"Pump Peg" Still Usefull?

Michael Press

In article <c068c$48499c36$24406@news.teranews.com>,
A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

> >>> "Colin Campbell" <cmca...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> >>>>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat
> >>>>> anchor and take up shuffleboard.
> >>>> Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion.
> >>>> Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and
> >>>> uses a
> >>>> lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge
> >>>> system?
> >>>> With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to
> >>>> fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was
> >>>> undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons.
> >>>> CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like
> >>>> paying
> >>>> it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's
> >>>> energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they
> >>>> get to
> >>>> eat more goodies!
>
> >> "Lou Holtman" <lholremovet...@oce.nl> wrote:
> >>> When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to
> >>> build
> >>> them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am
> >>> admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to
> >>> him. He
> >>> looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it
> >>> back'.
> >>> 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied.
> >>> 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't
> >>> want that little clit, so we sending it back so they solve that
> >>> problem' he
> >>> said.
> >>> 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the
> >>> Netherlands .
> >>> 'Three months'.
> >>> 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?'
> >>> 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for
> >>> that'.
> >>> Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
> >>> Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
>
> > landotter wrote:
> >> Commitment? Ten minutes with a Dremel cut off disc and a buffing
> >> attachment and that clit's gone. Sounds like a really crap shop to me--
> >> let me guess, they probably don't know how to build a wheel from
> >> scratch either?
>
> Lou Holtman wrote:
> > Who allows even a very competent LBS dremel on a new multi thousand euro
> > custom Ti Seven frame? You must have low quality/aesthetic standards.
> > And boy, you are wrong about the wheels they build.
>
> > landotter wrote:
> >> Three months waiting for the customer because they
> >> don't know how to operate tools? Very lame.
>
> Lou Holtman wrote:
> > It took Seven three months to build and ship that custom frame to the
> > Netherlands. Three weeks return time to get rid of the pump peg and
> > finishing the bike.
>
> I'm with Lou. Shop did the right thing. On custom work, it's either
> right or it is not. Period. We've been in roughly the same position
> ourselves and made the exact same decision.

Do you speak with the customer first?
One case the customer directly specified no pump peg;
another case the option was not discussed.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press

In article <48498f1b$1_5@news4us.nl>,
Lou Holtman <lholditniet@planet.nl> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article <1212734879.931756@news-ext.oce.nl>,
> > "Lou Holtman" <lholremovethis@oce.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> "Colin Campbell" <cmcampb@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> >> news:4848054e$0$5121$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >>>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat
> >>>> anchor and take up shuffleboard.
> >>> Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion.
> >>>
> >>> Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and uses a
> >>> lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system?
> >>>
> >>> With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to
> >>> fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was
> >>> undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons.
> >>>
> >>> CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying
> >>> it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's
> >>> energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to
> >>> eat more goodies!
> >> When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build
> >> them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am
> >> admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He
> >> looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'.
> >> 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied.
> >> 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't
> >> want that little clit, so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he
> >> said.
> >> 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands .
> >> 'Three months'.
> >> 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?'
> >> 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for
> >> that'.
> >> Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
> >>
> >> Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
> >
> > From your report it does not sound as if he asked the customer.
>
> He did. I know that guy.

OK.

>
> > And if that is the case, he mistreating his own customer.
>
> No he didn't. I would have done the same in that case.

But the tone of your report: first words are "Those American morons..."
Now you say everyone involved is a nice guy, but the tone of the
original report is different.

We would need to see every bit of paperwork to understand this.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press

In article <48498f1b$1_5@news4us.nl>,
Lou Holtman <lholditniet@planet.nl> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article <1212734879.931756@news-ext.oce.nl>,
> > "Lou Holtman" <lholremovethis@oce.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> "Colin Campbell" <cmcampb@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> >> news:4848054e$0$5121$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >>>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat
> >>>> anchor and take up shuffleboard.
> >>> Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion.
> >>>
> >>> Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and uses a
> >>> lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system?
> >>>
> >>> With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to
> >>> fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was
> >>> undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons.
> >>>
> >>> CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying
> >>> it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's
> >>> energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to
> >>> eat more goodies!
> >> When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build
> >> them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am
> >> admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He
> >> looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'.
> >> 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied.
> >> 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't
> >> want that little clit, so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he
> >> said.
> >> 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands .
> >> 'Three months'.
> >> 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?'
> >> 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for
> >> that'.
> >> Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
> >>
> >> Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
> >
> > From your report it does not sound as if he asked the customer.
>
> He did. I know that guy.
>
> > And if that is the case, he mistreating his own customer.
>
> No he didn't. I would have done the same in that case.
>
> > And from the tone of your report he is mostly miserable with everybody.
>
> He is a very relaxed guy.
>
> > Really. I admire a piece of equipment in his shop and he starts
> > bitching out of the gate. I cannot do business in that type
> > of atmosphere.
>
> If you don't want to do business with him, he probably don't want
> business with you either. No problem.
> They have the best wrench in the area. The only guy I let service my
> bikes. No piercings or tattoo's ;-)

I said I do not do business in the kind of atmosphere the original
report suggests; not the revised old-world craftsmanship atmosphere.
What is it to you what the "American morons" did unless you share
a prejudice? The welds are still beautiful. And do you really care
about his business problems? I go into a shop with my own problems
and unless they concern the proprietor I keep schtum; I expect him
to return the favor.

--
Michael Press

John Thompson

On 2008-06-06, Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> wrote:

> Carry a tube to replace a punctured tube, a tube to replace
> the buggered up replacement tube, and a third tube for back up.
> Oh, yes, and the patch kit.

Too much work. I just don't get flats. :-)

--

John (john@os2.dhs.org)

Lou Holtman

Michael Press wrote:
> In article <c068c$48499c36$24406@news.teranews.com>,
> A Muzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>>>> "Colin Campbell" <cmca...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat
>>>>>>> anchor and take up shuffleboard.
>>>>>> Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion.
>>>>>> Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and
>>>>>> uses a
>>>>>> lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge
>>>>>> system?
>>>>>> With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to
>>>>>> fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was
>>>>>> undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons.
>>>>>> CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like
>>>>>> paying
>>>>>> it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's
>>>>>> energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they
>>>>>> get to
>>>>>> eat more goodies!
>>>> "Lou Holtman" <lholremovet...@oce.nl> wrote:
>>>>> When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to
>>>>> build
>>>>> them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am
>>>>> admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to
>>>>> him. He
>>>>> looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it
>>>>> back'.
>>>>> 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied.
>>>>> 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't
>>>>> want that little clit, so we sending it back so they solve that
>>>>> problem' he
>>>>> said.
>>>>> 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the
>>>>> Netherlands .
>>>>> 'Three months'.
>>>>> 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?'
>>>>> 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for
>>>>> that'.
>>>>> Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
>>>>> Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
>>> landotter wrote:
>>>> Commitment? Ten minutes with a Dremel cut off disc and a buffing
>>>> attachment and that clit's gone. Sounds like a really crap shop to me--
>>>> let me guess, they probably don't know how to build a wheel from
>>>> scratch either?
>> Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> Who allows even a very competent LBS dremel on a new multi thousand euro
>>> custom Ti Seven frame? You must have low quality/aesthetic standards.
>>> And boy, you are wrong about the wheels they build.
>>> landotter wrote:
>>>> Three months waiting for the customer because they
>>>> don't know how to operate tools? Very lame.
>> Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> It took Seven three months to build and ship that custom frame to the
>>> Netherlands. Three weeks return time to get rid of the pump peg and
>>> finishing the bike.
>> I'm with Lou. Shop did the right thing. On custom work, it's either
>> right or it is not. Period. We've been in roughly the same position
>> ourselves and made the exact same decision.
>
> Do you speak with the customer first?
> One case the customer directly specified no pump peg;

It was. The pumpeg checkbox in the orde form was NOT checked.

Lou

Lou Holtman

Michael Press wrote:
> In article <48498f1b$1_5@news4us.nl>,
> Lou Holtman <lholditniet@planet.nl> wrote:
>
>> Michael Press wrote:
>>> In article <1212734879.931756@news-ext.oce.nl>,
>>> "Lou Holtman" <lholremovethis@oce.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Colin Campbell" <cmcampb@adelphia.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:4848054e$0$5121$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>>> Grow up and use C02 or, better yet, convert your bike into a boat
>>>>>> anchor and take up shuffleboard.
>>>>> Exactly backward reasoning, in my opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would anyone who rides a bike (it's pretty good exercise, and uses a
>>>>> lot of calories, I've heard) want or need to use a CO2 cartridge system?
>>>>>
>>>>> With a pump, you get to use more of your own energy to compress air to
>>>>> fill your tire. With a CO2 cartridge, you are using energy that was
>>>>> undoubtedly produced by burning hydrocarbons.
>>>>>
>>>>> CO2 may be faster, but there's a big price for that. If you like paying
>>>>> it, go ahead. But "real cyclists" are out there conserving the world's
>>>>> energy resources by using their own energy, and as a reward, they get to
>>>>> eat more goodies!
>>>> When I visit my LBS I always look at the frames waiting for parts to build
>>>> them up in their display cabinet (they only do build ups). One day I am
>>>> admiring a custom made titanium Seven. 'Very nice welds' I said to him. He
>>>> looked over his glasses behind his desk and said 'we are sending it back'.
>>>> 'Why?' I asked. 'Those American morons welded a pumppeg on', he replied.
>>>> 'So?' I asked. 'We ordered a custom frame for the customer and he didn't
>>>> want that little clit, so we sending it back so they solve that problem' he
>>>> said.
>>>> 'How long did you wait for that frame?', since we live in the Netherlands .
>>>> 'Three months'.
>>>> 'Isn't it a long time to wait maybe another three months?'
>>>> 'That doesn't matter, custom, is custom and the customer is paying for
>>>> that'.
>>>> Three weeks later I was admiring a build up Seven with no pumppeg....
>>>>
>>>> Hé, how about that commitment? I like those guys.
>>> From your report it does not sound as if he asked the customer.
>> He did. I know that guy.
>
> OK.
>
>>> And if that is the case, he mistreating his own customer.
>> No he didn't. I would have done the same in that case.
>
> But the tone of your report: first words are "Those American morons..."
> Now you say everyone involved is a nice guy, but the tone of the
> original report is different.

The guy was pissed at that moment, you can understand that can't you? I
would and if you are pissed you say stupid things sometimes. He would
not say that to a complete stranger of course. I'm am a good customer there.


> We would need to see every bit of paperwork to understand this.

No it isn't that important. Like I sain it was just an anecdote.

Lou