Last TDF winner to flat?

carlfogel@comcast.net

Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?

If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
flat tire?

I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
complete blank.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Mike Jacoubowsky

<carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m6v064dhvdl5au52vc87k39e0ipiag0a00@4ax.com...
> Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>
> If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
> flat tire?
>
> I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
> complete blank.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

Carl: Lance was one of the most incredibly-lucky cyclists ever. He didn't
get flats, period. He didn't crash. He had amazing luck when things could
have gone very badly (the "shortcut" when Beloki ate the pavement).

In general, I think you'll find stronger riders get fewer flats, whether
racing or otherwise. It's the guys towards the middle & back that have the
problems, because they don't get to see the road ahead of them. In fact,
there's a phenomenon we see at the shop quite often where the guy who's
always just barely hanging onto the back of the fast rides is doing a number
on tires & wheels that's way out of proportion to the miles ridden, because
he's just following wheels and doesn't have the energy to avoid the potholes
& such that suddenly open up in front of him.

But getting back to the Tour de France, you also need to keep in mind that
there are few flats among *any* of the riders. If you've ridden the roads,
you'd see why. They generally use roads that are already in excellent shape
or are re-paved not long before the 'Tour comes through. Too bad they won't
bother to use asphalt that doesn't melt at room temperature.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA



<carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m6v064dhvdl5au52vc87k39e0ipiag0a00@4ax.com...
> Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>
> If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
> flat tire?
>
> I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
> complete blank.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

Ryan Cousineau

In article <m6v064dhvdl5au52vc87k39e0ipiag0a00@4ax.com>,
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

> Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>
> If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
> flat tire?
>
> I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
> complete blank.

The biggest problem is that a flat tire, in many circumstances, can be
completely inconsequential even for a GC hopeful. If a rider gets a flat
in the middle of yet another flat stage where there's a break off the
front by 10 minutes, rolling back to the team car to pick up a fresh
wheel and return to action is not a big deal. If it is a big deal, the
rider has options ranging from taking a wheel or bike from a teammate,
to taking a wheel or bike from Neutral Support, to making several of his
teammates wait with him so he has a chase group to drag him back to the
peloton.

So there may well have been cases where the tire swap was so
inconsequential that none of the race reports mentioned it. It's
unlikely, but not inconceivable that it wouldn't even get picked up on
the Tour TV coverage.

Note also that we have Oscar Pereiro and Alberto Contador as the last
two Tour winners (the former inheriting victory after Floyd Landis'
annus testosteronis). I don't know if either had a flat, but
Cyclingnews.com does still have a pretty good archive of past coverage.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

phs123@gmail.com

carlfo...@comcast.net skrev:
> Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>
> If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
> flat tire?

Lance Armstrong had punctures during the TdF, not many and they didn't
have any consequences for the stages. On most stretches of a typical
TdF stage, a puncture is something inconvenient but not catastrophic
regarding the stage win or the GC.

--
Regards

smokey

On Jun 23, 11:12*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com>
wrote:
> <carlfo...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:m6v064dhvdl5au52vc87k39e0ipiag0a00@4ax.com...
>
> > Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>
> > If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
> > flat tire?
>
> > I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
> > complete blank.
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Carl Fogel
>
> Carl: Lance was one of the most incredibly-lucky cyclists ever. He didn't
> get flats, period. He didn't crash. He had amazing luck when things could
> have gone very badly (the "shortcut" when Beloki ate the pavement).
>
> In general, I think you'll find stronger riders get fewer flats, whether
> racing or otherwise. It's the guys towards the middle & back that have the
> problems, because they don't get to see the road ahead of them. In fact,
> there's a phenomenon we see at the shop quite often where the guy who's
> always just barely hanging onto the back of the fast rides is doing a number
> on tires & wheels that's way out of proportion to the miles ridden, because
> he's just following wheels and doesn't have the energy to avoid the potholes
> & such that suddenly open up in front of him.
>
> But getting back to the Tour de France, you also need to keep in mind that
> there are few flats among *any* of the riders. If you've ridden the roads,
> you'd see why. They generally use roads that are already in excellent shape
> or are re-paved not long before the 'Tour comes through. Too bad they won't
> bother to use asphalt that doesn't melt at room temperature.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
>
> <carlfo...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:m6v064dhvdl5au52vc87k39e0ipiag0a00@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>
> > If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
> > flat tire?
>
> > I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
> > complete blank.
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Carl Fogel- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mike, I believe Lance did fall in that big crash in the early stages
of the TDF in 2003 that broke Tyler Hamilton's collarbone. As far as
flats, I have the DVD of the 1990 TDF and Lemond flatted while wearing
the yellow jersey in one of the later stages.

Smokey

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:57:42 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:

>Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>
>If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
>flat tire?
>
>I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
>complete blank.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Carl Fogel

Mike Jacoubowsky says, "Lance was one of the most incredibly-lucky
cyclists ever. He didn't get flats, period."

Hmmm . . . I'm willing to believe it.

PHS123 at gmail.com says, "Lance Armstrong had punctures during the
TdF, not many and they didn't have any consequences for the stages."

Hmmm . . . I'm willing to believe this, too--Mike could have missed
the flats. But a link or details about even a single Armstrong flat
would help. Was this reported in magazines, seen on television, or
what?

Smokey says, "As far as flats, I have the DVD of the 1990 TDF and
Lemond flatted while wearing the yellow jersey in one of the later
stages."

Hmmm . . . So for sure Lemond in the 1990 TDF, but that's eighteen
years ago.

I broke down and googled for "Armstrong flatted," but that produced
only the news that Armstrong flatted in 1997 in "El Tour de Tucson":

"Lance Armstrong, to whom the ride was dedicated, suffered the same
fate as Chris Horner. Armstrong flatted just after the winning move
broke away and was content to just ride in and finish."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/...v97/nov25a.html

Does anyone have a link to a page about a TDF winner with a flat tire
since 1990? Or a DVD where it's shown?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Victor Kan

Would you count Floyd and his TT bike tire defect that caused him to
be something like 10+ seconds late to the start house?

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:21:51 -0700 (PDT), Victor Kan
<victor.kan@gmail.com> wrote:

>Would you count Floyd and his TT bike tire defect that caused him to
>be something like 10+ seconds late to the start house?

Dear Victor,

I'd have to say no, but thanks for that curious example.

What I really want are genuine no-doubt-about-it flats from debris or
impacts during the race.

Since Floyd was considered the winner at the end of the Tour, I'd
count any flats that he had after the start and before the finish of a
stage.

But I draw a blank on whether that happened. Maybe Floyd flatted and
it wasn't considered worth comment? Or maybe he had a dramatic flat
and everybody else remembers it except me?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

On Jun 24, 1:24*pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:57:42 -0600, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> >Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>
> >If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
> >flat tire?
>
> >I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
> >complete blank.
>
> >Cheers,
>
> >Carl Fogel
>
> Mike Jacoubowsky says, "Lance was one of the most incredibly-lucky
> cyclists ever. He didn't get flats, period."
>
> Hmmm . . . I'm willing to believe it.
>
> PHS123 at gmail.com says, "Lance Armstrong had punctures during the
> TdF, not many and they didn't have any consequences for the stages."
>
> Hmmm . . . I'm willing to believe this, too--Mike could have missed
> the flats. But a link or details about even a single Armstrong flat
> would help. Was this reported in magazines, seen on television, or
> what?
>
> Smokey says, "As far as flats, I have the DVD of the 1990 TDF and
> Lemond flatted while wearing the yellow jersey in one of the later
> stages."
>
> Hmmm . . . So for sure Lemond in the 1990 TDF, but that's eighteen
> years ago.
>
> I broke down and googled for "Armstrong flatted," but that produced
> only the news that Armstrong flatted in 1997 in "El Tour de Tucson":
>
> "Lance Armstrong, to whom the ride was dedicated, suffered the same
> fate as Chris Horner. Armstrong flatted just after the winning move
> broke away and was content to just ride in and finish."
>
> *http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/...v97/nov25a.html
>
> Does anyone have a link to a page about a TDF winner with a flat tire
> since 1990? Or a DVD where it's shown?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

For some reason, this reminds me of an old Monty Python
routine about Mr Pither's Cycling Tour in which he keeps
noting his falls and what happens to his lunch - "Fell off
near Budleigh. Sandwiches badly crushed."

Yes, Tour winners get flats. No, it isn't always newsworthy.
That which exists is not always Googleable.
But here is an example:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycl...tour/wrapup.htm

From the final stage in 1999:
"And not only was Armstrong clad in the yellow shirt of the
race's leader - his wheel was yellow, too.
Later, Armstrong was to lose that newly decorated wheel to a
puncture, but his loyal teammates from the U.S. Postal Service
helped him back to the pack."

It was on the first page of Google results for: armstrong puncture.

Ben

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:46:02 -0700 (PDT), "bjw@mambo.ucolick.org"
<bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:

>On Jun 24, 1:24*pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:57:42 -0600, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>> >Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>>
>> >If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
>> >flat tire?
>>
>> >I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
>> >complete blank.
>>
>> >Cheers,
>>
>> >Carl Fogel
>>
>> Mike Jacoubowsky says, "Lance was one of the most incredibly-lucky
>> cyclists ever. He didn't get flats, period."
>>
>> Hmmm . . . I'm willing to believe it.
>>
>> PHS123 at gmail.com says, "Lance Armstrong had punctures during the
>> TdF, not many and they didn't have any consequences for the stages."
>>
>> Hmmm . . . I'm willing to believe this, too--Mike could have missed
>> the flats. But a link or details about even a single Armstrong flat
>> would help. Was this reported in magazines, seen on television, or
>> what?
>>
>> Smokey says, "As far as flats, I have the DVD of the 1990 TDF and
>> Lemond flatted while wearing the yellow jersey in one of the later
>> stages."
>>
>> Hmmm . . . So for sure Lemond in the 1990 TDF, but that's eighteen
>> years ago.
>>
>> I broke down and googled for "Armstrong flatted," but that produced
>> only the news that Armstrong flatted in 1997 in "El Tour de Tucson":
>>
>> "Lance Armstrong, to whom the ride was dedicated, suffered the same
>> fate as Chris Horner. Armstrong flatted just after the winning move
>> broke away and was content to just ride in and finish."
>>
>> *http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/...v97/nov25a.html
>>
>> Does anyone have a link to a page about a TDF winner with a flat tire
>> since 1990? Or a DVD where it's shown?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>For some reason, this reminds me of an old Monty Python
>routine about Mr Pither's Cycling Tour in which he keeps
>noting his falls and what happens to his lunch - "Fell off
>near Budleigh. Sandwiches badly crushed."
>
>Yes, Tour winners get flats. No, it isn't always newsworthy.
>That which exists is not always Googleable.
>But here is an example:
>http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycl...tour/wrapup.htm
>
>From the final stage in 1999:
> "And not only was Armstrong clad in the yellow shirt of the
> race's leader - his wheel was yellow, too.
> Later, Armstrong was to lose that newly decorated wheel to a
> puncture, but his loyal teammates from the U.S. Postal Service
> helped him back to the pack."
>
>It was on the first page of Google results for: armstrong puncture.
>
>Ben

Dear Ben,

Thanks!

So Armstrong did flat in the TDF in 1999.

Now I have to wonder about this century.

:-)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Patrick Lamb

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:57:42 -0600, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>Did Armstrong have flat tires in the Tour de France?
>
>If not, how far back do we have to go to find a TDF winner who had a
>flat tire?
>
>I'm sure that some RBT posters who know the answers, but I drew a
>complete blank.

I don't know about flats, but he did crash and break his bike (the
chainstay) on the final climb -- anybody remember that one?

Pat

Email address works as is.

2bowlers@gmail.com

On Jun 24, 7:44*pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:

> >> But a link (snip)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...754C0A96F958260

Apologies for using google as a newsread. I know that's considered
Fredly here in nerd land...

Mark

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:40:24 -0700 (PDT), 2bowlers@gmail.com wrote:

>On Jun 24, 7:44*pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> >> But a link (snip)
>
>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...754C0A96F958260
>
>Apologies for using google as a newsread. I know that's considered
>Fredly here in nerd land...
>
>Mark

Dear Mark,

Thanks!

Interestingly, the NYT took a less dramatic view of Armstrong's 1999
flat tire than the earlier example:

"Armstrong, on the other hand, had good luck throughout. He had his
first flat tire of the [1999] Tour today during a mainly ceremonial
final stage, when it did no harm, as it could have done during a stage
in the mountains."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...754C0A96F958260

In contrast, the USA Today article that Ben found made it sound as if
Armstrong was lucky to have a loyal team (unlike those treacherous
domestiques that we all deplore) to get him back into the race:

"And not only was Armstrong clad in the yellow shirt of the race's
leader - his wheel was yellow, too."

"Later, Armstrong was to lose that newly decorated wheel to a
puncture, but his loyal teammates from the U.S. Postal Service helped
him back to the pack."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycl...tour/wrapup.htm

***

So two posters found accounts of Armstrong flatting on the final stage
of 1999.

If that turns out to be Armstrong's only flat in the TDF, Mike can be
forgiven for thinking that Armstrong led a charmed life.

Me, I'm trying to imagine only a single flat in ~2300 miles.

***

As for using Google Groups, no apologies are needed.

Google Groups is free, it works fine for lots of people, its archives
are about the only game in town for RBT, and it entertains grouchy
posters with nothing else to quibble about.

I often use Google Groups when I belatedly reply to a post deleted
from my Agent newsreader.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Kerry Montgomery

<carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:rlf36455opqu8rb8fb1ugfr67snc3l5hct@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:40:24 -0700 (PDT), 2bowlers@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>On Jun 24, 7:44 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>> >> But a link (snip)
>>
>>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...754C0A96F958260
>>
>>Apologies for using google as a newsread. I know that's considered
>>Fredly here in nerd land...
>>
>>Mark
>
> Dear Mark,
>
> Thanks!
>
> Interestingly, the NYT took a less dramatic view of Armstrong's 1999
> flat tire than the earlier example:
>
> "Armstrong, on the other hand, had good luck throughout. He had his
> first flat tire of the [1999] Tour today during a mainly ceremonial
> final stage, when it did no harm, as it could have done during a stage
> in the mountains."
>
> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...754C0A96F958260
>
> In contrast, the USA Today article that Ben found made it sound as if
> Armstrong was lucky to have a loyal team (unlike those treacherous
> domestiques that we all deplore) to get him back into the race:
>
> "And not only was Armstrong clad in the yellow shirt of the race's
> leader - his wheel was yellow, too."
>
> "Later, Armstrong was to lose that newly decorated wheel to a
> puncture, but his loyal teammates from the U.S. Postal Service helped
> him back to the pack."
> http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycl...tour/wrapup.htm
>
> ***
>
> So two posters found accounts of Armstrong flatting on the final stage
> of 1999.
>
> If that turns out to be Armstrong's only flat in the TDF, Mike can be
> forgiven for thinking that Armstrong led a charmed life.
>
> Me, I'm trying to imagine only a single flat in ~2300 miles.
>
snippage

> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

Carl,
That'd be 1 flat in ~(2300 * 7) = 16,100 miles!
Kerry