Bikes for the Big and Tall

Gary Jackson

I. Introduction

I am 6'4", 400lbs, and I am looking for a bicycle. I have three main
reasons riding a bicycle. First, I would like to be able to ride with
my wife occasionally. She's riding a Specialized Sequoyah that we
bought last week for her. It was considerably easier to shop for her.
Second, I would like to run short errands with the bicycle. It seems
like a terrible waste to start the car just to go to the grocery
store. Third, I would like to be able to commute with the bike. The
commute involves a lot of riding on two-lane roads including some
stretches where there is no shoulder.

I have not been on a bike in about 18 years, so I definitely will not
be riding my dodgy commuter route until I get in better shape and can
handle the bicycle proficiently. My last bicycle was some junky
Wally-World 24" thing with a gear shift that did not work that I used
until I outgrew it completely. I am a little concerned about getting
back in the saddle, particularly since my form was never very good in
the first place.

I've been doing a lot of research to find out what my options are. I
am working with a particular budget in mind that does not fit too many
of the things that I am about to list. However, I have included
them here for reference and comparison purposes. This post is a
response and update to a post from Chalo Colina to rec.bicycles.misc
from about a year ago:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....db61b486b8a06d?

Some of the information has changed in the last year. Some of it is
the same, but I go in to more detail about the offerings. In
particular, I have focused my attention on the components that Chalo
has picked out as important, such as wheels and cranksets. Sometimes
the information on a vendor's website is not clear. In those cases, I
have sent mail to them and asked for details or a clarification. I
also address some other options that were not mentioned in the
previous post.

Before I get in to the nitty gritty, I need to make a point: I am not
an expert. As I have stated previously, it has been a very long time
since I have been on a bicycle. Anything that is written here is done
because I read it on a web page some where, not from any actual
practical experience. When you take advice from random people on the
internet, you take your life and safety in to your own hands. This is
doubly true in this case because I do not even pretend to know what I
am talking about. By that same token, if you see some point on which
I am clearly wrong, please reply so that others will not be mislead by
my mistake.

II. Existing Bicycles Marketed to Large Riders

The first three bicycles addressed here seem to be the big three in
terms of bicycles targeted to the fat man market. They are well
built machines with quality components with a commensurate price tag.
The last two are more affordable but may have problems of their own.

A. Schauff Sumo

http://www.schauff.de/schauff2002.d...ahr=2008&id=516

The first bicycle that Chalo addressed is the Schauff Sumo. This fine
piece of German engineering has a rated capacity of 200kg (440lb) and
comes in frame sizes up to 80cm (27.5 in). They also sell a mountain
bike version with a capacity of 170kg (375lb). The finished bicycle
weighs in at 18.5kg (40lb), which seems to be about what to expect for
an overbuilt bicycle for large men. The frame is 7020 Aluminum and it
has the big 1.5" head tube. The Sumo uses Shimano Saint or Hone parts
at various trim levels. At the top trim level, Shauff offers the
Rohloff 14-gear hub. The Sumo has 36-spoke wheels with disc brakes.
As far as I can tell, it uses 26" wheels. This bicycle is priced from
about $2900 to $4700. The cost of the highest trim level is probably
due to the Rohloff hub, which by itself costs more than most
bicycles. There is still no North American distributor for Schauff.
As Chalo noted, buying one might involve negotiating with one of their
international distributors.

B. Utopia Velo London

http://www.utopia-fahrrad.de/Fahrra...London_104.html

The London is a bicycle offered by the German company Utopia Velo.
Their website was entirely in German, so it was a little hard for me
to figure out what the details of their offering are. Aside from
being another overbuilt German panzerkampfvelo with the Rohloff hub
option, this bicycle very different than the Sumo. Where the Sumo is
more tour oriented, the London seems to be more comfort oriented. The
London is built on a Chromium-Molybdenum steel frame with a 1-1/8 head
tube in sizes up to 88cm. As far as other components are concerned,
Utopia Velo offers a great many options. I have no idea what most of
them mean. The bicycle uses 28" wheels with 36 spokes and rim
brakes. The London price is clustered around $2500-$3000, with an
exception for the Rohloff hub model, which costs around $4000. As far
as I can tell, Utopia bicycles are not distributed internationally.
They seem to be sold all over Germany, as well as one shop each in
Austria
and The Netherlands. That seems like a good excuse to go to Munich
for Oktoberfest. Buy a big 'ol bike while you're there and ship it
home to burn
off all that beer when you get back.

C. Co-Motion Mazama

http://www.co-motion.com/single_bikes/mazama.html

The Mazama rounds out the trio of high end bicycles. Unlike the other
two, the Mazama is made in America. In fact, my friendly local
bicycle store is a Co-Motion dealer. However, this bicycle is well
outside of my price range. Co-Motion lists no rated capacity for the
Mazama, so I sent them mail and asked if I would fit. They suggested
that the handlebar and seatpost would probably have to be replaced.
Furthermore, if my size exceeded the largest frame available (62cm),
they suggested that I can get a custom sized frame. The Mazama uses
Shimano XT/XTR components for the transmission. It uses a
RaceFace Deus crankset. The wheels use tandem components. They are
36
or 40 spoke 700C Velocity Dyad rims with 700x35 tires and disc
brakes. The list price for the Co-Motion Mazama is $2895. The
Co-Pilot model is $3575. The Co-Pilot frame can be pulled apart in
the middle and packed for airline travel. The frame and fork alone
can be had for less.

D. Zize A New Leaf

http://www.supersizedcycles.com/pro...eavyDutyBicycle

Zize is the brand name for the self-produced bicycles at
supersizedcycles.com. Their model A New Leaf is the one I am most
interested in, so that is the one I focus on here. Chalo Colina was
pretty dismissive of this manufacturer. The web site is frustratingly
detail-light when it comes to the specifics of their bicycles. They
claim to be able to support a rider of 550lbs. There is no frame
geometry or even a selection of frame sizes on their site. I sent
them mail about the lack of detail or even sizing information. They
told me that the frame they send you is sized based on inseam
measurement. They also account for irregular proportions if you send
those measurements as well. They did not actually say the frames were
custom of any sort, so I guess they have a stock of different sized
frames and they pick what you get. I also asked them about their
components. They said the reason why they did not list specific
components on the website is because their operation is so small that
they cannot get the kind of steady parts supply that other builders
can. They did send me the component list for their initial prototype
and assured me that any parts shipped on a bike were at the same level
or better.

The rear wheel is built around a Shimano Nexus 7 speed hub with roller
brake. The rims are Sun Rhyno Lite with 36 spokes. For what it's
worth, this contradicts their photograph. The crankset is the FSA X
Drive. It gets spotty reviews on mtbr.com. The complaint is not with
the crank arms, but with the bottom bracket component itself:

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/drivetrain/...202_115crx.aspx

The list price is $1749.99.

E. Kona Hoss

http://www.konaworld.com/08_hoss_w.htm

Rounding out the big man bikes is the Kona Hoss, marketed to
Clydesdales by name. As far as I can tell, a Clydesdale is an athlete
who weighs in excess of 200lb, so we can assume that the bike will
support that. I wrote Kona about this, and they suggested that I
should visit a Kona dealer for the best advice, though the Hoss would
be fine for me after upgrading the grips, tires, and seat. The Hoss
comes in sizes up to 22". The drive train is mostly Shimano Deore
components. The wheels are 26" with 32 spokes and disc brakes. The
crankset is the FSA Alpha Drive ISIS, which has lots of negative
reviews on mtbr.com and a record of failure:

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/drivetrain/...198_115crx.aspx

It is also unique on this list in that it has a suspension fork. The
list price for the Kona Hoss is $999.

III. Other Bicycles

There are some other bicycles that may be appropriate for large men,
though they are not explicitly marketed that way. I will discuss
three of these bicycles: the Specialized Hardrock, the Worksman Coney
Island Cruiser, and the Ellsworth The Ride. The last one may seem
unconventional, but I will address that in a moment. There are also
some other manufacturers of custom bicycles, recumbents, and trikes
who may be able to put together a nice ride, for a price.

A. Specialized Hardrock

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBk...?sid=08Hardrock

The Specialized Hardrock seems to be a favorite on the mtbr.com
Clydesdale forum:

http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=95

The Specialized Hardrock has no stated capacity, so I asked them if I
would be able to ride it safely. They were pretty frank in answering
me, saying it would not be safe as configured. They suggested that
replacing the wheels and fork would be sufficient. The Hardrock comes
in a variety of sizes, including 21" and 24". This is important: the
Hardrock is the only frame I've found that comes in such a large stock
size that also is not part of some high-priced German tour de force.
In fact, I've had a hard time finding anything at all above a 22" in a
beefy frame. The Hardrock is fitted with low end Shimano and Suntour
components. The Hardrock Sport base line model has a 32-spoke wheel
with rim brakes, and the higher level models have 32-spoke wheels with
disc brakes. The Hardrock also has a suspension fork that would have
to be replaced. List prices are $420, $550, and $660.

B. Worksman Coney Island Cruiser

http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_...l/cruisers.html

The Worksman Coney Island Cruiser is the straight-bar cruiser in the
Worksman American Cruiser lineup. It is the only one that comes in a
20" frame, the largest they sell. Supersizedcycles.com resells the
Worksman cruiser and states a capacity of 330lb, which is far too
small for me. The Cruiser uses a Shimano internal gearing hub with a
coaster brake in up to seven speeds. It also has an optional front
drm brake. By default, the rims are 36h and made out of steel. These
bicycles start at $299.99, and a fully tweaked out model would still
be less than $1000.

C. Ellsworth The Ride

This probably seems a little ridiculous to the experienced reader.
Bear with me for a moment, though. They claim that they can fit any
rider with their "Expanding Universe" system. I wrote them and asked
if I would fit. They told me that they would fit me with a metal
seatpost instead of carbon fiber, and they suggested that I get the
base model with the chain drive instead of the belt drive. I have
never ridden their bikes, so I could not say whether The Ride would
actually fit my frame, much less my weight. Perhaps someone has
experience with this bicycle and can share its limitations. The Ride
uses a Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) hub for gearing
instead of a conventional geared hub or a deraileur system. The
wheels are 32-spoke with disc brakes in the back and apparently no
brakes in the front. It has 26"x3" wheels. The fork is made of
carbon fiber. The list price for the base model is $2995.

D. Other Miscellaneous Makers

Zinn will make custom bikes for very tall men and for heavy men.
However, these are all custom. S&B Recumbents will make recumbent
bicycles and recumbent tricycles for 400lb riders, including those
nifty tadpole style trikes. Lightfoot makes the Ranger, a stock
recumbent that
will take a 350lb rider of up to 6'5" tall. They will make a longer
frame. I am unsure if they will make a frame to carry heavier people,
and I have not gotten a return mail from them yet about my inquiry.
Otherwise, stock recumbents seem to have a capacity for a rider of
no more than 275lb.

IV. Chalo's Frankenstein

Chalo Colina suggested that a very suitable bicycle could be built up
from existing parts. I went down the parts list and tried to find
these things to get a ballpark estimate for the total parts price.
Where I could not find a particular part, I tried to find something
equivalent, at least in terms of advertised functionality. Some parts
I picked for no other reason than I like them.

Hub: Gusset Jury Rear Hub

I could not find a US dealer for this part. It costs about 70 GBP
($140) from dealers in the United Kingdom.

Rims: Salsa Gordo 48h

I could not find Sun-Ringle King Pin rims. This is another 26" rim
that I found with 48 holes. These are $50 each.

Tires: Schwalbe Big Apple

These tires cost about $40 each.

Crankset: Redline MONSTER

This can be had for about $60.

Chainring: Odyssey Million Dollar

About $50. This has an integral external guard, and one can buy bolt
on internal guards for total sprocket protection on both sides.

Handlebars: Odyssey Lumberjack

This is an 8" BMX handlebar. It's About $70.

Seat: Electra Townie Saddle

Electra will sell you one for $24.

So, assuming we are using high end spokes that are roughly a dollar a
piece, we are up over $600 on our budget now before buying a frame and
a lot of other expensive parts. This also does not include the labor
cost from the local bike store, if they will even do it for us.
Fortunately, some communities have open bike shops where we can
take your bike in and work on it using shared tools.

Frame: ???

The frame is where things get messy. The Nashbar frame that Chalo
recommends is no longer sold by Nashbar. Now, they have a different
steel frame called the Nashbar Signature 853 Mountain Frame. It only
comes in sizes up to 21.5. It has a $399 list price, but the current
price is $289:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?...0Frames%2FBikes

The Surly Instigator is another frame that Chalo mentioned. It only
comes in sizes up to 20:

http://www.surlybikes.com/instigator.html

It can be had for about $400:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/prod...ator+Frame.aspx

There are plenty of "dirtjumper/urban assault" frames that are built
very solid, but they only come in very small sizes and seem to have a
geometry suited only to doing tricks. There's nothing wrong with
that, but those solid frames cannot really be used by tall people.

There are plenty of Aluminum hardtail frames out there. Some of them
have got to come in the right size. Furthermore, the local bike shop
might have some old ones on hand, as well.

V. What Now?

Given my budget, I really only have two reasonable choices from the
things listed above. I could buy the Kona Hoss and start upgrading,
or I could buy the Specialized Hardrock and start upgrading. My
choices may be even more limited, because I have no idea what size
frame I will need for proper fit. At this point, I'm leaning towards
the Hardrock since lots of people like it, the lower price means I
have more in the rest of my budget for aftermarket upgrades. Though
the crankset may be unknown, at least it is not known to fail during
use like the one on the Hoss. The idea here is to build up something
like a pseudo-Sumo over time, where parts are upgraded in small groups
until I have something that only needs preventative maintenance.

The bottom line is, though, that I need to go to my local bike store
and find a bike that fits. It may be that the Hoss just feels better
to me, in which case I'm better off spending more money on that bike
and replacing the crank before it goes.

There may be more non-conventional options. A bullet proof jumbo
sized fixed gear built up from parts would be cool and hopefully
cheap. I'd have a better chance of actually getting it put together
and working myself, I think, too. I'm not sure if that's appropriate
for my experience and intended use, though.

Maybe I should save my money and walk off the weight until I can fit a
more conventional bike. I have a hybrid commute that is part carpool
and part free bus, so I am not pressed to stop using my car to
commute.

I am open to other suggestions.

VI. Some Questions

I have some questions. Maybe you can answer them.

A. Is there any way to estimate the labor cost for something like
Chalo's Frankenstein from the friendly local bicycle store? Any store
owners care to chime in about whether you would do that for me and how
much you would charge?

B. There are open shops in other towns where one can bring a bicycle
in and do work using shared tools. Is there anything like that in the
Greater Baltimore/Washington, DC area? I should probably direct this
question to a local forum as well.

C. Are there any books or online tutorials out there for putting
together a bicycle from parts?

D. What other stuff do I need? Presumably I need a pump, a car rack
for taking bicycles to safe places on weekends, and some safety
devices. Is there anything else that I need?

E. I'm thinking of dropping by the Goodwill store tomorrow afternoon
to pick up a beater so I can work on form out in the parking lot. I'm
hoping to get myself re-aquainted with cycling before I go and scratch
up some new bike that the local biking store puts underneath me to try
out. Is this a bad idea? How likely is a catastrophic failure under
gentle usage conditions with a thrift store special? Will this course
of action result only in tears and a trip to the emergency room?

Thanks for reading the whole thing.

--
Gary

Hank

On Jun 5, 8:17 pm, Gary Jackson <bar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I. Introduction
>
> I am 6'4", 400lbs, and I am looking for a bicycle. I have three main
> reasons riding a bicycle. First, I would like to be able to ride with
> my wife occasionally. She's riding a Specialized Sequoyah that we
> bought last week for her. It was considerably easier to shop for her.
> Second, I would like to run short errands with the bicycle. It seems
> like a terrible waste to start the car just to go to the grocery
> store. Third, I would like to be able to commute with the bike. The
> commute involves a lot of riding on two-lane roads including some
> stretches where there is no shoulder.
>
> I have not been on a bike in about 18 years, so I definitely will not
> be riding my dodgy commuter route until I get in better shape and can
> handle the bicycle proficiently. My last bicycle was some junky
> Wally-World 24" thing with a gear shift that did not work that I used
> until I outgrew it completely. I am a little concerned about getting
> back in the saddle, particularly since my form was never very good in
> the first place.
>
> I've been doing a lot of research to find out what my options are. I
> am working with a particular budget in mind that does not fit too many
> of the things that I am about to list. However, I have included
> them here for reference and comparison purposes. This post is a
> response and update to a post from Chalo Colina to rec.bicycles.misc
> from about a year ago:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec....db61b486b8a06d?
>
> Some of the information has changed in the last year. Some of it is
> the same, but I go in to more detail about the offerings. In
> particular, I have focused my attention on the components that Chalo
> has picked out as important, such as wheels and cranksets. Sometimes
> the information on a vendor's website is not clear. In those cases, I
> have sent mail to them and asked for details or a clarification. I
> also address some other options that were not mentioned in the
> previous post.
>
> Before I get in to the nitty gritty, I need to make a point: I am not
> an expert. As I have stated previously, it has been a very long time
> since I have been on a bicycle. Anything that is written here is done
> because I read it on a web page some where, not from any actual
> practical experience. When you take advice from random people on the
> internet, you take your life and safety in to your own hands. This is
> doubly true in this case because I do not even pretend to know what I
> am talking about. By that same token, if you see some point on which
> I am clearly wrong, please reply so that others will not be mislead by
> my mistake.
>
> II. Existing Bicycles Marketed to Large Riders
>
> The first three bicycles addressed here seem to be the big three in
> terms of bicycles targeted to the fat man market. They are well
> built machines with quality components with a commensurate price tag.
> The last two are more affordable but may have problems of their own.
>
> A. Schauff Sumo
>
> http://www.schauff.de/schauff2002.d...e=e&action=fahr...
>
> The first bicycle that Chalo addressed is the Schauff Sumo. This fine
> piece of German engineering has a rated capacity of 200kg (440lb) and
> comes in frame sizes up to 80cm (27.5 in). They also sell a mountain
> bike version with a capacity of 170kg (375lb). The finished bicycle
> weighs in at 18.5kg (40lb), which seems to be about what to expect for
> an overbuilt bicycle for large men. The frame is 7020 Aluminum and it
> has the big 1.5" head tube. The Sumo uses Shimano Saint or Hone parts
> at various trim levels. At the top trim level, Shauff offers the
> Rohloff 14-gear hub. The Sumo has 36-spoke wheels with disc brakes.
> As far as I can tell, it uses 26" wheels. This bicycle is priced from
> about $2900 to $4700. The cost of the highest trim level is probably
> due to the Rohloff hub, which by itself costs more than most
> bicycles. There is still no North American distributor for Schauff.
> As Chalo noted, buying one might involve negotiating with one of their
> international distributors.
>
> B. Utopia Velo London
>
> http://www.utopia-fahrrad.de/Fahrra...l/81_London_104....
>
> The London is a bicycle offered by the German company Utopia Velo.
> Their website was entirely in German, so it was a little hard for me
> to figure out what the details of their offering are. Aside from
> being another overbuilt German panzerkampfvelo with the Rohloff hub
> option, this bicycle very different than the Sumo. Where the Sumo is
> more tour oriented, the London seems to be more comfort oriented. The
> London is built on a Chromium-Molybdenum steel frame with a 1-1/8 head
> tube in sizes up to 88cm. As far as other components are concerned,
> Utopia Velo offers a great many options. I have no idea what most of
> them mean. The bicycle uses 28" wheels with 36 spokes and rim
> brakes. The London price is clustered around $2500-$3000, with an
> exception for the Rohloff hub model, which costs around $4000. As far
> as I can tell, Utopia bicycles are not distributed internationally.
> They seem to be sold all over Germany, as well as one shop each in
> Austria
> and The Netherlands. That seems like a good excuse to go to Munich
> for Oktoberfest. Buy a big 'ol bike while you're there and ship it
> home to burn
> off all that beer when you get back.
>
> C. Co-Motion Mazama
>
> http://www.co-motion.com/single_bikes/mazama.html
>
> The Mazama rounds out the trio of high end bicycles. Unlike the other
> two, the Mazama is made in America. In fact, my friendly local
> bicycle store is a Co-Motion dealer. However, this bicycle is well
> outside of my price range. Co-Motion lists no rated capacity for the
> Mazama, so I sent them mail and asked if I would fit. They suggested
> that the handlebar and seatpost would probably have to be replaced.
> Furthermore, if my size exceeded the largest frame available (62cm),
> they suggested that I can get a custom sized frame. The Mazama uses
> Shimano XT/XTR components for the transmission. It uses a
> RaceFace Deus crankset. The wheels use tandem components. They are
> 36
> or 40 spoke 700C Velocity Dyad rims with 700x35 tires and disc
> brakes. The list price for the Co-Motion Mazama is $2895. The
> Co-Pilot model is $3575. The Co-Pilot frame can be pulled apart in
> the middle and packed for airline travel. The frame and fork alone
> can be had for less.
>
> D. Zize A New Leaf
>
> http://www.supersizedcycles.com/pro...eavyDutyBicycle
>
> Zize is the brand name for the self-produced bicycles at
> supersizedcycles.com. Their model A New Leaf is the one I am most
> interested in, so that is the one I focus on here. Chalo Colina was
> pretty dismissive of this manufacturer. The web site is frustratingly
> detail-light when it comes to the specifics of their bicycles. They
> claim to be able to support a rider of 550lbs. There is no frame
> geometry or even a selection of frame sizes on their site. I sent
> them mail about the lack of detail or even sizing information. They
> told me that the frame they send you is sized based on inseam
> measurement. They also account for irregular proportions if you send
> those measurements as well. They did not actually say the frames were
> custom of any sort, so I guess they have a stock of different sized
> frames and they pick what you get. I also asked them about their
> components. They said the reason why they did not list specific
> components on the website is because their operation is so small that
> they cannot get the kind of steady parts supply that other builders
> can. They did send me the component list for their initial prototype
> and assured me that any parts shipped on a bike were at the same level
> or better.
>
> The rear wheel is built around a Shimano Nexus 7 speed hub with roller
> brake. The rims are Sun Rhyno Lite with 36 spokes. For what it's
> worth, this contradicts their photograph. The crankset is the FSA X
> Drive. It gets spotty reviews on mtbr.com. The complaint is not with
> the crank arms, but with the bottom bracket component itself:
>
> http://www.mtbr.com/cat/drivetrain/...e-bash/PRD_3602...
>
> The list price is $1749.99.
>
> E. Kona Hoss
>
> http://www.konaworld.com/08_hoss_w.htm
>
> Rounding out the big man bikes is the Kona Hoss, marketed to
> Clydesdales by name. As far as I can tell, a Clydesdale is an athlete
> who weighs in excess of 200lb, so we can assume that the bike will
> support that. I wrote Kona about this, and they suggested that I
> should visit a Kona dealer for the best advice, though the Hoss would
> be fine for me after upgrading the grips, tires, and seat. The Hoss
> comes in sizes up to 22". The drive train is mostly Shimano Deore
> components. The wheels are 26" with 32 spokes and disc brakes. The
> crankset is the FSA Alpha Drive ISIS, which has lots of negative
> reviews on mtbr.com and a record of failure:
>
> http://www.mtbr.com/cat/drivetrain/...drive/PRD_36019...
>
> It is also unique on this list in that it has a suspension fork. The
> list price for the Kona Hoss is $999.
>
> III. Other Bicycles
>
> There are some other bicycles that may be appropriate for large men,
> though they are not explicitly marketed that way. I will discuss
> three of these bicycles: the Specialized Hardrock, the Worksman Coney
> Island Cruiser, and the Ellsworth The Ride. The last one may seem
> unconventional, but I will address that in a moment. There are also
> some other manufacturers of custom bicycles, recumbents, and trikes
> who may be able to put together a nice ride, for a price.
>
> A. Specialized Hardrock
>
> http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBk...?sid=08Hardrock
>
> The Specialized Hardrock seems to be a favorite on the mtbr.com
> Clydesdale forum:
>
> http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=95
>
> The Specialized Hardrock has no stated capacity, so I asked them if I
> would be able to ride it safely. They were pretty frank in answering
> me, saying it would not be safe as configured. They suggested that
> replacing the wheels and fork would be sufficient. The Hardrock comes
> in a variety of sizes, including 21" and 24". This is important: the
> Hardrock is the only frame I've found that comes in such a large stock
> size that also is not part of some high-priced German tour de force.
> In fact, I've had a hard time finding anything at all above a 22" in a
> beefy frame. The Hardrock is fitted with low end Shimano and Suntour
> components. The Hardrock Sport base line model has a 32-spoke wheel
> with rim brakes, and the higher level models have 32-spoke wheels with
> disc brakes. The Hardrock also has a suspension fork that would have
> to be replaced. List prices are $420, $550, and $660.
>
> B. Worksman Coney Island Cruiser
>
> http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_...l/cruisers.html
>
> The Worksman Coney Island Cruiser is the straight-bar cruiser in the
> Worksman American Cruiser lineup. It is the only one that comes in a
> 20" frame, the largest they sell. Supersizedcycles.com resells the
> Worksman cruiser and states a capacity of 330lb, which is far too
> small for me. The Cruiser uses a Shimano internal gearing hub with a
> coaster brake in up to seven speeds. It also has an optional front
> drm brake. By default, the rims are 36h and made out of steel. These
> bicycles start at $299.99, and a fully tweaked out model would still
> be less than $1000.
>
> C. Ellsworth The Ride
>
> This probably seems a little ridiculous to the experienced reader.
> Bear with me for a moment, though. They claim that they can fit any
> rider with their "Expanding Universe" system. I wrote them and asked
> if I would fit. They told me that they would fit me with a metal
> seatpost instead of carbon fiber, and they suggested that I get the
> base model with the chain drive instead of the belt drive. I have
> never ridden their bikes, so I could not say whether The Ride would
> actually fit my frame, much less my weight. Perhaps someone has
> experience with this bicycle and can share its limitations. The Ride
> uses a Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) hub for gearing
> instead of a conventional geared hub or a deraileur system. The
> wheels are 32-spoke with disc brakes in the back and apparently no
> brakes in the front. It has 26"x3" wheels. The fork is made of
> carbon fiber. The list price for the base model is $2995.
>
> D. Other Miscellaneous Makers
>
> Zinn will make custom bikes for very tall men and for heavy men.
> However, these are all custom. S&B Recumbents will make recumbent
> bicycles and recumbent tricycles for 400lb riders, including those
> nifty tadpole style trikes. Lightfoot makes the Ranger, a stock
> recumbent that
> will take a 350lb rider of up to 6'5" tall. They will make a longer
> frame. I am unsure if they will make a frame to carry heavier people,
> and I have not gotten a return mail from them yet about my inquiry.
> Otherwise, stock recumbents seem to have a capacity for a rider of
> no more than 275lb.
>
> IV. Chalo's Frankenstein
>
> Chalo Colina suggested that a very suitable bicycle could be built up
> from existing parts. I went down the parts list and tried to find
> these things to get a ballpark estimate for the total parts price.
> Where I could not find a particular part, I tried to find something
> equivalent, at least in terms of advertised functionality. Some parts
> I picked for no other reason than I like them.
>
> Hub: Gusset Jury Rear Hub
>
> I could not find a US dealer for this part. It costs about 70 GBP
> ($140) from dealers in the United Kingdom.
>
> Rims: Salsa Gordo 48h
>
> I could not find Sun-Ringle King Pin rims. This is another 26" rim
> that I found with 48 holes. These are $50 each.
>
> Tires: Schwalbe Big Apple
>
> These tires cost about $40 each.
>
> Crankset: Redline MONSTER
>
> This can be had for about $60.
>
> Chainring: Odyssey Million Dollar
>
> About $50. This has an integral external guard, and one can buy bolt
> on internal guards for total sprocket protection on both sides.
>
> Handlebars: Odyssey Lumberjack
>
> This is an 8" BMX handlebar. It's About $70.
>
> Seat: Electra Townie Saddle
>
> Electra will sell you one for $24.
>
> So, assuming we are using high end spokes that are roughly a dollar a
> piece, we are up over $600 on our budget now before buying a frame and
> a lot of other expensive parts. This also does not include the labor
> cost from the local bike store, if they will even do it for us.
> Fortunately, some communities have open bike shops where we can
> take your bike in and work on it using shared tools.
>
> Frame: ???
>
> The frame is where things get messy. The Nashbar frame that Chalo
> recommends is no longer sold by Nashbar. Now, they have a different
> steel frame called the Nashbar Signature 853 Mountain Frame. It only
> comes in sizes up to 21.5. It has a $399 list price, but the current
> price is $289:
>
> http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?...bcategory=60001...
>
> The Surly Instigator is another frame that Chalo mentioned. It only
> comes in sizes up to 20:
>
> http://www.surlybikes.com/instigator.html
>
> It can be had for about $400:
>
> http://www.jensonusa.com/store/prod...Instigator+Fram...
>
> There are plenty of "dirtjumper/urban assault" frames that are built
> very solid, but they only come in very small sizes and seem to have a
> geometry suited only to doing tricks. There's nothing wrong with
> that, but those solid frames cannot really be used by tall people.
>
> There are plenty of Aluminum hardtail frames out there. Some of them
> have got to come in the right size. Furthermore, the local bike shop
> might have some old ones on hand, as well.
>
> V. What Now?
>
> Given my budget, I really only have two reasonable choices from the
> things listed above. I could buy the Kona Hoss and start upgrading,
> or I could buy the Specialized Hardrock and start upgrading. My
> choices may be even more limited, because I have no idea what size
> frame I will need for proper fit. At this point, I'm leaning towards
> the Hardrock since lots of people like it, the lower price means I
> have more in the rest of my budget for aftermarket upgrades. Though
> the crankset may be unknown, at least it is not known to fail during
> use like the one on the Hoss. The idea here is to build up something
> like a pseudo-Sumo over time, where parts are upgraded in small groups
> until I have something that only needs preventative maintenance.
>
> The bottom line is, though, that I need to go to my local bike store
> and find a bike that fits. It may be that the Hoss just feels better
> to me, in which case I'm better off spending more money on that bike
> and replacing the crank before it goes.
>
> There may be more non-conventional options. A bullet proof jumbo
> sized fixed gear built up from parts would be cool and hopefully
> cheap. I'd have a better chance of actually getting it put together
> and working myself, I think, too. I'm not sure if that's appropriate
> for my experience and intended use, though.
>
> Maybe I should save my money and walk off the weight until I can fit a
> more conventional bike. I have a hybrid commute that is part carpool
> and part free bus, so I am not pressed to stop using my car to
> commute.
>
> I am open to other suggestions.
>
> VI. Some Questions
>
> I have some questions. Maybe you can answer them.
>
> A. Is there any way to estimate the labor cost for something like
> Chalo's Frankenstein from the friendly local bicycle store? Any store
> owners care to chime in about whether you would do that for me and how
> much you would charge?
>
> B. There are open shops in other towns where one can bring a bicycle
> in and do work using shared tools. Is there anything like that in the
> Greater Baltimore/Washington, DC area? I should probably direct this
> question to a local forum as well.
>
> C. Are there any books or online tutorials out there for putting
> together a bicycle from parts?
>
> D. What other stuff do I need? Presumably I need a pump, a car rack
> for taking bicycles to safe places on weekends, and some safety
> devices. Is there anything else that I need?
>
> E. I'm thinking of dropping by the Goodwill store tomorrow afternoon
> to pick up a beater so I can work on form out in the parking lot. I'm
> hoping to get myself re-aquainted with cycling before I go and scratch
> up some new bike that the local biking store puts underneath me to try
> out. Is this a bad idea? How likely is a catastrophic failure under
> gentle usage conditions with a thrift store special? Will this course
> of action result only in tears and a trip to the emergency room?
>
> Thanks for reading the whole thing.
>
> --
> Gary

I'm wondering if a straight-ahead touring bike might do the trick. I
weigh 250, and I've hung over 75 lbs of gear on my Surly Long Haul
Trucker, and it was rock solid. It comes stock with 36 spoke wheels,
which isn't as common as it should be. Tires are a bouncy 37mm. I'm 6'-
even and ride a 60cm model, though most six-footers go for a 58cm.
They make a 62cm, which would probably fit you fine, though you might
want to upgrade the stock Kalloy seatpost with a Thompson, if you have
the seat very high at all. The complete bike sells for under a grand,
and is nothing if not overbuilt.

http://www.surlybikes.com/lht_comp.html

Send them mail, see what they think, if it can handle that much man.

jim beam

Gary Jackson wrote:
> I. Introduction
>
> I am 6'4", 400lbs, and I am looking for a bicycle.

<snip>

tldr.

google this group for the experiences of chalo colina. regular
contributor. big guy. he'll set you straight.

Jasper Janssen

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:36:47 -0700, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net>
wrote:
>Gary Jackson wrote:
>> I. Introduction
>>
>> I am 6'4", 400lbs, and I am looking for a bicycle.
>
><snip>
>
>tldr.
>
>google this group for the experiences of chalo colina. regular
>contributor. big guy. he'll set you straight.

You might have at least skimmed it, even if you were too lazy to read,
which would have prevented you from inserting your foot quite that deep in
your mouth.

Jasper

jim beam

Jasper Janssen wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:36:47 -0700, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net>
> wrote:
>> Gary Jackson wrote:
>>> I. Introduction
>>>
>>> I am 6'4", 400lbs, and I am looking for a bicycle.
>> <snip>
>>
>> tldr.
>>
>> google this group for the experiences of chalo colina. regular
>> contributor. big guy. he'll set you straight.
>
> You might have at least skimmed it, even if you were too lazy to read,
> which would have prevented you from inserting your foot quite that deep in
> your mouth.
>


eh?

Gary Jackson

On Jun 6, 9:18 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> Jasper Janssen wrote:
> > On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:36:47 -0700, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net>
> > wrote:
> >> Gary Jackson wrote:
> >>> I. Introduction
>
> >>> I am 6'4", 400lbs, and I am looking for a bicycle.
> >> <snip>
>
> >> tldr.
>
> >> google this group for the experiences of chalo colina. regular
> >> contributor. big guy. he'll set you straight.
>
> > You might have at least skimmed it, even if you were too lazy to read,
> > which would have prevented you from inserting your foot quite that deep in
> > your mouth.
>
> eh?

He's saying that my post makes it clear that I am aware of Chalo
Colina and his posts here and in other forums with respect to heavy
riders. My missive is in large part an expansion and an update to a
post from Chalo Colina from about a year ago.

--
Gary

Peter Cole

Gary Jackson wrote:
> I. Introduction
>
> I am 6'4", 400lbs, and I am looking for a bicycle.
>

> A. Specialized Hardrock
>
> http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBk...?sid=08Hardrock
>
> The Specialized Hardrock seems to be a favorite on the mtbr.com
> Clydesdale forum:
>
> http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=95
>
> The Specialized Hardrock has no stated capacity, so I asked them if I
> would be able to ride it safely. They were pretty frank in answering
> me, saying it would not be safe as configured. They suggested that
> replacing the wheels and fork would be sufficient. The Hardrock comes
> in a variety of sizes, including 21" and 24".

I think the most economical solution is an upgraded MTB. At your size, a
well made MTB should be adequate for road riding since they are designed
for much more stressful terrain.

My guess is that the typical wheels would be adequate if properly set
up. Ditto for the cranks, although I wouldn't pedal standing -- just in
case.

The biggest problem with a stock set up I see would be the seat post and
fork. The seat post is a concern because you're both tall and heavy, so
that means a lot of extension with a large load. Aluminum MTB frames
help here, because the seat tube is usually a larger diameter than most
other frames, but I'd still be concerned with a stock post. I'd also
worry about the fork, not only for possible failure, but also that it
would bottom out just from static load.

Unfortunately, most of the replacement seat posts and forks seem
designed for lower weight, not greater strength.

I'm 6'10"/235lb. I typically ride either MTB's or touring bikes. I've
done lots of fairly extreme off-road riding, including years of pulling
a 100+ lb trailer. I have used 22 in MTB frames and 68cm touring frames.
I prefer (when I can) to use MTB components on my road bikes
(cheaper/stronger).

On my first MTB (12 years ago), I originally used a rigid steel fork,
upgrading after a couple of years to a "downhill" suspension fork. I
reasoned that this might be stronger than a "cross country" fork, since
downhillers don't care about weight. It worked well, never even wore the
bushings after 1,000's of trail miles. I swapped the frame & fork a
couple of years ago for a frame off a $300 mail-order MTB (GT) and a
low-end suspension fork (RS Dart). Those have been fine.

I think you could probably get by with a 22" frame, although you might
be better off with a 24", if you can find one, since it'll require less
seat post extension. I currently use a 425mm post, out all the way to
the minimum insertion mark, something that gives me pause, even at my
weight. A rigid steel fork would probably be the ideal way to go.

Gary Jackson

On Jun 6, 10:02 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:

> I think the most economical solution is an upgraded MTB. At your size, a
> well made MTB should be adequate for road riding since they are designed
> for much more stressful terrain.

I agree.

> My guess is that the typical wheels would be adequate if properly set
> up. Ditto for the cranks, although I wouldn't pedal standing -- just in
> case.

I was planning on leaving those components for the time being. Wheel
spoke failure sounds like it usually isn't catastrophic, so I'll
probably just ride it until something breaks then think about
upgrading the drive train.

> The biggest problem with a stock set up I see would be the seat post and
> fork. The seat post is a concern because you're both tall and heavy, so
> that means a lot of extension with a large load. Aluminum MTB frames
> help here, because the seat tube is usually a larger diameter than most
> other frames, but I'd still be concerned with a stock post. I'd also
> worry about the fork, not only for possible failure, but also that it
> would bottom out just from static load.

Chalo suggests getting a solid bar of 7025 aluminum milled down in to
a seatpost. I suppose this means I need to find a machine shop or
make friends with someone who has a machinist's lathe.

> I think you could probably get by with a 22" frame, although you might
> be better off with a 24", if you can find one, since it'll require less
> seat post extension. I currently use a 425mm post, out all the way to
> the minimum insertion mark, something that gives me pause, even at my
> weight. A rigid steel fork would probably be the ideal way to go.

I've definitely been planning on replacing the fork. I'll probably go
with the Instigator fork, since Surly seems to have a pretty good
reputation.

--
Gary

Tim McNamara

<snip detailed discussion>

Congratulations on wanting to take up bicycling. It's a great way to
get around.

It really shouldn't be that hard to find a bike that would work for you.
At your height, a 62 cm road type frame would work well in terms of
sizing (e.g., the largest Mazama). The frame part is actually pretty
easy, IMHO. The main issues to address would be adequate wheel strength
(I'd go with 48 spoke wheels- wheels for a tandem ought to fill the bill
just fine) and adequate brakes. Chalo is, out of necessity, way more up
on the latter than I am. You'd want wider tires than most road bikes,
too.

In terms of frames, basically what you're looking for is a tandem built
for one. Bob Brown Cycles in St. Paul MN has experience in building
frames for big/tall people.

http://www.bobbrowncycles.com/

He built one for Scott Cutshall, who started riding bike when he weighed
500 pounds.

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyl...h/16782826.html

http://istanbultea.typepad.com/

http://thegearjunkie.com/large-fella-on-a-bike

FWIW, the prototype for the Mazama was built for Rivendell Bicycle
Works, who decided they couldn't produce it but looked for someone who
could- Co-Motion was interested in developing and refining the project.

Rob Lindauer

Gary Jackson wrote:

>
> II. Existing Bicycles Marketed to Large Riders
>

Here's another one for the list - although so far as I can see they
market only in Europe

http://www.cactus10.com/bigboy/bigboy-en.html

--
Rob Lindauer - Please change "att" to "sbc" for my real email address

Michael Press

In article
<a2cfa53a-df6b-4613-aaef-1a09166ef024@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Gary Jackson <bargle@gmail.com> wrote:

> I. Introduction
>
> I am 6'4", 400lbs, and I am looking for a bicycle. I have three main
> reasons riding a bicycle. First, I would like to be able to ride with
> my wife occasionally. She's riding a Specialized Sequoyah that we
> bought last week for her. It was considerably easier to shop for her.
> Second, I would like to run short errands with the bicycle. It seems
> like a terrible waste to start the car just to go to the grocery
> store. Third, I would like to be able to commute with the bike. The
> commute involves a lot of riding on two-lane roads including some
> stretches where there is no shoulder.
>
> I have not been on a bike in about 18 years, so I definitely will not
> be riding my dodgy commuter route until I get in better shape and can
> handle the bicycle proficiently. My last bicycle was some junky
> Wally-World 24" thing with a gear shift that did not work that I used
> until I outgrew it completely. I am a little concerned about getting
> back in the saddle, particularly since my form was never very good in
> the first place.
>
> I've been doing a lot of research to find out what my options are. I
> am working with a particular budget in mind that does not fit too many
> of the things that I am about to list. However, I have included
> them here for reference and comparison purposes. This post is a
> response and update to a post from Chalo Colina to rec.bicycles.misc
> from about a year ago:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec....db61b486b8a06d?
>
> Some of the information has changed in the last year. Some of it is
> the same, but I go in to more detail about the offerings. In
> particular, I have focused my attention on the components that Chalo
> has picked out as important, such as wheels and cranksets. Sometimes
> the information on a vendor's website is not clear. In those cases, I
> have sent mail to them and asked for details or a clarification. I
> also address some other options that were not mentioned in the
> previous post.
>
> Before I get in to the nitty gritty, I need to make a point: I am not
> an expert. As I have stated previously, it has been a very long time
> since I have been on a bicycle. Anything that is written here is done
> because I read it on a web page some where, not from any actual
> practical experience. When you take advice from random people on the
> internet, you take your life and safety in to your own hands. This is
> doubly true in this case because I do not even pretend to know what I
> am talking about. By that same token, if you see some point on which
> I am clearly wrong, please reply so that others will not be mislead by
> my mistake.

Understand from the start that propelling a bicycle is
work. Many people who start out on a bicycle do not take
into account that they are not physically adapted to ride
a bicycle, and become discouraged when they are blindsided
by this aspect. Adapting can take a bit of time: a year
or more. You will adapt and you will be adapting the
bicycle to suit yourself. Biking is fun, and cheap fun too.

In addition to physical challenges one must learn to
control the bicycle while maintaining attention for what
is going on around you; looking at the roadway so as to
avoid debris and obstacles; and plotting your course.

You should add to your list of candidates the cargo bicycle
with long wheel bases and built to carry a rider and cargo
of more than average mass.

<http://www.cargocycling.org/2007/06/bakfiets-two-wh.html>
<http://relocalize.net/yuba_mundo_cargo_bicycle_is_here>
<http://www.davidwilsonindustries.com/gallery/cargo/borracho/index.html>

And there is the Xtracycle kit.

--
Michael Press

Gary Jackson

On Jun 6, 3:07 pm, Tim McNamara <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote:
> <snip detailed discussion>
>
> Congratulations on wanting to take up bicycling. It's a great way to
> get around.

It's looking like it might be a great intellectual hobby as well.
Getting a bike together within my budget will require at least some
tinkering. Fortunately, the University where I work has an open bike
shop with tools and instructors who will teach walk-in people how to
work on their bicycles.

> It really shouldn't be that hard to find a bike that would work for you.
> At your height, a 62 cm road type frame would work well in terms of
> sizing (e.g., the largest Mazama). The frame part is actually pretty
> easy, IMHO. The main issues to address would be adequate wheel strength
> (I'd go with 48 spoke wheels- wheels for a tandem ought to fill the bill
> just fine) and adequate brakes. Chalo is, out of necessity, way more up
> on the latter than I am. You'd want wider tires than most road bikes,
> too.

I wonder out loud if 40 or 48 spokes is enough to make up for the
necessary wheel asymmetry for disc brakes, for my purpose.

> In terms of frames, basically what you're looking for is a tandem built
> for one. Bob Brown Cycles in St. Paul MN has experience in building
> frames for big/tall people.
>
> http://www.bobbrowncycles.com/

<snipped bit about Scott Cutshall>

Good point. I'd read the Star-Tribune article, but somehow Bob Brown
didn't make it in to my notes.

--
Gary

Gary Jackson

On Jun 6, 4:14 pm, Rob Lindauer <rli...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Gary Jackson wrote:
>
> > II. Existing Bicycles Marketed to Large Riders
>
> Here's another one for the list - although so far as I can see they
> market only in Europe
>
> http://www.cactus10.com/bigboy/bigboy-en.html

The page itself is pretty detail-light. The white "Fat Frank" tires
look pretty sweet, though they probably lose a bit of that after
riding around on dirty asphalt. There appears to be some
supplementary material including a price list, but those links are
broken at the moment. I sent them mail to let them know. I've also
asked them if their bicycles are available in the United States.

I should probably send a similar query to Schauff and Utopia Velo.

--
Gary

jim beam

Gary Jackson wrote:
> On Jun 6, 9:18 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> Jasper Janssen wrote:
>>> On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:36:47 -0700, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Gary Jackson wrote:
>>>>> I. Introduction
>>>>> I am 6'4", 400lbs, and I am looking for a bicycle.
>>>> <snip>
>>>> tldr.
>>>> google this group for the experiences of chalo colina. regular
>>>> contributor. big guy. he'll set you straight.
>>> You might have at least skimmed it, even if you were too lazy to read,
>>> which would have prevented you from inserting your foot quite that deep in
>>> your mouth.
>> eh?
>
> He's saying that my post makes it clear that I am aware of Chalo
> Colina and his posts here and in other forums with respect to heavy
> riders. My missive is in large part an expansion and an update to a
> post from Chalo Colina from about a year ago.

"aware of" and "paying attention to" appear to be two different things.