And make no mistake, cyclists are criminals.

Martin

Letter in the local paper calls all cyclists terrorists and criminals.

Links to the paper copy.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/md451/2607598114/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/md451/2607597290/sizes/l/

online:
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/disp...tentPK=20935661

Dylan Smith

On 2008-06-24, Martin <martin.dann@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> Letter in the local paper calls all cyclists terrorists and criminals.

Looks like a bit of an obvious troll to me.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Daniel Barlow

Dylan Smith <dylan@vexed3.alioth.net> writes:

> On 2008-06-24, Martin <martin.dann@virgin.net> wrote:
>>
>> Letter in the local paper calls all cyclists terrorists and criminals.
>
> Looks like a bit of an obvious troll to me.

That or the intelligence levl of Bristolians is significantly sub par,
if that's the best they can come up with to put on their letters page.

Either way, thisisabristol.co.uk ends up looking like a bit of a tit.


-dan

Tom Anderson

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, Martin wrote:

> Letter in the local paper calls all cyclists terrorists and criminals.
>
> Links to the paper copy.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/md451/2607598114/sizes/l/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/md451/2607597290/sizes/l/
>
> online:
> http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/disp...tentPK=20935661

The fact that the column is called 'soapbox' makes me think that it's one
where the whole point is to get an inflammatory opinion published, to
'provoke debate', or at least add a bit of life to an otherwise terminally
dull paper. They have something similar in one of the London freesheets,
but i don't remember which - to be honest, i have trouble distinguishing
the deliberately unorthodox imbecilic drivel from the carefully
conventional imbecilic drivel.

But here's the chap who wrote the above article on Facebook, if you fancy
poking him angrily:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Jamie_Caddick/719230557

tom

--
this news group concentrate the debil of usenet -- uk.local.london motto

Paul Boyd

Martin said the following on 24/06/2008 14:03:
>
> Letter in the local paper calls all cyclists terrorists and criminals.
>
> Links to the paper copy.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/md451/2607598114/sizes/l/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/md451/2607597290/sizes/l/

....which is why there were loud guffaws all round when this was
announced. The attitude of the average Bristolian towards *any* other
road user stinks - there's a hell of a lot more that needs to change
before throwing money away. I was not sad to leave the place after
30-odd years.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

David Hansen

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:03:41 +0100 someone who may be Martin
<martin.dann@virgin.net> wrote this:-

>http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/disp...tentPK=20935661

The first comment, the one at the bottom of the comments, starts off
with all the rebuttal necessary:

"Your letter is very far from a genuine argument Jamie Caddick.
There is accusation, name-calling, stereotyping, vitriol, cynicism,
insult, exaggeration and ignorance aplenty. I wonder if your letter
is more likely to be persuade people that actually the money for
cycling is pretty reasonable such is your ranting onslaught."



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

NewRiderPS

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:03:41 +0100, Martin <martin.dann@virgin.net>
wrote:

>
>Letter in the local paper calls all cyclists terrorists and criminals.
>

You might be able to make the case that -some- cyclists are criminals.
There is the doping scandal, the red-light jumpers, the pavement
riders.

But I like to think those are the actions of a few.

Contrast this to car drivers who purposely break the law. Everyone
speeds, runs lights and parks illegally, hoping not to get caught.
Drivers use their cars as weapons, threaten and harass other drivers,
intentionally run other road users off the road.

And these are, sadly, not actions of the few. We all tend to go a
listless psycho behind the wheel now and then; it's embarrassing.

The majority of cyclists just want to ride in peace and not be
bothered, and show a lot of tolerance. It's almost the reverse of the
car-driving psycho. They will de-escalate and ride on where possible
even when assaulted and harnessed.

NewRiderPS

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:30:38 -0400, NewRiderPS <rider01@verizon.net>
wrote:

>And these are, sadly, not actions of the few. We all tend to go a
>listless psycho behind the wheel now and then; it's embarrassing.
>
>The majority of cyclists just want to ride in peace and not be
>bothered, and show a lot of tolerance. It's almost the reverse of the
>car-driving psycho. They will de-escalate and ride on where possible
>even when assaulted and harnessed.

Dayum spell checker. That's 'go a little psycho' and 'assaulted and
harassed.'

LOL.

John Kane

On Jun 24, 12:32*pm, NewRiderPS <ride...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:30:38 -0400, NewRiderPS <ride...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >And these are, sadly, not actions of the few. We all tend to go a
> >listless psycho behind the wheel now and then; it's embarrassing.
>
> >The majority of cyclists just want to ride in peace and not be
> >bothered, and show a lot of tolerance. It's almost the reverse of the
> >car-driving psycho. They will de-escalate and ride on where possible
> >even when assaulted and harnessed.
>
> Dayum spell checker. That's 'go a little psycho' and 'assaulted and
> harassed.'
>
> LOL.

I rather liked the listless psycho. I had this image of a middle-aged
overweight man wearing a suit and tie and in a big car, lolling behind
the steering wheel as he roared down the street.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

Tom Anderson

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, John Kane wrote:

> On Jun 24, 12:32*pm, NewRiderPS <ride...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:30:38 -0400, NewRiderPS <ride...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And these are, sadly, not actions of the few. We all tend to go a
>>> listless psycho behind the wheel now and then; it's embarrassing.
>>
>> Dayum spell checker. That's 'go a little psycho'
>
> I rather liked the listless psycho. I had this image of a middle-aged
> overweight man wearing a suit and tie and in a big car, lolling behind
> the steering wheel as he roared down the street.

You are J. G. Ballard AICMFP.

tom

--
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets
of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a
whole galaxy of multi colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and
also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw
ether and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all this for the trip,
but once you get locked in a serious drug collection, the tendency is
to push it as far as you can. -- Hunter S. Thompson, 'Fear and loathing
in Las Vegas'

David Damerell

Quoting NewRiderPS <rider01@verizon.net>:
>Contrast this to car drivers who purposely break the law. Everyone
>speeds, runs lights and parks illegally, hoping not to get caught.

If you really want an "everyone" case, ride up a road with double white
lines and count how many people don't overtake illegally.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Olethros, Presuary - a weekend.

Tom Anderson

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008, NewRiderPS wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:03:41 +0100, Martin <martin.dann@virgin.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Letter in the local paper calls all cyclists terrorists and criminals.
>
> You might be able to make the case that -some- cyclists are criminals.
> There is the doping scandal, the red-light jumpers, the pavement riders.
>
> But I like to think those are the actions of a few.
>
> Contrast this to car drivers who purposely break the law. Everyone
> speeds, runs lights and parks illegally, hoping not to get caught.

I think you're wrong. In fact, i think you have exactly the same blind
spot as the cagers: "we're white as the driven snow, and it's the other
guys who are making the trouble!". I think RLJing is as common amongst
cyclists as speeding is among motorists. Pavement riding is less common,
but i'd wager it's still something occasionally practiced by a majority of
cyclists.

Maybe i'm just generalising from my own experience, though. I jump more
red lights than i can count [1], and there's a stretch of pavement on my
commute that i routinely cycle along [2]. Maybe i'm just assuming everyone
is just as criminal as me.

tom

[1] Of course, only when i can tell for certain that i won't be getting in
the way of any pedestrians or drivers - i'm a criminal, not a sociopath.

[2] I do this here (hope this works):

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&h...004957&t=k&z=18

The blue line is the route i'd have to take if following the law, round a
busy and fast (well, or sometimes red-light-ridden) gyratory, exposing
myself to danger and holding up motorists (for shame!). Instead, i
pavement onto the triangular island, across it, across Theobald's Road (or
whatever it is at that point), via pedestrian crossing or between
gridlocked cars onto the pavement on the north side, then along that to
Southampton Row, where i use a pedestrian crossing to cross, and then
rejoin the road. There is very light pedestrian traffic here at the times
i do this (around lunchtime, 1300-1400), and i am scrupulously careful to
ride slowly and give pedestrians a wide berth. I'm breaking the law, but
i'm not doing or risking doing anyone any harm, and that's what matters.

--
The ultimate crime-based society is one where everyone is criminal and no
one is aware of the fact. -- J. G. Ballard, Cocaine Nights

Richard Thrippleton

NewRiderPS wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:03:41 +0100, Martin <martin.dann@virgin.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Letter in the local paper calls all cyclists terrorists and criminals.
>>
>
> You might be able to make the case that -some- cyclists are criminals.
> There is the doping scandal, the red-light jumpers, the pavement
> riders.
>
> But I like to think those are the actions of a few.
You're probably quite right.

> Contrast this to car drivers who purposely break the law. Everyone
> speeds, runs lights and parks illegally, hoping not to get caught.
> Drivers use their cars as weapons, threaten and harass other drivers,
> intentionally run other road users off the road.
>
> And these are, sadly, not actions of the few.
Do you have anything to back this up? You seem to be the mirror image of
the anti-cycling troll in the paper, painting with a broad brush. I
can't speak for speeding, but anecdotally I don't see much light jumping
by cars, and probably proportionally less than cyclists. I've personally
never been attacked or run off the road by a motorist, but have been
harassed only a few times in my life.

On a related note, it does make me rather sad that too many people in
both camps conflate being pro-cycling with being anti-motorist. Not all
"lycra louts" hate cars, and you don't have to hate cars to be a real
cyclist.

Richard

naked_draughtsman

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:23:53 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:

> Maybe i'm just generalising from my own experience, though. I jump more
> red lights than i can count [1], and there's a stretch of pavement on my
> commute that i routinely cycle along [2]. Maybe i'm just assuming everyone
> is just as criminal as me.

*apologies if this posts twice*

I think you are generalising, but I wouldn't worry about it.

When I've visited London I've noticed that probably 50% of cyclists ignore
red lights (although they proceed cautiously through them) but I don't
think I've ever seen anyone cycling on the pavement. I've certainly never
had anyone nearly ride into me while I've been walking on the pavement.

However here in Wrexham I estimate that 50% of cyclists ride on the
pavement but only 5-10% jump red lights.

There's a massive regional variation in behaviour of cyclists, as there is
with the attitude of the police to such issues.

peter