TK was exactly right. OT

Kurgan Gringioni

On Jun 28, 6:16*pm, Robert Chung <rech...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> You know as much about African agriculture as you do about economics.
> The fundamental problem with Africa's food production, especially in
> Sub-Saharan Africa, is poor soil fertility, exacerbated by climate
> patterns that aren't conducive to most of the modern high-yield crops.




Dumbass -


Political stability is a prerequisite to solving that problem, which
by the way is a problem they've always had.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

ST

On 6/28/08 6:03 PM, in article
f8f56a47-a775-4b27-a0f8-64eaf42f16d...ooglegroups.com, "Bill C"
<tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Jun 28, 7:56*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, the thing I don't get about this is that virtually every African
>> state that can't feed itself is that way due to something like civil
>> war, non-civil war, or being led by Robert Mugabe.
>>
>> Bad domestic policy has done far more to destroy African agriculture
>> than ethanol.
>>
>> --
>> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
>> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
>> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> That's something they don't want to talk about, and I got killed for
> bringing up with respect to the Eritrean/Ethiopian war. This has been
> a consideration that has been forcibly ignored for ages. Starving
> countries are fighting wars, and the only way their armies are able to
> stay in the field, and equipped is by international food aid, much of
> which has been sold off to buy ammunition and arms too. It happened
> with USAID and the VC, by the VC's own reports after the war. Giap
> stated that at times the only way they were able to keep fighting was
> by taking the aid from villages since they weren't getting enough
> through from China due to the interdiction of the supply system.
> Both Eritrea and Ethiopia have been found to be doing the same thing,
> except even worse because they are shipping it right back out in
> exchange for munitions while their people starve and it's ignored by
> the UN and world community for the most part. Food is used as a weapon
> quite naturally in most conflicts. Seige from ancient times on was
> based on starving the enemy into giving up. Why should that change for
> people at war? Treaties don't mean shit and noone but Europe, the US,
> Canada, and Israel is re4ally even held to any standards.
> Iran has signed every International treaty on protecting minors, and
> still continues to execute minors for homosexuality and other things
> regularly. I don't see any outcry to bring their leadership before the
> Hague. Same for Mugabe, Castro, etc...How many Khmer Rouge have
> actually been prosecuted? You can count them on fingers. One of the
> Hanoi Hilton folks who tortured McCain and others is getting play for
> endorsing McCain for Pres. No arrest warrant, no tough questions, just
> PR. I was watching closely to see if either Amnesty, or HRW would show
> any signs of outrage over the Taleban dragging those two folks out,
> and summarily executing them for supposedly spying in front of 5000
> cheering folks. Nowhere to be seen, but lots on Gitmo, again.
> Haven't seen any calls for the UN folks to be brought before the
> Hague for the rapes, human trafficking, etc...by their "peacekeepers".
> All I've seen is the UN claiming blanket immunity for any actions
> during UN missions, especially in respect to the massacres in the
> Balkans.
> So, YEP, biofuels are definitely the real problem Ryan, and you just
> need to be less informed, and inquisitive.
> I'm beginning to get the feeling that biofuels, in the world food
> debate are taking the place that guns have in the crime debate. Easy
> to point at some article while society, policy, and history are
> purposely ignored.
> Bill C

http://www.physorg.com/news4942.html

Producing ethanol and biodiesel from corn and other crops is not worth the
energy


General Science
Turning plants such as corn, soybeans and sunflowers into fuel uses much
more energy than the resulting ethanol or biodiesel generates, according to
a new Cornell University and University of California-Berkeley study.

ST

On 6/28/08 4:22 PM, in article fOSdnd2ygMlfWvvVnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@comcast.com,
"Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:

> ST wrote:
>> On 6/27/08 7:54 PM, in article C48AF5F6.57D2D%sdsteve@sbcglobal.net, "ST"
>> <sdsteve@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article QoudnenrRZakjPjVnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@comcast.com,
>>> "Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ST wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!
>>>>>
>>>>> HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels shit is gonna take all the corn
>>>>> the
>>>>> USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
>>>> Hasn't happened.
>>>>
>>>> Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
>>>> up with one that's demonstrably true.
>>>
>>> You are such a koolaid idiot............
>>>
>>> http://www.un.org/News/briefings/do...Ziegler.doc.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...tarving_people_
>>> are_a_crime.html
>>>
>>>
>>> U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
>>> Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation
>>>
>>
>> Here is another one from a PROGRESSIVE website!
>>
>> http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/29/8595/
>>
>> Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2008
>> by Environmental News Service
>>
>> UN: Biofuel Production ŒCriminal Path¹ to Global Food Crisis
>>
>
> The claim was that TK was right when he said that biofuels will starve
> millions.
>
> Will starve millions. Not 'Might starve millions, under certain
> conditions, if some set of bad decisions are made. Maybe. Perhaps.'
>
> You're such a candyass.

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/...based-biof.html

Corn-Based Biofuels Spell Death for Gulf of Mexico

ST

On 6/28/08 4:22 PM, in article fOSdnd2ygMlfWvvVnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@comcast.com,
"Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:

> ST wrote:
>> On 6/27/08 7:54 PM, in article C48AF5F6.57D2D%sdsteve@sbcglobal.net, "ST"
>> <sdsteve@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article QoudnenrRZakjPjVnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@comcast.com,
>>> "Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ST wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!
>>>>>
>>>>> HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels shit is gonna take all the corn
>>>>> the
>>>>> USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
>>>> Hasn't happened.
>>>>
>>>> Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
>>>> up with one that's demonstrably true.
>>>
>>> You are such a koolaid idiot............
>>>
>>> http://www.un.org/News/briefings/do...Ziegler.doc.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...tarving_people_
>>> are_a_crime.html
>>>
>>>
>>> U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
>>> Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation
>>>
>>
>> Here is another one from a PROGRESSIVE website!
>>
>> http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/29/8595/
>>
>> Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2008
>> by Environmental News Service
>>
>> UN: Biofuel Production ŒCriminal Path¹ to Global Food Crisis
>>
>
> The claim was that TK was right when he said that biofuels will starve
> millions.
>
> Will starve millions. Not 'Might starve millions, under certain
> conditions, if some set of bad decisions are made. Maybe. Perhaps.'
>
> You're such a candyass.

http://www.prlog.org/10055209-new-r...iofuel-producti
on-has-driven-milk-prices-up-in-china.html

New Report Says Corn Usage in Biofuel Production Has Driven Milk Prices Up
in China
Report Buyer, the online destination for business intelligence for major
industry sectors, has added a new report which finds that China’s dairy
industry is seeing rising milk prices as corn is increasingly being used in
the production of ethanol

Howard Kveck

In article <rcousine-8D3F3F.16563428062008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:

> > You seem to be saying that growers have a moral obligation to produce
> > food no matter the market forces involved. Why do you hate market
> > forces? How many children could be fed with the corn used to produce
> > the high fructose corn syrup that you consume Stevie?
>
> Well, the thing I don't get about this is that virtually every African
> state that can't feed itself is that way due to something like civil
> war, non-civil war, or being led by Robert Mugabe.
>
> Bad domestic policy has done far more to destroy African agriculture
> than ethanol.

There is another factor: people in those countries have imported corn and other
foodstuffs from the US because the price is lower than buying locally grown stuff.
The reason the price for US produced goods like these is because of subsidies the US
producers get. Local farmers can't afford to compete, hence they go under.

Secondly, when those countries get food aid from the US, they don't get money to
buy the goods they need because the rules are written such that they are required to
be given the goods rather than money. So this again helps US producers.

Drought has led to the destruction of a great deal of rice growing land and that
has had a catastrophic effect on the rice supply and, of course, the price has
skyrocketed.

Wars (civil or otherwise) and Mugabe have also had a large and unpleasant effect
on the growth and distribution of local (to Africa) food.

--
tanx,
Howard

The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

ST

On 6/28/08 4:22 PM, in article fOSdnd2ygMlfWvvVnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@comcast.com,
"Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:

> ST wrote:
>> On 6/27/08 7:54 PM, in article C48AF5F6.57D2D%sdsteve@sbcglobal.net, "ST"
>> <sdsteve@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article QoudnenrRZakjPjVnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@comcast.com,
>>> "Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ST wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!
>>>>>
>>>>> HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels shit is gonna take all the corn
>>>>> the
>>>>> USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
>>>> Hasn't happened.
>>>>
>>>> Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
>>>> up with one that's demonstrably true.
>>>
>>> You are such a koolaid idiot............
>>>
>>> http://www.un.org/News/briefings/do...Ziegler.doc.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...tarving_people_
>>> are_a_crime.html
>>>
>>>
>>> U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
>>> Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation
>>>
>>
>> Here is another one from a PROGRESSIVE website!
>>
>> http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/29/8595/
>>
>> Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2008
>> by Environmental News Service
>>
>> UN: Biofuel Production ŒCriminal Path¹ to Global Food Crisis
>>
>
> The claim was that TK was right when he said that biofuels will starve
> millions.
>
> Will starve millions. Not 'Might starve millions, under certain
> conditions, if some set of bad decisions are made. Maybe. Perhaps.'
>
> You're such a candyass.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6481029.stm

Biofuel demand makes food expensive

ST

On 6/28/08 4:22 PM, in article fOSdnd2ygMlfWvvVnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@comcast.com,
"Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:

> ST wrote:
>> On 6/27/08 7:54 PM, in article C48AF5F6.57D2D%sdsteve@sbcglobal.net, "ST"
>> <sdsteve@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article QoudnenrRZakjPjVnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@comcast.com,
>>> "Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ST wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!
>>>>>
>>>>> HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels shit is gonna take all the corn
>>>>> the
>>>>> USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
>>>> Hasn't happened.
>>>>
>>>> Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
>>>> up with one that's demonstrably true.
>>>
>>> You are such a koolaid idiot............
>>>
>>> http://www.un.org/News/briefings/do...Ziegler.doc.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...tarving_people_
>>> are_a_crime.html
>>>
>>>
>>> U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
>>> Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation
>>>
>>
>> Here is another one from a PROGRESSIVE website!
>>
>> http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/29/8595/
>>
>> Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2008
>> by Environmental News Service
>>
>> UN: Biofuel Production ŒCriminal Path¹ to Global Food Crisis
>>
>
> The claim was that TK was right when he said that biofuels will starve
> millions.
>
> Will starve millions. Not 'Might starve millions, under certain
> conditions, if some set of bad decisions are made. Maybe. Perhaps.'
>
> You're such a candyass.


Has Ethanol Led to a Boom or a Bust?

06/02/2008



The Institute for Policy Innovation’s Dr. Merrill Matthews says it depends
on whether you’re an environmentalist or one of the poor.

What if you bet everything on ethanol’s ability to save the environment and
ended up breaking the bank— the food bank, that is.

The environmentalists have pushed for years to decrease burning fossil fuels
like gasoline by substituting corn-based ethanol.

They won, and the rest of us lost—especially the poor.

The problem is that it takes about 1,700 gallons of water to make one gallon
of ethanol. And corn-based ethanol produces nearly twice the greenhouse
gases as gasoline.

And the ethanol boom has led to a corn boom. The increased demand for corn
has driven up the price, making it unaffordable for millions of poor people,
leading to riots around the world.

You might say we’re saving the environment while starving a child, only . .
.. we’re not saving the environment.

Howard Kveck

In article <44551410-236d-4c43-9d51-5bebd930a1d3@r37g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Bill C <tritonrider@verizon.net> wrote:

> We KNOW the UN and the world community would never make bad decisions,
> and Brazil is giving up biofuels.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic about the second part of that but if you
aren't, you're mistaken.

<http://www.usnews.com/articles/news...zil-biofuels-ar
e-not-a-problem.html>

--
tanx,
Howard

The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Howard Kveck

In article <YOURhoward-7F3BE6.18331228062008@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
Howard Kveck <YOURhoward@h-SHOESbomb.com> wrote:

> In article <rcousine-8D3F3F.16563428062008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > You seem to be saying that growers have a moral obligation to produce
> > > food no matter the market forces involved. Why do you hate market
> > > forces? How many children could be fed with the corn used to produce
> > > the high fructose corn syrup that you consume Stevie?
> >
> > Well, the thing I don't get about this is that virtually every African
> > state that can't feed itself is that way due to something like civil
> > war, non-civil war, or being led by Robert Mugabe.
> >
> > Bad domestic policy has done far more to destroy African agriculture
> > than ethanol.
>
> There is another factor: people in those countries have imported corn and
> other foodstuffs from the US because the price is lower than buying locally grown
> stuff. The reason the price for US produced goods like these is because of
> subsidies the US producers get. Local farmers can't afford to compete, hence they
> go under.
>
> Secondly, when those countries get food aid from the US, they don't get
> money to buy the goods they need because the rules are written such that they are
> required to be given the goods rather than money. So this again helps US producers.
>
> Drought has led to the destruction of a great deal of rice growing land
> and that has had a catastrophic effect on the rice supply and, of course, the price
> has skyrocketed.
>
> Wars (civil or otherwise) and Mugabe have also had a large and unpleasant
> effect on the growth and distribution of local (to Africa) food.

I hate to reply to my own post but I forgot to include the stuff that Robert did
in his post at 6:16 as additional factors into the food shortages in Africa.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....da3e0619327a780

--
tanx,
Howard

The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Robert Chung

On Jun 28, 6:27*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > You know as much about African agriculture as you do about economics.
> > The fundamental problem with Africa's food production, especially in
> > Sub-Saharan Africa, is poor soil fertility, exacerbated by climate
> > patterns that aren't conducive to most of the modern high-yield crops.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Political stability is a prerequisite to solving that problem, which
> by the way is a problem they've always had.

Which problem have they always had? Political instability or poor soil
fertility? In the tropical parts of Sub-Saharan Africa, it's certainly
true that poor soil fertility is innate -- but in other parts it's due
to depletion. And political stability isn't going to do much about the
climate patterns.

Fred Fredburger

ST wrote:
> On 6/28/08 4:17 PM, in article cYOdnZbPyq4bW_vVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com,
> "Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:
>
>> ST wrote:
>>> On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article QoudnenrRZakjPjVnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@comcast.com,
>>> "Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ST wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!
>>>>>
>>>>> HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels shit is gonna take all the corn
>>>>> the
>>>>> USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
>>>> Hasn't happened.
>>>>
>>>> Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
>>>> up with one that's demonstrably true.
>>>
>>> You are such a koolaid idiot............
>>>
>>> http://www.un.org/News/briefings/do...Ziegler.doc.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...tarving_people_
>>> are_a_crime.html
>>>
>>>
>>> U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
>>> Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation
>>>
>> You should read your own links.
>>
>> "Jean Ziegler, Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, reported that
>> biofuel could have a catastrophic negative impact on world hunger. "
>>
>> Do you know what the word "could" means? It's not the same thing as "did".
>>
>> I know, I'm being too subtle for you again.
>
> Keep on trying to weasle out assbag!
> This shit is all over the internet news!
>
> http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0806/S00413.htm
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...omment.biofuels
>
> The western appetite for biofuels is causing starvation in the poor world
>

Some things are not so simple as your spastic "evil progressive"
philosophy leads you to believe.

The second article on Swaziland is a case in point. They are converting
their already scarce crops to biofuels. The article says that it's
because they can export the biofuels for cold hard cash.

I suppose the profit motive is a socialist thing now too.

ST

On 6/28/08 7:02 PM, in article 8M2dncQqsfqtcPvVnZ2dnUVZ_q_inZ2d@comcast.com,
"Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:

> ST wrote:
>> On 6/28/08 4:17 PM, in article cYOdnZbPyq4bW_vVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@comcast.com,
>> "Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:
>>
>>> ST wrote:
>>>> On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article
>>>> QoudnenrRZakjPjVnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@comcast.com,
>>>> "Fred Fredburger" <FredFredburger@Where.Are.The.Nachos> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ST wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels shit is gonna take all the corn
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
>>>>> Hasn't happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
>>>>> up with one that's demonstrably true.
>>>>
>>>> You are such a koolaid idiot............
>>>>
>>>> http://www.un.org/News/briefings/do...Ziegler.doc.htm
>>>>
>>>>
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/430697/un_biofuels_starving_people>>>>
_
>>>> are_a_crime.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
>>>> Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation
>>>>
>>> You should read your own links.
>>>
>>> "Jean Ziegler, Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, reported that
>>> biofuel could have a catastrophic negative impact on world hunger. "
>>>
>>> Do you know what the word "could" means? It's not the same thing as "did".
>>>
>>> I know, I'm being too subtle for you again.
>>
>> Keep on trying to weasle out assbag!
>> This shit is all over the internet news!
>>
>> http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0806/S00413.htm
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...omment.biofuels
>>
>> The western appetite for biofuels is causing starvation in the poor world
>>
>
> Some things are not so simple as your spastic "evil progressive"
> philosophy leads you to believe.
>
> The second article on Swaziland is a case in point. They are converting
> their already scarce crops to biofuels. The article says that it's
> because they can export the biofuels for cold hard cash.
>
> I suppose the profit motive is a socialist thing now too.

Keep trying...
I do not need to keep siteing this stuff for you to weasel out! I will just
say "read the news!"

Kurgan Gringioni

On Jun 28, 6:57*pm, Robert Chung <rech...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 28, 6:27*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > You know as much about African agriculture as you do about economics.
> > > The fundamental problem with Africa's food production, especially in
> > > Sub-Saharan Africa, is poor soil fertility, exacerbated by climate
> > > patterns that aren't conducive to most of the modern high-yield crops..
>
> > Dumbass -
>
> > Political stability is a prerequisite to solving that problem, which
> > by the way is a problem they've always had.
>
> Which problem have they always had? Political instability or poor soil
> fertility? In the tropical parts of Sub-Saharan Africa, it's certainly
> true that poor soil fertility is innate -- but in other parts it's due
> to depletion. And political stability isn't going to do much about the
> climate patterns.



Dumbass -


Poor soil fertility. They've always had that.

As for depletion - political stability is necessary to solve that
problem. Without political stability, you dont' have literacy and
without literacy the government or others will be severly limited in
their ability to educate the farmers of what is causing the poor soil
quality and the steps they need to take to mitigate it.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Robert Chung

On Jun 28, 7:23*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 28, 6:57*pm, Robert Chung <rech...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 28, 6:27*pm, Kurgan Gringioni <kgringi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > You know as much about African agriculture as you do about economics.
> > > > The fundamental problem with Africa's food production, especially in
> > > > Sub-Saharan Africa, is poor soil fertility, exacerbated by climate
> > > > patterns that aren't conducive to most of the modern high-yield crops.
>
> > > Dumbass -
>
> > > Political stability is a prerequisite to solving that problem, which
> > > by the way is a problem they've always had.
>
> > Which problem have they always had? Political instability or poor soil
> > fertility? In the tropical parts of Sub-Saharan Africa, it's certainly
> > true that poor soil fertility is innate -- but in other parts it's due
> > to depletion. And political stability isn't going to do much about the
> > climate patterns.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Poor soil fertility. They've always had that.
>
> As for depletion - political stability is necessary to solve that
> problem. Without political stability, you dont' have literacy and
> without literacy the government or others will be severly limited in
> their ability to educate the farmers of what is causing the poor soil
> quality and the steps they need to take to mitigate it.
>
> thanks,
>
> K. Gringioni.

First you say they've always had poor soil fertility, then you say
it's because of depletion. Is this like one of those two mints, two
mints, two mints in one?

I claim that there are two different problems: in some areas, poor
soil fertility is innate. In others, poor soil fertility is the result
of depletion. Political stability or instability is not the cause of
innate soil infertility. Cousineau thinks that "bad domestic policy
has done far more to destroy African agriculture than ethanol." I
agree that political stability is necessary to deal effectively with
either problem, but I don't think "bad domestic policy" is identical
to political instability, nor do I believe that bad domestic policy
destroyed soil fertility in cases where it was innate.