Knee goes outward in the top pedal stroke

cornejo.apablaza@gmail.com

Hello dear fellow members of this list,

A couple of weeks ago my riding partner told me that me my right knee
goes outward in the top pedal stroke.
I ride a lot and I don't suffer any pain in the knees nor in any other
part of my body.
I've read (from Andy Pruitt) that if the knee goes inward use wedges
in the cleat, and if the knee goes outward fix the cleats in the
inside of the shoe, near the frame.
Does anyone of you knows any other tip for this symptom? Should it be
harmful?
At first I think don't because I've always ridden the same.
Regards from Chile,

Roberto

andresmuro@aol.com

On Jun 26, 10:53 am, cornejo.apabl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello dear fellow members of this list,
>
> A couple of weeks ago my riding partner told me that me my right knee
> goes outward in the top pedal stroke.
> I ride a lot and I don't suffer any pain in the knees nor in any other
> part of my body.
> I've read (from Andy Pruitt) that if the knee goes inward use wedges
> in the cleat, and if the knee goes outward fix the cleats in the
> inside of the shoe, near the frame.
> Does anyone of you knows any other tip for this symptom? Should it be
> harmful?
> At first I think don't because I've always ridden the same.
> Regards from Chile,
>
> Roberto

Roberto:

If you are not having any problems, don't do anything. We are all very
anatomically asymmetrically. We may pedal in, out, straight, crooked,
etc. If your pedaling asymmetry causes discomfort, by all means, check
it out. However, correcting a problem that does not lead to discomfort
may lead to it and injury.

Your Argentinian neighbor that lives in USA.

Andres

Woland99

On Jun 26, 11:53 am, cornejo.apabl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello dear fellow members of this list,
>
> A couple of weeks ago my riding partner told me that me my right knee
> goes outward in the top pedal stroke.
> I ride a lot and I don't suffer any pain in the knees nor in any other
> part of my body.
> I've read (from Andy Pruitt) that if the knee goes inward use wedges
> in the cleat, and if the knee goes outward fix the cleats in the
> inside of the shoe, near the frame.
> Does anyone of you knows any other tip for this symptom? Should it be
> harmful?
> At first I think don't because I've always ridden the same.
> Regards from Chile,
>
> Roberto

I was told the same thing when I went to get my bike fit at LBS.
Turned that one of my legs is slightly longer (1/8 in or so).
They sold me shoe inserts by Specialized (Body Geometry) with
shims that can correct knee position. Unfortunately I have very
wide feet and even with extra wide SIDI shoes I could not really
ride with inserts in. So I stopped using them - it did not seem
to affect the health of my knees either way. Learning how to pedal
fast in easier gear was much more of a factor in that respect.
Eventually I may decide to get shims on the cleat on shorter
leg.

A Muzi

cornejo.apablaza@gmail.com wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago my riding partner told me that me my right knee
> goes outward in the top pedal stroke.
> I ride a lot and I don't suffer any pain in the knees nor in any other
> part of my body.
> I've read (from Andy Pruitt) that if the knee goes inward use wedges
> in the cleat, and if the knee goes outward fix the cleats in the
> inside of the shoe, near the frame.
> Does anyone of you knows any other tip for this symptom? Should it be
> harmful?
> At first I think don't because I've always ridden the same.
> Regards from Chile,

When you say, "I ride a lot and I don't suffer any pain" that makes your
knee orientation a mildly interesting phenomenon but hardly a 'problem'!
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

RicodJour

On Jun 26, 1:25 pm, Woland99 <wolan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 26, 11:53 am, cornejo.apabl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Hello dear fellow members of this list,
>
> > A couple of weeks ago my riding partner told me that me my right knee
> > goes outward in the top pedal stroke.
> > I ride a lot and I don't suffer any pain in the knees nor in any other
> > part of my body.
> > I've read (from Andy Pruitt) that if the knee goes inward use wedges
> > in the cleat, and if the knee goes outward fix the cleats in the
> > inside of the shoe, near the frame.
> > Does anyone of you knows any other tip for this symptom? Should it be
> > harmful?
> > At first I think don't because I've always ridden the same.
> > Regards from Chile,
>
> > Roberto
>
> I was told the same thing when I went to get my bike fit at LBS.
> Turned that one of my legs is slightly longer (1/8 in or so).
> They sold me shoe inserts by Specialized (Body Geometry) with
> shims that can correct knee position. Unfortunately I have very
> wide feet and even with extra wide SIDI shoes I could not really
> ride with inserts in. So I stopped using them - it did not seem
> to affect the health of my knees either way. Learning how to pedal
> fast in easier gear was much more of a factor in that respect.
> Eventually I may decide to get shims on the cleat on shorter
> leg.

A buddy of mine had a Serotta made a few years back. When he was
telling me about getting fit for the bike, I asked him which leg of
his was longer. He said, Left...wait, how did you know my legs
weren't the same length? Hardly anybody has the same length legs,
replied I. His discrepancy was nearer to 1/2" (big guy - 6'5") and he
never noticed it while riding, playing basketball, soccer, whatever.
Never caused pain or anything else.

It's when people learn of the discrepancy and try to 'correct' it,
even though it's never caused any discomfort, that they end up messing
up their knees. Your discrepancy is not worth mentioning unless you
have some pain. Even then, as you've already discovered, it's more
often the pedal stroke, seat height or any number of other factors
that are more likely to cause pain.

R

Lou Holtman

cornejo.apablaza@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello dear fellow members of this list,
>
> A couple of weeks ago my riding partner told me that me my right knee
> goes outward in the top pedal stroke.
> I ride a lot and I don't suffer any pain in the knees nor in any other
> part of my body.
> I've read (from Andy Pruitt) that if the knee goes inward use wedges
> in the cleat, and if the knee goes outward fix the cleats in the
> inside of the shoe, near the frame.
> Does anyone of you knows any other tip for this symptom? Should it be
> harmful?
> At first I think don't because I've always ridden the same.
> Regards from Chile,
>
> Roberto

I have some kind of hip problem (too complicated for me to explain in
English) and my left knee goes outward too. That it's typical for that
kind of hip problem my doctor said. He advised me to pay attention and
try to suppress that movement. I do now and my hip problem is much
better now. Fortunately cycling is the best thing one can do with that
problem ;-). YMMV though.

Lou

RicodJour

On Jun 26, 2:32 pm, Lou Holtman <lholditn...@planet.nl> wrote:
> cornejo.apabl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hello dear fellow members of this list,
>
> > A couple of weeks ago my riding partner told me that me my right knee
> > goes outward in the top pedal stroke.
> > I ride a lot and I don't suffer any pain in the knees nor in any other
> > part of my body.
> > I've read (from Andy Pruitt) that if the knee goes inward use wedges
> > in the cleat, and if the knee goes outward fix the cleats in the
> > inside of the shoe, near the frame.
> > Does anyone of you knows any other tip for this symptom? Should it be
> > harmful?
> > At first I think don't because I've always ridden the same.
> > Regards from Chile,
>
> > Roberto
>
> I have some kind of hip problem (too complicated for me to explain in
> English) and my left knee goes outward too. That it's typical for that
> kind of hip problem my doctor said. He advised me to pay attention and
> try to suppress that movement. I do now and my hip problem is much
> better now. Fortunately cycling is the best thing one can do with that
> problem ;-). YMMV though.

Are you deducting the DeRosa Prince and Assos as medical expenses?

Woland99

On Jun 26, 1:07 pm, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 26, 1:25 pm, Woland99 <wolan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 26, 11:53 am, cornejo.apabl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > Hello dear fellow members of this list,
>
> > > A couple of weeks ago my riding partner told me that me my right knee
> > > goes outward in the top pedal stroke.
> > > I ride a lot and I don't suffer any pain in the knees nor in any other
> > > part of my body.
> > > I've read (from Andy Pruitt) that if the knee goes inward use wedges
> > > in the cleat, and if the knee goes outward fix the cleats in the
> > > inside of the shoe, near the frame.
> > > Does anyone of you knows any other tip for this symptom? Should it be
> > > harmful?
> > > At first I think don't because I've always ridden the same.
> > > Regards from Chile,
>
> > > Roberto
>
> > I was told the same thing when I went to get my bike fit at LBS.
> > Turned that one of my legs is slightly longer (1/8 in or so).
> > They sold me shoe inserts by Specialized (Body Geometry) with
> > shims that can correct knee position. Unfortunately I have very
> > wide feet and even with extra wide SIDI shoes I could not really
> > ride with inserts in. So I stopped using them - it did not seem
> > to affect the health of my knees either way. Learning how to pedal
> > fast in easier gear was much more of a factor in that respect.
> > Eventually I may decide to get shims on the cleat on shorter
> > leg.
>
> A buddy of mine had a Serotta made a few years back. When he was
> telling me about getting fit for the bike, I asked him which leg of
> his was longer. He said, Left...wait, how did you know my legs
> weren't the same length? Hardly anybody has the same length legs,
> replied I. His discrepancy was nearer to 1/2" (big guy - 6'5") and he
> never noticed it while riding, playing basketball, soccer, whatever.
> Never caused pain or anything else.
>
> It's when people learn of the discrepancy and try to 'correct' it,
> even though it's never caused any discomfort, that they end up messing
> up their knees. Your discrepancy is not worth mentioning unless you
> have some pain. Even then, as you've already discovered, it's more
> often the pedal stroke, seat height or any number of other factors
> that are more likely to cause pain.
>
> R

In my case I had knee problems but it was because of my weight
and being too ambitious on hills. Eventually I learned how to
pedal faster and that made a lot of difference. And I accumulated
enough miles I guess - your joints get stronger. I still put cold
pack on my knee after coming back - but only occasionally now -
before it would be after every ride.

Tim McNamara

In article
<8c4e19eb-5a75-42ef-aa45-948b4d89cc43@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
cornejo.apablaza@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello dear fellow members of this list,
>
> A couple of weeks ago my riding partner told me that me my right knee
> goes outward in the top pedal stroke. I ride a lot and I don't suffer
> any pain in the knees nor in any other part of my body. I've read
> (from Andy Pruitt) that if the knee goes inward use wedges in the
> cleat, and if the knee goes outward fix the cleats in the inside of
> the shoe, near the frame. Does anyone of you knows any other tip for
> this symptom? Should it be harmful? At first I think don't because
> I've always ridden the same. Regards from Chile,
>
> Roberto

You've ridden for years this way with no problems? Then I would say
it's something I would not worry about if it was my knee.

Mark

Woland99 wrote:
[...]
> In my case I had knee problems but it was because of my weight
> and being too ambitious on hills. Eventually I learned how to
> pedal faster and that made a lot of difference. And I accumulated
> enough miles I guess - your joints get stronger.

Gee, it would be great if our joints get stronger (bad Cheech & Chong
joke omitted here), I'm starting to worry that as we get older, it's the
opposite.

Seriously, though, is there any physiological mechanism for our joints
to improve with training? I can understand stronger muscles better
supporting our joints, but do our joints themselves change with
training? I do agree that with training, joint pain goes down for me -
just don't know /why/.

Mark J.

Woland99

On Jun 26, 8:58 pm, Mark <mandmljNOS...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:
> Woland99 wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > In my case I had knee problems but it was because of my weight
> > and being too ambitious on hills. Eventually I learned how to
> > pedal faster and that made a lot of difference. And I accumulated
> > enough miles I guess - your joints get stronger.
>
> Gee, it would be great if our joints get stronger (bad Cheech & Chong
> joke omitted here), I'm starting to worry that as we get older, it's the
> opposite.
>
> Seriously, though, is there any physiological mechanism for our joints
> to improve with training? I can understand stronger muscles better
> supporting our joints, but do our joints themselves change with
> training? I do agree that with training, joint pain goes down for me -
> just don't know /why/.
>
> Mark J.

"is there any physiological mechanism for our joints to improve with
training?"
Good question - I do not know the answer - but perhaps it is a bit
like that
problem with professional riders and osteoporosis - you sweat out
calcium but
because biking is low impact sport your body does not get enough input
to
decide to build up your bones. So perhaps (despite being low impact)
cycling
still provides enough stress so somehow your body decides to send
extra building
material to your joints.

John Forrest Tomlinson

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:58:00 -0700, Mark
<mandmljNOSPAM@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:

>Seriously, though, is there any physiological mechanism for our joints
>to improve with training? I can understand stronger muscles better
>supporting our joints, but do our joints themselves change with
>training? I do agree that with training, joint pain goes down for me -
>just don't know /why/.

Increased blood flow. Increased muscle strength and/or flexibility
around the joints keeping the joints more stable or flexible as
needed.

Mark

Woland99 wrote:
> On Jun 26, 8:58 pm, Mark <mandmljNOS...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:
>> Seriously, though, is there any physiological mechanism for our joints
>> to improve with training? I can understand stronger muscles better
>> supporting our joints, but do our joints themselves change with
>> training? I do agree that with training, joint pain goes down for me -
>> just don't know /why/.
>>
>> Mark J.
>
> "is there any physiological mechanism for our joints to improve with
> training?"
> Good question - I do not know the answer - but perhaps it is a bit
> like that
> problem with professional riders and osteoporosis - you sweat out
> calcium but
> because biking is low impact sport your body does not get enough input
> to
> decide to build up your bones. So perhaps (despite being low impact)
> cycling
> still provides enough stress so somehow your body decides to send
> extra building
> material to your joints.

I hadn't thought about bone density issues. I recently read about a
study that said /vibration/ by itself prompted the body to build bone.
There's a reason to hate chip seal a little /less/, but I'm glad my
county is repaving all its rural roads, nonetheless.

JFT's comment about improved blood flow makes a lot of sense.

Mark J.

cornejo.apablaza@gmail.com

Dear Cyclists,

Thanks to you all: Since my neighbor from Argentina through the guy
who couldn't explain his problem in English.
The solidarity showed in the posts is worldwide
In fact I've ridden for many years and thousands of kilometers the
same way, the physician has said my legs are the same length.
Now I'm 47, and commute 20 km Mo-Fr (round trip) plus a 100-140 km in
one long ride on Sunday.
In the future, I will think of the knee movement as something just
peculiar.
Best regards from Chile,

Roberto