Before We See a Bike Friendly World

ComandanteBanana

On Jun 10, 8:49*am, Tadej Brezina <tadej_use...@gmx.at> wrote:
> George Conklin schrieb:
>
> > "ComandanteBanana" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:4645c510-69ea-4097-93ef-68d02ec25dde@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
> >> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
> >> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
>
> > * *Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
> > "European style" cities.
>
> Where else do WE Europeans live? Come on tell it to me over the big pond!

I think he means there are lot of foreigners there.

ComandanteBanana

On Jun 10, 8:52*am, Tadej Brezina <tadej_use...@gmx.at> wrote:
> George Conklin schrieb:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> >news:timmcn-C116B6.23492309062008@news.iphouse.com...
> >> In article <n6WdnXRM2u2_DdDVnZ2dnUVZ_jqdn...@earthlink.com>,
> >> *"George Conklin" <n...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>> "ComandanteBanana" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:4645c510-69ea-4097-93ef-68d02ec25dde@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com
> >>> ...
> >>>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
> >>>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
> >>>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
>
> >>> *Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
> >>> "European style" cities.
> >> What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." *Still are, for
> >> that matter.
>
> > * *The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
> > of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
> > pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. *The summer I
> > lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
> > fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
> > city. *The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.
>
> It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
> in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
> very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
> continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
>
> True, Europe isn't perfect either.

One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
the SUV to impress the neighbors...

How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
still too many.

ComandanteBanana

On Jun 10, 12:48*am, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> In article
> <4645c510-69ea-4097-93ef-68d02ec25...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> *ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
> > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
> > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
>
> You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?

Urban sprawl IS American utopianism.

Maybe you are right.

ComandanteBanana

On Jun 10, 6:30 am, CJ <chris.ju...@ctc.org.uk> wrote:
> On 9 Jun, 21:16, "George Conklin" <n...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > "ComandanteBanana" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:4645c510-69ea-4097-93ef-68d02ec25dde@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
> > > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
> > > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
>
> > Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
> > "European style" cities.
>
> It's true, there are also rather a lot of sprawling "American style"
> developments in Europe, but the kind of urban environment he's talking
> about is sufficiently common in most European countries for that to be
> a useful label.
>
> The interesting question is how will one transform into the other.

Some kind of major change must occur for it to happen. McCain is
business as usual, and Obama more of the same. Still, the former is a
"liberal" and the latter a "socialist" to the American Christian
voter ... So any European leader would be a "communist"...

'HOLD MY NOSE'

Dan Yoder, the pastor of a small country church in Springfield,
Tennessee, said, "I'm going to have to hold my nose while I vote for
McCain ... but Obama's a die-hard socialist."

Obama, a senator from Illinois who would be America's first black
president, is right off the scale for many conservative evangelicals
because of his liberal voting record, his opposition to the Iraq war
and his support for abortion rights.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080610...tists_mccain_dc

comandante.banana@yahoo.com

See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
happen before we a Bike Friendly World...

To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
transportation as well.

This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
excluding the war in Iraq...

"One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pb.../NEWS/806080327

ComandanteBanana

On Jun 10, 6:53*am, "George Conklin" <n...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> * *The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
> of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
> pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. *The summer I
> lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
> fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
> city. *The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.-

But unlike American cities, Paris and other European cities are
becoming bike friendly places...

(But perhaps all we need is some "visionary mayor" or a "public
transportation strike." I'll take note about them in the list of
things that must happen. Why things like that don't happen over here?)

Budapest looks to Paris as it launches new cycling program
May 25, 2008

BUDAPEST (AFP) — Budapest city hall is slowly embracing the idea
already grasped by some commuters: that there is a two-wheel solution
to the city's traffic problems and the resultant soaring levels of
pollution.

In Paris, it took a devoted mayor and a month-long public transport
strike to turn bicycles into an attractive option for local people.

In Budapest, the starring role has gone to Deputy Mayor Miklos Hagyo:
a corpulent figure, he is perhaps unlikely poster boy.

But sporadic strike action over several months by the Hungarian public
transport unions has helped to press home the urgency of the problem.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM...AJX5rf1ezLso80w

ComandanteBanana

OK, going back to the subject of visionary mayor...

Originally Posted by John E
"My solution to the problem is to preserve our mid-density single
family neighborhoods (mine is built at a quite livable 6.5 units /
acre), but to redevelop our sprawling one- and two-story business
parks into three-story mixed-use nodes, with commerce (retail,
restaurants, etc.) on the bottom, office/professional in the middle,
and penthouse apartments on the top."

Nobody thought of calling the demolition squads to the suburbs, so
here is a better idea...

Public transportation shuttles bikes to the outskirts, and from there
people take off on the bike. Similar to Curitiba model, in which of a
web of roads spread out from the city center, but with accomodation
for bikes. The best bikes for that are the foldable, which can be
taken inside the bus.

Then all we need is a visionary mayor like that of Curitiba, something
hard to find around here.

Curitiba and its visionary mayor
Residents of Curitiba, Brazil, think they live in the best city in the
world, and a lot of outsiders agree. Curibita has 17 new parks, 90
miles of bike paths, trees everywhere, and traffic and garbage systems
that officials from other cities come to study. Curibita's mayor for
twelve years, Jaime Lerner, has a 92 per cent approval rating.

(many good ideas here, for mayors and non-mayors alike) !!!

http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/...hp?ideaId=2236

ComandanteBanana

Originally Posted by genec
'The bottom line is that people don't "live" in Europe, they live in
Spain or France or Germany, etc. and within those countries they live
in states, and within those states they live in cities or towns or
villages... just as we live within states, and cities, and within
those cities there are usually districts... the bottom line is that
we, both Europeans and us, live in small subdivided areas that can be
quite bike friendly or quite the opposite... depending on the policies
and designs of the larger governing bodies. All of Europe for instance
is not bike friendly, but the areas that are can be somewhat
replicated here... one thing that is decidedly not bike friendly are
newer developments that have high speed arterial roads branching off
into isolated gated subsections. That is a decidedly American
development that tends to also isolate neighborhoods.

Certain neighborhoods here in America have been decidedly designed
around the auto, and that sort of design often is not bike friendly.
That can be changed. And it will have to be changed before we see a
bike friendly America.'


Amen!

But just a note: usually Europe is either friendly to bikes (Northern
Europe) or public transporation (Southern Europe), and some areas are
both (again, Northern Europe).

Few developments there place you in the middle of nowhere with no
means to get out, other than by SUV. That's the American way...

Amy Blankenship

<comandante.banana@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> transportation as well.
>
> This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

At the same time?

RicodJour

On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"
<Amy_nos...@magnoliamultimedia.com> wrote:
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> > transportation as well.
>
> > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> > excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>
> At the same time?

What? You never heard of multitasking?

BTW, Amy, your name came up over in alt.architecture.

R

Amy Blankenship

"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:affe6d17-530a-44e8-a4e4-fefdcf199a59@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"
> <Amy_nos...@magnoliamultimedia.com> wrote:
>> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
>> > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>>
>> > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
>> > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
>> > transportation as well.
>>
>> > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
>> > excluding the war in Iraq...
>>
>> > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
>> > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>>
>> At the same time?
>
> What? You never heard of multitasking?
>
> BTW, Amy, your name came up over in alt.architecture.

Sorry...it slipped.

ComandanteBanana

On Jun 10, 11:48*am, "Amy Blankenship"
<Amy_nos...@magnoliamultimedia.com> wrote:
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> > transportation as well.
>
> > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> > excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>
> At the same time?

There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.

Amy Blankenship

"ComandanteBanana" <nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:201f894b-e589-4592-92d5-458fee264fb3@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"
<Amy_nos...@magnoliamultimedia.com> wrote:
> <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> > transportation as well.
>
> > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> > excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>
> At the same time?

There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.
----------------

How do you keep your foot on the accelerator of an electric car while
pedaling a bicycle?

Just wondering...

ComandanteBanana

On Jun 10, 5:35*pm, "Amy Blankenship"
<Amy_nos...@magnoliamultimedia.com> wrote:
> "ComandanteBanana" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:201f894b-e589-4592-92d5-458fee264fb3@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"
>
>
>
>
>
> <Amy_nos...@magnoliamultimedia.com> wrote:
> > <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> > > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> > > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> > > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> > > transportation as well.
>
> > > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> > > excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> > > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> > > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>
> > At the same time?
>
> There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
> happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
> bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
> are free down there.
> ----------------
>
> How do you keep your foot on the accelerator of an electric car while
> pedaling a bicycle?
>
> Just wondering...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Here's the solution to the dilemma...

http://nycewheels.com/ezee-quando-e...lding-bike.html

They are EVs and bike at the same time.