Pics of Campa 11 speed

jim beam

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:PsydnZNXZqjaRcPVnZ2dnUVZ_v_inZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>
>> so tom, how many chains have you used in your "4000 miles" so far this
>> year? or don't you consume consumables and thus are insulated from
>> price rises? or does your mom buy them for you?
>
> Well, since I had over a dozen bikes for most of the year (been selling
> them off and am now down to a measly 10)

busted! you're greg lemond! did you make much profit ripping off trek?


> I've only had to replace two
> chains but then I don't keep real close track of all that sort of stuff
> like you do.
>
> Oh, wait, let me see - three carbon bikes, a titanium Merckx, an
> aluminum cross bike, five steel bikes, yeah ten bikes. But I don't ride
> the C40 a whole lot since I like to keep it pristine for special
> occasions. But the Time VX is nearly as good and rides better at slower
> speeds.
>
> What about you?
>

i don't ride a bike - my tentacles get tangled.

Carl Sundquist

"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rcousine-26EFE5.11392722062008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
>
> Tom: 9-speed shifters don't really cost any less to make, quality being
> equal, than 10-speed shifters. The other parts of the system are the
> derailers (which also don't cost any less to make, and are agnostic
> about how many cogs they shift, until the creation of the new-spec D-A
> cable pull for 2009), and the cassette, which is a wear item.
>
> So what happens is you bring your trashed Ultegra 9s brifters into the
> bike shop, and the wise proprietor will point out you just need to buy a
> new cassette (and your old one is half-worn anyways) and you're in the
> world of 10s.
>
> The number of people who in that circumstance would choose to stay with
> 9-speed is not a market. The real cheapskates just buy used 9s, which
> are cheap and plentiful.

Converting a single bike from 9 to 10 speed is not a big deal, but if you
have three or four bikes and alternate the wheelsets between them, then it
either becomes a PITA to swap cogs every time you switch rear wheels or
moderately expensive to convert all your bikes to 10 speed.

What is the cost of four sets of brifters, four 10s chains, and at least
four cogsets?

Tom Kunich

"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net> wrote in message
news:JMB7k.4663$3q7.1994@newsfe15.lga...
>
> Converting a single bike from 9 to 10 speed is not a big deal, but if you
> have three or four bikes and alternate the wheelsets between them, then it
> either becomes a PITA to swap cogs every time you switch rear wheels or
> moderately expensive to convert all your bikes to 10 speed.
>
> What is the cost of four sets of brifters, four 10s chains, and at least
> four cogsets?

What about the dozen or so road bikes I had for awhile? Yikes! Now I'm glad
that I've gotten over that and intend to reduce my bikes to a mere half
dozen. Four road bikes, a cyclocross bike and a touring bike. I don't think
I'll need any more than that.

Tom Kunich

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:LMCdnSHNrfCIdcPVnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>
> i don't ride a bike - my tentacles get tangled.

That's not in the least bit surprising.

jim beam

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:LMCdnSHNrfCIdcPVnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>
>> i don't ride a bike - my tentacles get tangled.
>
> That's not in the least bit surprising.
>

don't snip without annotation - usenet basic 101.

Tom Kunich

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:er6dnUojnJMvcsPVnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:LMCdnSHNrfCIdcPVnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>
>>> i don't ride a bike - my tentacles get tangled.
>>
>> That's not in the least bit surprising.
>
> don't snip without annotation - usenet basic 101.

What are you going to do about it? By the way - I'm 6'4" tall 185 lbs and
grew up as a white in west Oakland.

jim beam

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:er6dnUojnJMvcsPVnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:LMCdnSHNrfCIdcPVnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>>
>>>> i don't ride a bike - my tentacles get tangled.
>>>
>>> That's not in the least bit surprising.
>>
>> don't snip without annotation - usenet basic 101.
>
> What are you going to do about it? By the way - I'm 6'4" tall 185 lbs
> and grew up as a white in west Oakland.

er, that's oaktown - any local knows that. and besides, greg, i've met
you - you're not that big.

Michael Press

In article <485d7a8a$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
Morten Reippuert Knudsen <spam@reippuert.dk> wrote:

> On 2008-06-21 16:23:24 +0200, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> said:
>
> > We had reached the practical limit at 9 speeds. Of what use is more
> > than that unless you are in a peculiar terrain in the middle of an
> > important race?
>
> actaully, my ideal cassette would have 12 cogs:
> 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26-29
>
> I always seem to miss the 18t when riding 12-25
>
> When i'm in alpine terrain i switch to 13-29 in order to have an lower
> emergancy gear but then i miss my top gear on long decents while i
> still miss the 18t cog on flat roads where i usually ride 50/16, 50/17
> and 50/19.

How much do you miss the 18 and how much do you miss the 12?
Enough to install a third chain wheel and run a 12-23?
To get the 18 I run a nine speed 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23.

--
Michael Press

Ryan Cousineau

In article <JMB7k.4663$3q7.1994@newsfe15.lga>,
"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox.net> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:rcousine-26EFE5.11392722062008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
> >
> > Tom: 9-speed shifters don't really cost any less to make, quality being
> > equal, than 10-speed shifters. The other parts of the system are the
> > derailers (which also don't cost any less to make, and are agnostic
> > about how many cogs they shift, until the creation of the new-spec D-A
> > cable pull for 2009), and the cassette, which is a wear item.
> >
> > So what happens is you bring your trashed Ultegra 9s brifters into the
> > bike shop, and the wise proprietor will point out you just need to buy a
> > new cassette (and your old one is half-worn anyways) and you're in the
> > world of 10s.
> >
> > The number of people who in that circumstance would choose to stay with
> > 9-speed is not a market. The real cheapskates just buy used 9s, which
> > are cheap and plentiful.
>
> Converting a single bike from 9 to 10 speed is not a big deal, but if you
> have three or four bikes and alternate the wheelsets between them, then it
> either becomes a PITA to swap cogs every time you switch rear wheels or
> moderately expensive to convert all your bikes to 10 speed.
>
> What is the cost of four sets of brifters, four 10s chains, and at least
> four cogsets?

The intersection of the set of people with four 9-speed bikes and
limited means is, to be brief, me. And even I have only two 9-speed
bikes.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Ryan Cousineau

In article <ace2c$485d7b6c$22412@news.teranews.com>,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

> > Lou Holtman wrote:
> >> Also on this side of the pond SRAM is a non issue on road bikes, even on
> >> complete bikes.
>
> Derk wrote:
> > In Germany the big mail order companies offer SRAM groups on their bikes
> > (Rose, Canyon if I'm not mistaken).
>
> Hell, even we 'offer' them. Unlike mailorder outfits we have built
> ready-to-ride bikes. How are actual sales?

Is it really a shock that SRAM is small potatoes three years after they
started?

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Qui si parla Campagnolo

On Jun 22, 12:07*pm, oronk...@ling.helsinki.fi (A R:nen) wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo <pe...@vecchios.com> writes:
>
> > Pretty simple, Campagnolo stopped making Centaur with aluminum axle
> > and Chorus hubs in 2006. Hubset chopices for 2007/8 are the Black
> > Record, Centaur with cart bearings and steel axle(acxtually relabeled
> > Veloce hubs), Veloce...
>
> And Veloce was available in 2007 only. The hubs don't actually
> have the text "Veloce" anywhere on them, but 2008 Centaur (and Mirage)
> has the new design QR, so there is at least some way to tell them apart.
>
> I guess I'd better stock up a few Mirage rear hubs for utility and
> foul weather use before they are gone altogether. Also, shouldn't the
> "red" Record Ergos be available with substantial discounts pretty
> soon, what with all pro wannabes now just waiting for 11s?

QuickStep guy that was the Belgium national champ at tour of suisse
had 11s gruppo, btw.

M-gineering

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

>
> QuickStep guy that was the Belgium national champ at tour of suisse
> had 11s gruppo, btw.

typical, all those extra gears would have made more sense on the bike of
the poor guy finishing last

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Scott Gordo

On Jun 21, 8:07*am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <pe...@vecchios.com>
wrote:
> On Jun 20, 3:20*pm, Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 18, 4:48*am, Derk <nob...@invalid.org> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.guidorubino.com/technews...olo-2009-ergopo....
>
> > > Derk
>
> > I unfortunately don't have experience with modern brifter Campy, but
> > anyone else found 9 speed Shimano is reliable and easy to tune while
> > 10 speed is fiddly? It may be just my experience, and somebody
> > certainly was going to do it (and Campy has been overshadowed by SRAM
> > lately) but I'm not looking forward to skinnier, more expensive
> > chains.
>
> > Sure, I don't have to buy....
>
> As for Campagnolo being 'overshadowed' by Sram, I don't get this.
> Campagnolo does little to no OEM at any level, shimano does gobs. Many
> bikes that were spec'ed with shimano 105/ultegra/DA came out in 2008
> with Rival/Force/Red..who lost market share was shimano, not
> Campagnolo. In our little microcosm of a bike shop where we start with
> a frame, where we have all three shifter types on demo bikes, most
> still opt for Campagnolo(85%), followed by shimano, Zero so far for
> Sram this year.

I don't have bicycle retaler-type info, but by "overshadowed" I just
mean that, perception-wise, SRAM is seen as bold and new and exciting
while Campy is staid. Riders are excited to try the SRAM stuff, right?
I don't see how it's a better system, but that's not what I'm
questioning here. I'm talking about interest and hype and how they
likely correspond with sales.

In turn, I'm starting to see more and more bikes in the NYC area
outfitted with SRAM. Not saying it's better or worse, and maybe
they're taking some of Shimano's market too, but I would think that
since Campy sells less OEM (compared to Shimano) that they're probably
suffering more from SRAM's entries into the market. Plus, SRAM sells a
good deal of OEM MTB and department store Grip Shift stuff too, areas
where, for better or worse and AFAIK, Campy has no offerings.

The number of Campy bikes with, say, FSA cranks, can't be helping
either.

I'm not rooting against Campy by any means, just a few observations. I
suspect that they may have been anxious that SRAM might come out with
11 speed and reinforce my first point that Campy hasn't done anything
very exciting lately.

Lou Holtman

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Lou Holtman" <lholditniet@planet.nl> wrote in message
> news:485eb9ab$1_3@news4us.nl...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Duhhh - Sorry about that Martin, my brain apparently turned off - you
>>> say that the R600 is available in 9-speeds? Ahh, yes here it is - But
>>> a set of the levers is selling for the same thing as Ultegra - $320.
>>
>> Well at last. It comes down to money... How many brifters do you wear
>> out per year?
>
> Tell me Lou - why would you think that a bicycle shift/brake lever
> should cost a consumer over $200? Have you noticed that you can get a
> desktop computer for that much?
>
>


I don't know Tom. Who do you think is ripping you off at a price of
$320? Shimano, the distributor, the shop, the system? What do you think
is a reasonable price and why? Keep in mind that Shimano, Sram an Campy
are companies who try to make a profit. Blame the system? That's silly.
Probably the company you working for does the same thing.
Don't keep Campy or Shimano responsible for the fact that you think that
keeping your ridiculous amount of bikes up to date at a, what you think,
reasonable price.
Campy is trying to keep a unique selling point. For a while it was 10
speed, after that it was all that carbon stuff and now it's 11 speed,
because Shimano and Sram went also 10 speed and carbon. It's that
simple. Campy is not in a position to compete with Shimano price wise so
11 speed is a logical step. Is up to us if they succeed.

Lou