The Starbucks in Sausalito is no longer that scary-sounding.

Paul G.

On Jun 10, 1:04 am, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Paul G. wrote:
> > Hell yeah. Even "grandma gun nut" knows safety is for wusses:
>
> > "Girl shoots herself with grandma's gun at SC store
>
> > COLUMBIA, S.C. - A 4-year-old girl shot herself in the chest Monday after
> > snatching her grandmother's handgun from the woman's purse while riding in
> > a shopping cart at a Sam's Club store, authorities said.
>
> At least she didn't have an Uzi in her purse.

Grandma strikes me as more of a Mac-10 type, someone who can
appreciate a made-in-America firearm with a higher rate of fire and
lower accuracy, which fires the good old fashioned .45ACP. But the
main problem with either the Uzi or Mac-10 is they are a bit heavy for
your 4 year old grandchild to wield while exercising her 2nd Amendment
rights.
-Paul

Paul G.

On Jun 10, 8:12 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
> (quoting):
> Today, of course, we have modern revolvers with frontier styling that
> can be fully loaded with a live round under the hammer, in perfect
> safety. This is because an updated mechanism, usually involving a
> transfer bar, requires a pull of the trigger to fire the gun.
>

All good, but if you've got a loose nut -or a loose cannon- BLAM!
Attempting to foolproof guns underestimates the creativity of fools:

Pilot's gun blasted small hole through cockpit wall of US Airways
plane

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — Photos show that a shot fired from a US Airways
pilot's pistol blasted a small hole through the cockpit wall of a
plane that landed in North Carolina. The photos obtained today by The
Associated Press show a small entry hole in the lower side of the
cockpit wall and a small exit hole on the exterior below the cockpit
window. Airline officials have said the accidental discharge Saturday
during Flight 1536 from Denver to Charlotte did not endanger the 124
passengers plus crew on board.

The gun went off as the airline was on its landing approach in North
Carolina. It is the first time a pilot's weapon has been fired on a
plane under a program created after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist
attacks to allow pilots and others to use a firearm to defend against
any act of air piracy or criminal violence, he said.
***

I love that line about the accidental discharge not endangering anyone
on the plane.
-Paul

dustoyevsky@mac.com

On Jun 10, 12:16*pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> On Jun 10, 8:12 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > (quoting):
> > Today, of course, we have modern revolvers with frontier styling that
> > can be fully loaded with a live round under the hammer, in perfect
> > safety. This is because an updated mechanism, usually involving a
> > transfer bar, requires a pull of the trigger to fire the gun.
>
> All good, but if you've got a loose nut -or a loose cannon- BLAM!
> Attempting to foolproof guns underestimates the creativity of fools:

Well, yeah, but putting the hammer down between cylinders in order to
carry all five or six shots into Starbucks, carried in a slow-draw
holster, plus unneeded barrel length for LuckyTodayPunk work seems
like heading in the wrong direction.

In my brief excursion, I found three references to old hands with no
previous incidents on record who screwed up at some most basic level
(checking the firing chamber by sight and feel being the most popular)
and had UD's.

My dad was such a hardass that you didn't point a _cased_ gun at
anything you didn't want to kill. I bet I could find accounts of cased
guns discharging with not much effort.

He also showed me how easy it was to miss a round in the chamber by
seeing what you wanted to see instead of what was really there. "You
stick your finger in there!!!". Of course, that won't necessarily find
the 20 ga. shotgun shell mistakenly loaded into the 12 ga. barrel.

Not foolproof, doing the best we can.

I think Mythbusters busted the "one bullet hole brings down the
airliner" myth. So, Capt. Sureshot's aim would have needed improvement
in order to pose a danger to life and limb, but that often works out
in real life, too. --D-y

Bill C

On Jun 10, 1:16*pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
> On Jun 10, 8:12 am, "dustoyev...@mac.com" <dustoyev...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > (quoting):
> > Today, of course, we have modern revolvers with frontier styling that
> > can be fully loaded with a live round under the hammer, in perfect
> > safety. This is because an updated mechanism, usually involving a
> > transfer bar, requires a pull of the trigger to fire the gun.
>
> All good, but if you've got a loose nut -or a loose cannon- BLAM!
> Attempting to foolproof guns underestimates the creativity of fools:
>
> Pilot's gun blasted small hole through cockpit wall of US Airways
> plane
>
> CHARLOTTE, N.C. — Photos show that a shot fired from a US Airways
> pilot's pistol blasted a small hole through the cockpit wall of a
> plane that landed in North Carolina. The photos obtained today by The
> Associated Press show a small entry hole in the lower side of the
> cockpit wall and a small exit hole on the exterior below the cockpit
> window. Airline officials have said the accidental discharge Saturday
> during Flight 1536 from Denver to Charlotte did not endanger the 124
> passengers plus crew on board.
>
> The gun went off as the airline was on its landing approach in North
> Carolina. It is the first time a pilot's weapon has been fired on a
> plane under a program created after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist
> attacks to allow pilots and others to use a firearm to defend against
> any act of air piracy or criminal violence, he said.
> ***
>
> I love that line about the accidental discharge not endangering anyone
> on the plane.
> -Paul

So you are on the ban cars, and alcohol bandwagon?
From:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/drving.htm

Occurrence and Consequences

During 2005, 16,885 people in the U.S. died in alcohol-related motor
vehicle crashes, representing 39% of all traffic-related deaths (NHTSA
2006).

In 2005, nearly 1.4 million drivers were arrested for driving under
the influence of alcohol or narcotics (Department of Justice 2005).
That’s less than one percent of the 159 million self-reported episodes
of alcohol–impaired driving among U.S. adults each year (Quinlan et
al. 2005).

Drugs other than alcohol (e.g., marijuana and cocaine) are involved in
about 18% of motor vehicle driver deaths. These other drugs are
generally used in combination with alcohol (Jones et al. 2003).

More than half of the 414 child passengers ages 14 and younger who
died in alcohol-related crashes during 2005 were riding with the
drinking driver (NHTSA 2006).


In 2005, 48 children age 14 years and younger who were killed as
pedestrians or pedalcyclists were struck by impaired drivers (NHTSA
2006).

Here's some firearms stuff:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/frmdth.htm


Number of firearm deaths Percent of all firearm deaths
All Unintent-ional Suicide Homicide Unde-termined Unintent-
ional Suicide Homicides Other
All ages
1991 38,317 1,441 18,526 17,986 364 4 48 47 1
1992 37,776 1,409 18,169 17,790 408 4 48 47 1
1993 39,595 1,521 18,940 18,571 563 4 48 47 1
1994 38,505 1,356 18,765 17,866 518 4 49 46 1
1995 35,957 1,225 18,503 15,835 394 3 51 44 1
1996 34,040 1,134 18,166 14,327 413 3 53 42 1
1997 32,436 981 17,566 13,522 367 3 54 42 1
1998 30,708 866 17,424 12,102 316 3 57 39 1
1999 28,874 824 16,599 10,828 324 3 57 38 1
2000 28,663 776 16,586 11,071 230 3 58 39 1
2001 29,573 802 16,869 11,671 231 3 57 39 1

For 2001 there were a total of 802 unintentional deaths by firearm.
That doesn't match the hysteria very well, does it?

Now here's some general stuff from 2005:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/acc-inj.htm

Mortality

All unintentional injury deaths

Number of deaths: 117, 809

Deaths per 100,000 population: 39.7

Cause of death rank: 5

Unintentional fall deaths

Number of deaths: 19, 656

Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.6

Unintentional poisoning deaths

Number of deaths: 23,618

Deaths per 100,000 population: 8.0

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 45,343

Deaths per 100,000 population: 15.3



Yep, call it 900 if you like, out of roughly 117,000 deaths. That's
definitely a good reason to strip people of their Constitutional
rights and freedoms! Paging George Bush!


I failed to phrase that clearly, what I meant was that the accidental/
stupid shit like this was much less than self defense use, which
almost never gets reported outside of a few newspapers, and the NRA.
The level of ignorance, and/or bias from most news agencies is
unbelievable at best.
Firearms are used in aprox. 68% of murders, that leaves roughly 1/3
by other means. We gonna control those?
Taking a look at this table for all violent crimes:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/wuvc01.pdf
Table 2. Violent crime, by type of weapon, 1993-2001

65.9% of non-lethal violent crime didn't have a "weapon" involved.

I agree with D-y by the way on the hammer on an empty chamber for a
revolver, but that's just me. I also carry a semi auto with the slide
closed on an empty chamber, and have to physically rack the slide, by
hand, before it will load a round from the magazine to fire. Any time
you are going to need it, you have plenty of time to do either before
having to fire. The very first rule of safety, or self defense is
situational awareness. Second rule is to de-escalate/defuse the
situation any way posiible, usually by getting the hell out of there.
Like anything else assholes do stupid shit. Exhibit A is that little
ride incident we all saw, or the nutjob with the knife in Tokyo, and
have you seen the "detergent" suicides bit.

http://tinyurl.com/6yspry

Rash of 50 detergent suicides in Japan; chemicals could hurt
bystanders
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Saturday, April 26th 2008, 11:45 AM

TOKYO - At least four people killed themselves Friday by inhaling
fumes from a detergent mixed with other chemicals amid a wave of
similar suicides that has reportedly claimed about 50 lives this month
in Japan.

Lots of links to good info here:
http://www.foxven.com/firearms.html#US

Offenders

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those
possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

Figure that the vasy majority of that 80% were illegal transfers/
actions to get the weapon to the killer.
Once again criminals don't obey the law.

Making it about the tools allows us not to deal with the real issue
which is society. Here's some stats that tell a real story:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/wuvc01.pdf

The vast majority of victims and criminals in these cases are poor
households, minority or otherwise. What a shock.
Then there are the assholes who use this data to demonize poor
minorities. The stats are accurate, but let's talk about why they are
what they are.
How about slavery, followed by apartheid, bad schools, if any all
through, massive discrimination, shitty living conditions, and on and
on.
I'm sure that JT could do a better job with this rant since he's
working to fix this garbage and isn't in it for photo ops, and PR:

http://www.synergos.org/

Paul I'm sure that you and I would more than agree that the first and
biggest problem is to, in reality not BS, give ALL people a real
chance to succeed, and make them believe it's real after all the BS
they've been fed and promised in the past, that was just that.
There was an interesting local piece here on Bill Cosby and some kids
he's helping, and how reality and culture play into success, or the
difficult road disadvantaged people have to travel to get there:

http://www.masslive.com/republican/...7790.xml&coll=1

What we need isn't propaganda, spin, PC BS, or avoiding reality so as
not to offend anyone. We need to talk about these issues, as they are,
nasty crap and all to even begin to get a handle on dealing with it.
If you can't even discuss, and define the problem, then how the hell
are you going to start solving it?

Bill C

Paul G.

On Jun 10, 11:46 am, Bill C <tritonri...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> So you are on the ban cars, and alcohol bandwagon?

No. I like guns and booze. I just don't like gun nuts and drunk
drivers.
-Paul

Donald Munro

Paul G. wrote:
> No. I like guns and booze.

Axl posts to rbr.

Paul G.

On Jun 10, 1:56 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Paul G. wrote:
> > No. I like guns and booze.
>
> Axl posts to rbr.

He shoots 'em and his dad eats 'em? To esoteric for me, or even for
me and Google.
-Paul

Ryan Cousineau

In article
<75bc588e-a8b2-4989-8026-ccbf9b6893a5@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
"Paul G." <carbide@egine.com> wrote:

> On Jun 10, 1:56 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Paul G. wrote:
> > > No. I like guns and booze.
> >
> > Axl posts to rbr.
>
> He shoots 'em and his dad eats 'em? To esoteric for me, or even for
> me and Google.
> -Paul

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axl_Rose>

If it was "Guns N' Boozes" I'd like the band a lot more. However, I do
appreciate their Chinese Democracy project.

The Axel you're thinking of now does charity rides:

http://www.cycleforcancer.com/

He was, like, the third-most-famous athlete in the ride!

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Howard Kveck

In article <484eea63$0$16927$ec3e2dad@news.usenetmonster.com>,
Donald Munro <fat-dumbass@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Paul G. wrote:
> > No. I like guns and booze.
>
> Axl posts to rbr.

Well, Axl is a Fattie Master, at least compared to what he useta be.

--
tanx,
Howard

The bloody pubs are bloody dull
The bloody clubs are bloody full
Of bloody girls and bloody guys
With bloody murder in their eyes

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Paul G.

On Jun 10, 5:20 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article
> <75bc588e-a8b2-4989-8026-ccbf9b689...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 10, 1:56 pm, Donald Munro <fat-dumb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Paul G. wrote:
> > > > No. I like guns and booze.
>
> > > Axl posts to rbr.
>
> > He shoots 'em and his dad eats 'em? To esoteric for me, or even for
> > me and Google.
> > -Paul
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axl_Rose>
>
> If it was "Guns N' Boozes" I'd like the band a lot more. However, I do
> appreciate their Chinese Democracy project.
>
> The Axel you're thinking of now does charity rides:
>
> http://www.cycleforcancer.com/
>
> He was, like, the third-most-famous athlete in the ride!
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau rcous...@gmail.comhttp://www.wiredcola.com/
> "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
> "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

The subconscious is an amazing thing. Axel/"Guns N' Roses" floated up
out of mine while I was driving, and I don't know shit about him or
the band. Of course it should have been Guns N' Rosé.
-Paul