. Use the LEDs as their own rectifiers,
they're a perfect match for an inductance-limited AC generator.
http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/

bob prohaska

Tim McNamara

In article <jIednTnxlqUOE_jVnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@comcast.com>,
Mark <mandmljNOSPAM@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:

> Getting back to the original thread topic, I've seen a very nice web
> page of a guy who hooked two similar LEDs to his dynamo hub for
> Paris-Brest-Paris: http://img.stimpy.net/pics/bike/creeled/

Interesting. Thanks!

Andreas Oehler

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:38:32 -0700, SMS:


>There are only a couple of LED dynamo powered headlights greater than 1
>watt.

You seem not up-to-date. I know no dynamo-LED-headlamp which consumes only
1 Watt - besides the one made by Spaninga. All others B&M DLumotec, IQ
FLy, Basta Steady, Inoled 10+, 20+, Extreme, Schmidt Edelux, Supernova and
a lot of far eastern ones take from 2.4 to 4 Watt.

>The problem with dynamos is that they're ill-suited to powering
>LEDs. They put out AC power at widely varying voltage,

Voltage is of ne relevance here. All classic dynamos are *better* suited
to power LEDs than batteries, because they are by principle
current-limited. Just connect a bridge rectifier and one (or more in
series) LED and you are done.

> and the
>electronics to rectify and regulate the output wastes at least 20% of
>the available power.

You are talking of LED-battery-lights here? There you need some ways to
limit the current. A lot of battery lights (like Cateye EL300, EL500) use
just a resistor for this purpose. Very inefficient indeed.

>The best LED headlight for dynamos is the Solidlight 1203D/1203DR, see
>"http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php".

You are joking again. The 1203D uses oldfashioned inefficient LEDs and
inappropriate rotationaö-symmetric optics.

>It has two 3 watt
>LEDs, so when you're moving at higher speed you can have more light if
>the dynamo is putting out sufficient power. It costs £150.00, or just
>about $300.

An B&M IQ Fly is available for less than 60 Euro, consumes 3-4 Watt, is
brighter than the 1203D and gives an efficient beam to illuminate the road
ahead.

Andreas

Tim McNamara

In article <488a3897.922457043@n.nabendynamo.de>,
Andreas Oehler <andreas.oehler@gmx.de> wrote:

> Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:38:32 -0700, SMS:
>
>
> >There are only a couple of LED dynamo powered headlights greater
> >than 1 watt.
>
> You seem not up-to-date. I know no dynamo-LED-headlamp which consumes
> only 1 Watt - besides the one made by Spaninga. All others B&M
> DLumotec, IQ FLy, Basta Steady, Inoled 10+, 20+, Extreme, Schmidt
> Edelux, Supernova and a lot of far eastern ones take from 2.4 to 4
> Watt.
>
> >The problem with dynamos is that they're ill-suited to powering
> >LEDs. They put out AC power at widely varying voltage,
>
> Voltage is of ne relevance here. All classic dynamos are *better*
> suited to power LEDs than batteries, because they are by principle
> current-limited. Just connect a bridge rectifier and one (or more in
> series) LED and you are done.
>
> > and the
> >electronics to rectify and regulate the output wastes at least 20%
> >of the available power.
>
> You are talking of LED-battery-lights here? There you need some ways
> to limit the current. A lot of battery lights (like Cateye EL300,
> EL500) use just a resistor for this purpose. Very inefficient indeed.
>
> >The best LED headlight for dynamos is the Solidlight 1203D/1203DR,
> >see "http://www.solidlights.co.uk/products/1203d.php".
>
> You are joking again. The 1203D uses oldfashioned inefficient LEDs
> and inappropriate rotationaö-symmetric optics.
>
> >It has two 3 watt LEDs, so when you're moving at higher speed you
> >can have more light if the dynamo is putting out sufficient power.
> >It costs £150.00, or just about $300.
>
> An B&M IQ Fly is available for less than 60 Euro, consumes 3-4 Watt,
> is brighter than the 1203D and gives an efficient beam to illuminate
> the road ahead.

Thanks for the perspective, Andreas. You do, after all, know much more
about dynamo lighting than SMS does. It's too bad that he will not
accept your (or anyone else's) repeated corrections of his
misconceptions. In fact he even managed to claim in this thread that no
one has corrected the errors on his Web page! (Of course, since it's
*his* Web page he's the only one who can correct it, but he has at least
been given the information needed to correct the most egregious of his
errors about optics and dynamo lighting systems. Stubbornness prevents
him from owning up, unfortunately).

Perhaps SMS should Google you to verify your expertise.