And make no mistake, cyclists are criminals.

David Damerell

Quoting burtthebike <burtthebike@blueyonder.co.uk>:
>since the poster about double white lines didn't make any claims as to
>speed,

I did not anticipate the necessary idiot-proofing.

>it is extremely unlikely that any driver would be prosecuted for
>overtaking a cyclist in these circumstances

That doesn't mean it's not illegal.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Oil is for sissies
Today is First Tuesday, Presuary.

Ekul Namsob

Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:58:34 +0100, Paul Boyd <abcd@invalid.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On 25/06/2008 15:41, NewRiderPS said,
> >
> >> If you've never exceeded the speed limit (except momentarily to pass),
> >> never run a red light and never double parked, I applaud you and your
> >> Model-T.
> >
> >Smiley noted, but surely you're not suggesting it's unusual for someone
> >never to have jumped a red light or parked illegally? I would agree
> >that it would be unusual to find someone who has never exceeded the
> >speed limit, but these people do exist, so I'm told.
>
> I find it difficult to imagine the existence of people that don't do
> all of the above on a regular basis.

Why? It's quite easy to park legally and before every red light there's
an amber one.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Ekul Namsob

NewRiderPS <rider01@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:04:40 +0100, Paul Boyd <abcd@invalid.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On 25/06/2008 15:38, NewRiderPS said,
> >
> >> Not another car in sight, we were following an unmarked car
> >> going down mainstreet doing 15 in a 25mph zone.
> >
> >Go on then - who's going to point out the obvious? ;-)
> >
> >Incidentally, assuming you mean double white lines and you are in the
> >UK, you did break the law.
>
> Well our assumption was that there was something wrong with the car.
> Yes it was criminal and breaking the law to travel 10mph below the
> speed limit and if it had been a cop car behind the unmarked car it
> would have been hilarious to see him pull the guy over.

In this country, it is not illegal to travel 10mph below the speed
limit. Are you sure it is illegal to do so in yours?

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Ace

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:55:32 +0100,
notmyaddress.1.ekulnamsob@wronghead.com (Ekul Namsob) wrote:

>Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:58:34 +0100, Paul Boyd <abcd@invalid.net>
>> wrote:

>> >Smiley noted, but surely you're not suggesting it's unusual for someone
>> >never to have jumped a red light or parked illegally? I would agree
>> >that it would be unusual to find someone who has never exceeded the
>> >speed limit, but these people do exist, so I'm told.
>>
>> I find it difficult to imagine the existence of people that don't do
>> all of the above on a regular basis.
>
>Why? It's quite easy to park legally

Rather depends where you are, doesn't it?

>and before every red light there's an amber one.

That's also country-dependent, but even so there can be times when you
know it's only red to allow pedestrians on the right-turn, and you're
going straight on, and much more importantly, you're not fit enough to
cycle the 50km you've committed to do that day and every stop avoided
counts.

That was my excuse on Tuesday, but much more often I'll go through a
red light when there's road works and I can see that the oncoming
traffic has now stopped for a red, but it's nit yet changed for me.
Sod waiting, if I know that nothing can be oncoming.


--
Ace in Alsace

NewRiderPS

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:55:33 +0100,
notmyaddress.1.ekulnamsob@wronghead.com (Ekul Namsob) wrote:

>NewRiderPS <rider01@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:04:40 +0100, Paul Boyd <abcd@invalid.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On 25/06/2008 15:38, NewRiderPS said,
>> >
>> >> Not another car in sight, we were following an unmarked car
>> >> going down mainstreet doing 15 in a 25mph zone.
>> >
>> >Go on then - who's going to point out the obvious? ;-)
>> >
>> >Incidentally, assuming you mean double white lines and you are in the
>> >UK, you did break the law.
>>
>> Well our assumption was that there was something wrong with the car.
>> Yes it was criminal and breaking the law to travel 10mph below the
>> speed limit and if it had been a cop car behind the unmarked car it
>> would have been hilarious to see him pull the guy over.
>
>In this country, it is not illegal to travel 10mph below the speed
>limit. Are you sure it is illegal to do so in yours?
>
>Cheers,
>Luke

Fair enough. I'll try to verify that figure...

OK, Tennesee police recently pulled over a driver for going 20 in a
35. Supreme Court ruled it a valid stop.

I'm not in North Carolina, but here's a cite:

Trooper Cites Man For Driving Too Slow In Attempt To Save Gas
This applies to North Carolina.

I. 40 MPH on interstate and primary highways with a posted speed limit
of 55 MPH. State Law 2'20-141(c)(1)
II. 45 MPH on interstate and primary highways with a posted speed
limit greater than 60mph limit State Law 2'20-141(c)(2)

In the UK it may be different, but they will probably pull you over
and find a reason to cite you.

Rob Morley

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:09:57 -0400
NewRiderPS <rider01@verizon.net> wrote:

> In the UK it may be different, but they will probably pull you over
> and find a reason to cite you.
>
In the UK they could be charged with obstruction, but that's only
likely if it was causing a significant problem (e.g. long tailback
leading to dangerous overtaking, dangerous difference between their
speed and the normal speed on that road). They'd more likely be let off
with a caution unless there was any reason to suspect their driving or
vehicle was otherwise substandard.

David Damerell

Quoting Richard Thrippleton <ret28@cam.ac.uk>:
>On a related note, it does make me rather sad that too many people in
>both camps conflate being pro-cycling with being anti-motorist.

It makes me rather sad that more people in our camp don't. It is quite
obvious that the primary factor affecting how pleasant cycling is is the
number of cars, and that cars directly discourage cycling.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Wednesday, Presuary.

Ekul Namsob

NewRiderPS <rider01@verizon.net> wrote:


> Trooper Cites Man For Driving Too Slow In Attempt To Save Gas
> This applies to North Carolina.
>
> I. 40 MPH on interstate and primary highways with a posted speed limit
> of 55 MPH. State Law 2'20-141(c)(1)
> II. 45 MPH on interstate and primary highways with a posted speed
> limit greater than 60mph limit State Law 2'20-141(c)(2)
>
> In the UK it may be different, but they will probably pull you over
> and find a reason to cite you.

I would be astonished to find that they did, not least because HGVs are
only allowed to travel at 40 mph where there is a 60 mph limit. In this
country, maximum speed limits are just that. A policeman would have to
suspect I was committing an offence in order to pull me over.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Ekul Namsob

Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:55:32 +0100,
> notmyaddress.1.ekulnamsob@wronghead.com (Ekul Namsob) wrote:
>
> >Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:58:34 +0100, Paul Boyd <abcd@invalid.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Smiley noted, but surely you're not suggesting it's unusual for someone
> >> >never to have jumped a red light or parked illegally? I would agree
> >> >that it would be unusual to find someone who has never exceeded the
> >> >speed limit, but these people do exist, so I'm told.
> >>
> >> I find it difficult to imagine the existence of people that don't do
> >> all of the above on a regular basis.
> >
> >Why? It's quite easy to park legally
>
> Rather depends where you are, doesn't it?

No. It doesn't depend on location at all. If I cannot park legally in a
particular location then I park legally in a different location and use
those strange things called feet that I appear to possess.
>
> >and before every red light there's an amber one.
>
> That's also country-dependent,

This is uk.rec.cycling.

> but even so there can be times when you
> know it's only red to allow pedestrians on the right-turn, and you're
> going straight on, and much more importantly, you're not fit enough to
> cycle the 50km you've committed to do that day and every stop avoided
> counts.

That is a pathetic excuse.

Cheers,
Luke


--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

Paul Boyd

Rob Morley said the following on 27/06/2008 13:04:

> In the UK they could be charged with obstruction, but that's only
> likely if it was causing a significant problem (e.g. long tailback
> leading to dangerous overtaking, dangerous difference between their
> speed and the normal speed on that road).

There was a case in Bristol recently where a woman was driving down the
M32 at a ludicrously slow speed (for a motorway). I *think* she got a
short ban, but ICBA to look up the story now!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Ace

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:43:51 +0100,
notmyaddress.1.ekulnamsob@wronghead.com (Ekul Namsob) wrote:

>Ace <b.rogers@ifrance.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:55:32 +0100,
>> notmyaddress.1.ekulnamsob@wronghead.com (Ekul Namsob) wrote:

>> >Why? It's quite easy to park legally
>>
>> Rather depends where you are, doesn't it?
>
>No. It doesn't depend on location at all. If I cannot park legally in a
>particular location then I park legally in a different location and use
>those strange things called feet that I appear to possess.

Good for you. I hope you get a nice warm feeling about it.

>> but even so there can be times when you
>> know it's only red to allow pedestrians on the right-turn, and you're
>> going straight on, and much more importantly, you're not fit enough to
>> cycle the 50km you've committed to do that day and every stop avoided
>> counts.
>
>That is a pathetic excuse.

Excuse? I don't need no steenking excuses.

--
Ace in Alsace

Paul Boyd

Ekul Namsob said the following on 27/06/2008 19:43:

> I would be astonished to find that they did, not least because HGVs are
> only allowed to travel at 40 mph where there is a 60 mph limit.

....and how many people actually know that when they're grumbling about
being behind a slow lorry. Or the fact that a van can only travel at
50mph in a 60 limit.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Neil Williams

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:11:31 +0100, Paul Boyd <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>...and how many people actually know that when they're grumbling about
>being behind a slow lorry. Or the fact that a van can only travel at
>50mph in a 60 limit.

That's not quite true, it's only the case on a single-carriageway
road. I have a feeling it's 50 on a dual for a lorry.

Vans are an odd one. My Citroen Berlingo is a car (it's got seats and
windows in the back) and thus gets the car limits. An otherwise
identical version without the seats or windows gets the lower van
limits. This doesn't strike me as making a lot of sense any more -
the only difference between the two is seats and back windows, neither
of which make any real difference to the safe speed of forward
progress.

There is an exemption to this for car-derived vans, but as this is
actually more of a van-derived car the van version doesn't get this
exemption, AIUI.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Roger Merriman

Paul Boyd <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> Rob Morley said the following on 27/06/2008 13:04:
>
> > In the UK they could be charged with obstruction, but that's only
> > likely if it was causing a significant problem (e.g. long tailback
> > leading to dangerous overtaking, dangerous difference between their
> > speed and the normal speed on that road).
>
> There was a case in Bristol recently where a woman was driving down the
> M32 at a ludicrously slow speed (for a motorway). I *think* she got a
> short ban, but ICBA to look up the story now!

10mph half on the hard shoulder etc.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com