Wal-Mart sued for improperly assembled bicycle

Tom Kunich

"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:b0e06b29-9c3c-408f-88aa-30f6459a13a3@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 25, 9:34 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>
>> Now you're telling us where to buy coffee.
>
> Magilla would appreciate this place. http://www.gorillacoffee.com
> It's a block down from R&A Cycles in Brooklyn.

The real strange thing about all of these posts is that Magilla, Steve and
the rest are probably perfectly nice people in person. Put them on a
computer where they don't have direct contact with real people and their
minds seem to turn completely around.

Except for Jobst. In person he's exactly the same as on the net.

still just me

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:32:39 -0700, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.
com> wrote:

>You have a great imagination I'll grant you that. I ALSO don't know the
>woman's age but that doesn't change the fact that the dope spilled coffee on
>herself and a dopey jury awarded her a load of money for it and a subsequent
>court retracted the vast majority of that dumb award.

Note that the verdict was note reversed, the award was changed. You
might want to look into the legal differences as they are large.

>But then again, I was in a court in which a man who had (admitted) run a
>stop sign and been hit by someone DOING THE SPEED LIMIT claimed that speed
>limit or not the other person was going to fast for conditions as proved by
>the accident itself. Since the other person didn't have a lawyer there to
>advise him what a stupid claim that was the judge allowed it and found the
>person who ran the stop sign innocent and the man who hit him guilty.
>Meaning that court cases do not law prove.

Correct. No one is arguing that there aren't lots of frivolous cases.
However, the McDonalds Coffee lawsuit was not one of them.

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Jun 10, 12:16*pm, Eric Vey <jun...@ericvey.com> wrote:
> http://www.madisonrecord.com/news/2...-for-improperly...
>
> * . . .
> During Tony Willyard's first ride June 4, 2006, the handle bars
> "detached from the steering stem, causing Plaintiff to lose control of
> the bicycle, flip over the handle bars, and strike the ground, hitting
> his right shoulder on the curb, and causing Plaintiff severe and
> permanent injuries," the complaint states.
> * . . .

Dear Eric,

The thread long since abandoned bicycles for coffee, so this is just
the easiest place to hang a general comment.

Lots of vague claims have been made about coffee temperatures, but we
can get considerably better precision without Power Tap prices.

I don't drink coffee, but RBT enthusiasts might have fun finding out
how hot the java really is in their cup with this cheap toy:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=93983

The advantage over a normal thermometer, apart from absurd precision,
is that you don't have to stick a probe into your coffee and can
politely check every cup on the table.

Works on tea, too, another beverage that I wouldn't drink as long as
water was available.

My remote thermometer shows that that the outside of my double-wall
insulated coke glass is about 68.7F, but the coke inside is about
42.1F (point it at the ice cubes and the reading changes).

On a faintly related note, you can get a nice low-range digital scale
for the same ~$12 from the same place:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=93543

Set it down, zero it, pick it up, walk around, and watch a poor man's
accelerometer measuring vibration in real time.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Michael Press

In article
<59bf51d2-d3b1-4bc7-af27-d6d30154b93b@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote:

> On Jun 25, 4:15 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > Do you know that the concrete pour of Boulder dam required cooling pipes
> > inside the pour, else the time required to dissipate the heat of
> > the hydration of the portland cement would be ~200 years?
>
> Not quite accurate. The concrete would be fried and it would lose
> almost all of its strength - it would never last 200 years. The dam
> would blow out as a vertical pile of sand and pebbles makes a piss
> poor dam.

Nothing I said is inaccurate. Bitch me out for incompleteness if you must.
If cooling was the only problem, they would not have put in
the cooling pipes would they? They had to wait until the
concrete cooled and cured before back filling with water.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press

In article
<95649340-0659-4590-a308-0a98dfc4f6f8@u12g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Jay Beattie <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com> wrote:

> On Jun 25, 1:15*am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article <1Hj8k.14483$Ri.2...@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > > Michael Press wrote:
> > > > In article <EJ88k.14287$Ri.4...@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> > > > *SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> Michael Press wrote:
> > > >>> In article <WgY7k.11144$uE5.6...@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> > > >>> *SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >>>> Jay Beattie wrote:
> >
> > > >>>>> Apparently it is -- and the perfect serving temperature is around 175
> > > >>>>> degrees according to the coffee afficianados. From what I read on the
> > > >>>>> internet about the McDonalds case, the local take out joints were
> > > >>>>> serving their coffee about 20 degrees below McDonald's -- but there
> > > >>>>> were also customers who bought McDonald's coffee specifically because
> > > >>>>> it was really hot. McDonald's market niche was really hot coffee.
> > > >>>> By the time the water goes through the filter and drips into the pot it
> > > >>>> is much lower than boiling temperature. To serve it at 180 degrees it
> > > >>>> would have to be intentionally heated back up to a higher temperature.
> > > >>> In your home. I participated in large scale coffee operations.
> > > >>> Five gallons of boiling water (heated from a 1 inch steam pipe)
> > > >>> dumped over a muslin filter of coffee remains very hot indeed.
> > > >> By the time it drips into an uninsulated carafe, and is transported to
> > > >> the table, and poured, it has cooled considerably. What happened at
> > > >> McDonald's is that they kept the holding temperature up by heating the
> > > >> brewed coffee, a common practice in low-end restaurants.
> >
> > > > What you describe here is not what I did.
> > > > The coffee I brewed was HOT without reheating.
> >
> > > The temperature of coffee falls rapidly between the boiling water poured
> > > over the ground coffee and the holding vessel if the vessel isn't
> > > insulated. By the time 212 degree water goes through the filter into the
> > > vessel it will have fallen to less than 195 degrees, and 20 minutes
> > > later it'll be under 180.
> >
> > In your home. Scale changes things. Your categorical statement is false.
> > Do you know that the concrete pour of Boulder dam required cooling pipes
> > inside the pour, else the time required to dissipate the heat of
> > the hydration of the portland cement would be ~200 years?
>
> Interesting point, but the bottom line is what a reasonable consumer
> of coffee expects to get in the cup. The jury was probably given an
> instruction to the effect that the cup of coffee was defective if they
> found that it was dangerous to an exent beyond that contemplated by
> the ordiniary consumer of coffee. The jury could conclude that the cup
> of coffee was defective because the coffee was too hot (as evidenced
> by the average temperature of other take out coffee in the area -- or
> even home pots), because the cup was not rigid enough, because the lid
> was not secure -- who knows. The verdict may not have been based on
> the temperature of the coffee alone.
>
> If a properly designed and manufactured cup of coffee is capable of
> causing harm if used in a foreseeable manner, then there is a duty to
> warn -- assuming it is possible to have a sufficient warning being
> that people don't generally read their cups. McDonalds probably
> concluded that a warning was not feasible, and it simply turned down
> the thermostat on its coffee makers. So, the average consumer now
> gets what he or she expects -- average hot coffee. That is certainly
> a bummer for the hot coffee set -- and illustrate the unfortunate
> leveling effect of the product liability law.
>
> Also note that in "consumer expectation" states like Oregon, there is
> no strict liability for obviously dangerous products. A consumer does
> not expect that a whirling, unguarded blade will be safe -- so prop-
> strike cases are hard to prove. I actually represented a number of
> distilled spirits/beer brewers in a case brought by a prison inmate
> who claimed his life was ruined by alcohol. No liability. Everyone
> knows that well-made booze can ruin your life. Some states (like
> California) use a "risk-utility" test, and the outcome can be
> different under that test where the product is obviously danagerous
> and has a low utility.
>
> Now, plaintiffs can always pursue straight negligence claims (and not
> strict products liability), but those are hard to prove because, for
> example, a reasonable coffee seller may choose to sell really hot
> coffee because it appeals to a certain market -- or because the
> aromatics are released above 175 degrees or for some other good
> reason. On the other hand, the evidence may be that no fool in his or
> her right mind would sell 180 degree coffee in a paper cup. This is
> where experts come in (among other places). God knows what the
> evidence was in the McDonalds case. There was certainly enough
> evidence to get the case to the jury (or else the trial judge would
> have granted a directed verdict). Once it gets to the jury, they do
> what they do -- usually based on the law, but sometimes based on a lot
> of other things.

Jay, what is a directed verdict? Once a case is begun in front of
a jury, what circumstances allow for it to be taken out of their hands.
If I go through the whole jury selection process and the evidence
is being presented, I may be very disappointed if it is taken
out of my hands, and a verdict brought that I disagree with.

--
Michael Press

RicodJour

On Jun 25, 5:45 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 25, 4:15 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > > Do you know that the concrete pour of Boulder dam required cooling pipes
> > > inside the pour, else the time required to dissipate the heat of
> > > the hydration of the portland cement would be ~200 years?
>
> > Not quite accurate. The concrete would be fried and it would lose
> > almost all of its strength - it would never last 200 years. The dam
> > would blow out as a vertical pile of sand and pebbles makes a piss
> > poor dam.
>
> Nothing I said is inaccurate. Bitch me out for incompleteness if you must.

Ragging on someone has no rules. It's the only thing that makes it
bearable and not a chore.

> If cooling was the only problem, they would not have put in
> the cooling pipes would they?

Uhhh....what? I think there's something missing there.

> They had to wait until the
> concrete cooled and cured before back filling with water.

I see. I was not aware that you believed waiting a couple of hundred
years for something to cure was an option. ~

If it makes you feel any better, my use of the word accurate was
imprecise. ~(: (That's me sticking my tongue out at myself.)

R

Frank Krygowski

On Jun 25, 5:42 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> I don't drink coffee, but RBT enthusiasts might have fun finding out
> how hot the java really is in their cup with this cheap toy:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=93983
>
> The advantage over a normal thermometer, apart from absurd precision,
> is that you don't have to stick a probe into your coffee and can
> politely check every cup on the table.

I've had one of those for about a year. Pretty interesting. It works
well, although (not surprisingly) it has no correction for surface
emissivity - which is no big deal at that price.

Naturally, Safe Coffee Drinkers Inc. is lobbying to make those units
mandatory for everyone drinking coffee. And of course, Harbor Freight
conscientiously helps to fund this fine "safety" effort promoted by
Safe Coffee Drinkers, Inc. But that has nothing to do with their
business interest! They do it only out of the goodness of their
heart!

;-)

- Frank Krygowski

Michael Press

In article
<54524cb0-2a11-4283-b42d-a20c7ee87178@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>,
RicodJour <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote:

> On Jun 25, 5:45 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
> > > On Jun 25, 4:15 am, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > Do you know that the concrete pour of Boulder dam required cooling pipes
> > > > inside the pour, else the time required to dissipate the heat of
> > > > the hydration of the portland cement would be ~200 years?
> >
> > > Not quite accurate. The concrete would be fried and it would lose
> > > almost all of its strength - it would never last 200 years. The dam
> > > would blow out as a vertical pile of sand and pebbles makes a piss
> > > poor dam.
> >
> > Nothing I said is inaccurate. Bitch me out for incompleteness if you must.
>
> Ragging on someone has no rules. It's the only thing that makes it
> bearable and not a chore.
>
> > If cooling was the only problem, they would not have put in
> > the cooling pipes would they?
>
> Uhhh....what? I think there's something missing there.

Plenty.

> > They had to wait until the
> > concrete cooled and cured before back filling with water.
>
> I see. I was not aware that you believed waiting a couple of hundred
> years for something to cure was an option. ~

Are you now?
The reason I brought in Boulder dam was to illustrate the
effect of scale on rate of cooling. Not to learnedly discuss
the factors affecting strength of concrete made with portland
cement.

> If it makes you feel any better, my use of the word accurate was
> imprecise. ~(: (That's me sticking my tongue out at myself.)

I'm feeling pretty good. The drugs kicked in.

--
Michael Press

still just me

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:50:19 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
wrote:

>Are you now?
>The reason I brought in Boulder dam was to illustrate the
>effect of scale on rate of cooling. Not to learnedly discuss
>the factors affecting strength of concrete made with portland
>cement.

FYI - it's still curing

still just me

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:09:06 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
wrote:

>Jay, what is a directed verdict? Once a case is begun in front of
>a jury, what circumstances allow for it to be taken out of their hands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed_verdict

Note that if a Judge doesn't like you or your case, but he can't
justify a directed verdict, he will just attempt to influence the case
in the direction he wants it to go by pushing his rulings as far as he
can to favor one side over the other, instructing the jury in a way
that influences them, picking a jury foreman who is most likely to go
his way, and, when it appears to suit his purpose, waving "end of the
deliberations you get to go home" to the jury as obviously as he can.

>If I go through the whole jury selection process and the evidence
>is being presented, I may be very disappointed if it is taken
>out of my hands, and a verdict brought that I disagree with.

Your disappointment is not of any concern to the court :-)

Michael Press

In article <ill564dbmrpkk4r1vkfhdfkuepa1a8ctnm@4ax.com>,
still just me <wheeledBobNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:50:19 -0700, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Are you now?
> >The reason I brought in Boulder dam was to illustrate the
> >effect of scale on rate of cooling. Not to learnedly discuss
> >the factors affecting strength of concrete made with portland
> >cement.
>
> FYI - it's still curing

Thanks. Presumably to a large degree.
Small pours continue to cure for decades,
as is evident when you break up older and newer pours.

--
Michael Press

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:44:21 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jun 25, 5:42 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't drink coffee, but RBT enthusiasts might have fun finding out
>> how hot the java really is in their cup with this cheap toy:
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=93983
>>
>> The advantage over a normal thermometer, apart from absurd precision,
>> is that you don't have to stick a probe into your coffee and can
>> politely check every cup on the table.
>
>I've had one of those for about a year. Pretty interesting. It works
>well, although (not surprisingly) it has no correction for surface
>emissivity - which is no big deal at that price.
>
>Naturally, Safe Coffee Drinkers Inc. is lobbying to make those units
>mandatory for everyone drinking coffee. And of course, Harbor Freight
>conscientiously helps to fund this fine "safety" effort promoted by
>Safe Coffee Drinkers, Inc. But that has nothing to do with their
>business interest! They do it only out of the goodness of their
>heart!
>
>;-)
>
>- Frank Krygowski

Dear Frank,

The manual states "NOT FOR MEDICAL OR FOOD SAFETY USE" right at the
beginning for the benefit of anyone rendered smug by excessive
caffeine ingest--

Er, never mind. Test some tea or coffee for us.

:-)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

A Muzi

> "Jay Beattie" <jbeattie@lindsayhart.com> wrote
>> So, the average consumer now gets what he or she expects
>> -- average hot coffee.

Tom Kunich wrote:
> Sorry but most places now serve coffee barely warm. This is the result
> of that case. Then you go into small single owner coffee shops and the
> coffee is real temperature and you need to let it cool for 10 minutes
> before you can sip it.

huh. The things you learn on r.b.t.

My espresso is made with live steam into a little LavAzza china
demitasse and is quite drinkable right away. Just walking 50m in a paper
'togo' cup, it's pathetically tepid.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Frank Krygowski

On Jun 25, 9:55 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > "Jay Beattie" <jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote
> >> So, the average consumer now gets what he or she expects
> >> -- average hot coffee.
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > Sorry but most places now serve coffee barely warm. This is the result
> > of that case. Then you go into small single owner coffee shops and the
> > coffee is real temperature and you need to let it cool for 10 minutes
> > before you can sip it.
>
> huh. The things you learn on r.b.t.
>
> My espresso is made with live steam into a little LavAzza china
> demitasse and is quite drinkable right away. Just walking 50m in a paper
> 'togo' cup, it's pathetically tepid.

But it's safe! ;-)

- Frank Krygowski