Cycling to the gym is a "stroke of genius"

Danny Colyer

On 18/06/2008 20:29, Tom Crispin wrote:
> Should I stop carrying my driving licence around with me in case it
> encourages the government to make the carrying of personal ID
> compulsory?

If that seemed a likely outcome of carrying a driving licence then I
would suggest that it would make sense to stop carrying it. I'm not
aware of any government agency keeping a count of what proportion of the
population carries a driving licence with them, though.

--
Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"The plural of anecdote is not data" - Frank Kotsonis

Rob Morley

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:24:23 +0100
Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:

> Tom Crispin wrote:
>
> > Should I stop carrying my driving licence around with me in case it
> > encourages the government to make the carrying of personal ID
> > compulsory?
>
> Unless you go around with your license taped to your head in a very
> prominent manner it's impossible to tell whether you have it with you
> or not.
>
I imagine records for police stops show the proportion of people
carrying a license presented as ID or proof of entitlement.

Peter Clinch

Rob Morley wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:24:23 +0100
> Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> Tom Crispin wrote:
>>
>>> Should I stop carrying my driving licence around with me in case it
>>> encourages the government to make the carrying of personal ID
>>> compulsory?
>> Unless you go around with your license taped to your head in a very
>> prominent manner it's impossible to tell whether you have it with you
>> or not.
>>
> I imagine records for police stops show the proportion of people
> carrying a license presented as ID or proof of entitlement.

And would the number of police stops be considerably fewer than the
number of people you simply /see/ while out on the roads? I think so...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Rob Morley

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:31:31 +0100
Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:

> Rob Morley wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:24:23 +0100
> > Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Tom Crispin wrote:
> >>
> >>> Should I stop carrying my driving licence around with me in case
> >>> it encourages the government to make the carrying of personal ID
> >>> compulsory?
> >> Unless you go around with your license taped to your head in a very
> >> prominent manner it's impossible to tell whether you have it with
> >> you or not.
> >>
> > I imagine records for police stops show the proportion of people
> > carrying a license presented as ID or proof of entitlement.
>
> And would the number of police stops be considerably fewer than the
> number of people you simply /see/ while out on the roads? I think
> so...
>
There aren't license-carrying statistics for people who aren't
stopped. There probably are statistics for those who are stopped.
Which statistics will the authorities pay attention to, the ones that
don't exist or the ones that do?

Peter Clinch

Rob Morley wrote:

> There aren't license-carrying statistics for people who aren't
> stopped. There probably are statistics for those who are stopped.
> Which statistics will the authorities pay attention to, the ones that
> don't exist or the ones that do?

So we can conclude from the results of all breathalyser tests that there
are far more pissed people on the roads than there actually are? Well,
no, not really, and indeed we don't.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

_

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:18:32 +0100, Rob Morley wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:31:31 +0100
> Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> Rob Morley wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 09:24:23 +0100
>>> Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom Crispin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Should I stop carrying my driving licence around with me in case
>>>>> it encourages the government to make the carrying of personal ID
>>>>> compulsory?
>>>> Unless you go around with your license taped to your head in a very
>>>> prominent manner it's impossible to tell whether you have it with
>>>> you or not.
>>>>
>>> I imagine records for police stops show the proportion of people
>>> carrying a license presented as ID or proof of entitlement.
>>
>> And would the number of police stops be considerably fewer than the
>> number of people you simply /see/ while out on the roads? I think
>> so...
>>
> There aren't license-carrying statistics for people who aren't
> stopped. There probably are statistics for those who are stopped.
> Which statistics will the authorities pay attention to, the ones that
> don't exist or the ones that do?

Worryingly in the case of MFH's, it may well be the ones that don't.

As those that show (validly) a positive effect from wearing them.

Rob Morley

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:44:02 +0100
Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:

> Rob Morley wrote:
>
> > There aren't license-carrying statistics for people who aren't
> > stopped. There probably are statistics for those who are stopped.
> > Which statistics will the authorities pay attention to, the ones
> > that don't exist or the ones that do?
>
> So we can conclude from the results of all breathalyser tests that
> there are far more pissed people on the roads than there actually
> are? Well, no, not really, and indeed we don't.
>
Because chances are someone who gets breathalysed is acting drunk,
smells of alcohol, has had an accident, so obviously drunks are well
represented in the sample. OTOH those who carry a valid license at all
times are probably under-represented in the police stop sample (with
the possible exception of people who look underage and frequently
need to produce proof of age/entitlement).

Peter Clinch

Rob Morley wrote:

> Because chances are someone who gets breathalysed is acting drunk,
> smells of alcohol, has had an accident, so obviously drunks are well
> represented in the sample. OTOH those who carry a valid license at all
> times are probably under-represented in the police stop sample (with
> the possible exception of people who look underage and frequently
> need to produce proof of age/entitlement).

The point of comparison to pressure to wear helmets when it's obvious to
anyone you're not wearing one being...?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Rob Morley

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:22:57 +0100
Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:

> Rob Morley wrote:
>
> > Because chances are someone who gets breathalysed is acting drunk,
> > smells of alcohol, has had an accident, so obviously drunks are well
> > represented in the sample. OTOH those who carry a valid license at
> > all times are probably under-represented in the police stop sample
> > (with the possible exception of people who look underage and
> > frequently need to produce proof of age/entitlement).
>
> The point of comparison to pressure to wear helmets when it's obvious
> to anyone you're not wearing one being...?
>
None at all - the question addressed in this bit of the thread was
//
Should I stop carrying my driving licence around with me in case it
encourages the government to make the carrying of personal ID
compulsory?
//

Citizen Jimserac

On Jun 17, 4:23 am, Mark McNeill

> That's just bias confirmation, just as we see with homeopathy, psychics,
> etc; *many* more people are likely to see a benefit in something they've
> invested money and belief in.

Pardon me, I don't know about psychics but I
DO know that despite the determined
efforts of the Lancet and the "Guardian"
Homeopathy has overwhelmingly proved
its efficacy for a variety of illnesses.

May I suggest you view a REAL overview of
Homeopathy by a REAL scientist at this link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wYO6nNQGe1M

A full list of PEER REVIEWED papers supporting her research
can be found at:

http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy....ticles/view,173

And, for those who find, as I did, the idea
that a substance can still have action despite
being diluted passed the Avogadro limit
(no more atoms of the substance left) rather
curious, I will reference the following, to show
that REAL scientific research is closing in on
that mechanism of action too:

try reading the water research papers at:
www.rustumroy.com

and...

Read This:
Physica A: Statistical Mechanics and its Applications
Volume 323, 15 May 2003, Pages 67-74

Thermoluminescence of ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and
sodium chloride

Louis Rey
Received 10 December 2002.
Available online 28 February 2003.

"Ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and
sodium chloride (10-30 gcm-3) have been
irradiated by X- and ã-rays at 77 K, then
progressively rewarmed to room temperature.
During that phase, their thermoluminescence
has been studied and it was found that,
despite their dilution beyond the Avogadro
number, the emitted light was specific of
the original salts dissolved initially."

Conclusion repeated for emphasis:

"IT WAS FOUND THAT DESPITE THEIR DILUTION
BEYOND THE AVOGADRO NUMBER, THE EMITTED
LIGHT WAS SPECIFIC OF THE ORIGINAL SALTS
DISOLVED INITIALLY".

Citizen Jimserac

Chris Malcolm

Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
> John Kane wrote:

>> Sorry Tom I misread your intend. I don't know of any population
>> studies without the impetus of a mandatory helmet law. I have seen
>> maybe one small study where the accident rate for helmet wearers was
>> higher but the n-size was small.

> Hewson's 2005 work was based on the UK STATS 19 figures and looked at
> changing helmet rates and how thy might be in any way correlated with
> serious injury rates. No correlation (either way) stood out.

> IIRC in one of the pieces, looking particularly at children, it was
> noted how girls wore helmets twice as much but managed the same serious
> head injury rates.

That sounds rather bad. I'd expect girls to have fewer serious
accidents than boys because generally speaking in physical activities
they're less daredevil and reckless. Is their extra helmet wearing
raising their head injury rates up to those of boys?

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]