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11-06.-2008, 01:17 PM
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#91 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
hizark21 wrote:
> On Jun 9, 10:23 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@zoo.com> wrote: > >>Bob Schwartz wrote: >> >>>John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: >> >>>>On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:56:58 -0700 (PDT),hizark21<hizar...@yahoo.com> >>>>wrote: >> >>>>>ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/ >>>>>news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ). >> >>>>>It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter >>>>>the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana >>>>>to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring >>>>>team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF. >> >>>>I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it. >>>>They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals. >>>>It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get >>>>into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In >>>>fact, it would probably hurt. >> >>>Indeed. Astana has pissed in the Tour's soup twice now. >>>They've earned this. >> >>>Bob Schwartz >> >>Bruyneel's little stunt with Basshole didn't help either. Nor did >>Lance's 6 positive tests for EPO back in 1999. >> > > I partially agree with you that Basso damaged Astana's reputation. As > for Lance you know as well as I do that he was cleared of the doping > charges. First of all he was never "charged." And he was never "cleared" of the EPO positives from 1999. Magilla |
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11-06.-2008, 01:20 PM
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#92 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
hizark21 wrote:
> On Jun 9, 10:48 pm, MagillaGorilla <magi...@zoo.com> wrote: > >>hizark21wrote: >> >>>I am not necessarily opposed to ASO's decision to decide what teams >>>are in their races. If ASO decides to become a private series of races >>>then they need to come up with a uniform standard method for allowing >>>teams or excluding them. ASO also needs to publish their procedures >>>for choosing teams as well. >> >>Hey dumbass, >> >>In an invitation race, there doesn't have to be any kind of standard. >>Where do you come up with this stuff? >> >>The ASO doesn't owe anyone an explanation. They can do whatever they want. > > > Yes, but the problem is that ASO want's things both ways. The ASO is > associating is having riders paying fines to the FFC. Yet the FFC is a > member of UCI. So in other words the ASO is working with a member of > the UCI, but wants none of the rules. The other issue is that the FFC > is choosing to selectively abide by UCI rules it chooses. > >>Magilla > Hey dumbass, Most NRC races don't follow UCI rules either even though USA Cycling - like the FFC - is "member of the UCI." The FFC is not under any obligation to sanction races through the UCI. What rules are the FFC violating by sanctioning the Tour de France? Wouldn't USAC be violating those same UCI rules when they sanction a race like Redlands? You need to think before you post. Both you and McQualude. Magilla |
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11-06.-2008, 05:13 PM
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#93 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
MagillaGorilla wrote:
> You sound like one of Fraud's lawyers. Why don't you go donate to his > "fairness" foundation? I assume SchwarzSoft must have opensourced the Tom9000 Strawman module. |
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11-06.-2008, 10:06 PM
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#94 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Hey dumbass, > > Most NRC races don't follow UCI rules either even though USA Cycling - > like the FFC - is "member of the UCI." Dumbass, They don't? Bob Schwartz |
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11-06.-2008, 10:08 PM
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#95 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Donald Munro wrote: >> If the test results can't be reproduced anywhere else then its just as >> valid as cold fusion. > > > You sound like one of Fraud's lawyers. Why don't you go donate to his > "fairness" foundation? So you are saying that lab mistakes don't happen, and athletes that come up positive are always guilty, right? Bob Schwartz |
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11-06.-2008, 10:44 PM
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#96 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
Bob Schwartz wrote:
> MagillaGorilla wrote: > >> Hey dumbass, >> >> Most NRC races don't follow UCI rules either even though USA Cycling - >> like the FFC - is "member of the UCI." > > > Dumbass, > > They don't? > > Bob Schwartz No, they don't. They follow USCF rules. Ever hear of the USCF rulebook? If you haven't, then you should change your name to Shawn Farrell or become a USCF official. Because you are qualified based on your post. Magilla |
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11-06.-2008, 10:52 PM
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#97 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote: >> So you are saying that lab mistakes don't happen, and >> athletes that come up positive are always guilty, right? >> >> Bob Schwartz > > > Lab mistakes do happen, but for the most part they don't matter. I > don't believe a single cyclist has been found guilty who hasn't doped. > Including Fraud. Including Moninger? Bob Schwartz |
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11-06.-2008, 11:15 PM
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#98 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote: > >> MagillaGorilla wrote: >> >>> Hey dumbass, >>> >>> Most NRC races don't follow UCI rules either even though USA Cycling >>> - like the FFC - is "member of the UCI." >> >> >> Dumbass, >> >> They don't? >> >> Bob Schwartz > > > No, they don't. They follow USCF rules. Ever hear of the USCF > rulebook? If you haven't, then you should change your name to Shawn > Farrell or become a USCF official. > > Because you are qualified based on your post. Dumbass, Are there any clauses in the USCF rulebook referencing UCI rules? Bob Schwartz |
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12-06.-2008, 01:35 AM
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#99 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote: >> MagillaGorilla wrote: >> >>> Bob Schwartz wrote: >>> >>>> So you are saying that lab mistakes don't happen, and >>>> athletes that come up positive are always guilty, right? >>>> >>>> Bob Schwartz >>> >>> >>> >>> Lab mistakes do happen, but for the most part they don't matter. I >>> don't believe a single cyclist has been found guilty who hasn't >>> doped. Including Fraud. >> >> >> Including Moninger? >> >> Bob Schwartz > > > Moninger's case was a case of contaminated supplements. That has > nothing to do with lab tests being in error. > > There was nothing wrong with the lab test in Moninger's case (or Neben's > case for that matter). > > Why is it that you people have such a complete lack of knowledge for the > facts and details and all your arguments come off like some layperson > talking about the Theory of Relativity? So you are saying that there was nothing wrong with the lab test that found that the supplements weren't contaminated? Which brings us back to Magilla's Rule that all guilty cyclists doped? Is there a corollary that exempts cyclists that Magilla likes? Bob Schwartz |
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12-06.-2008, 01:52 AM
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#100 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
Bob Schwartz wrote:
> MagillaGorilla wrote: > >> Bob Schwartz wrote: >> >>> MagillaGorilla wrote: >>> >>>> Bob Schwartz wrote: >>>> >>>>> So you are saying that lab mistakes don't happen, and >>>>> athletes that come up positive are always guilty, right? >>>>> >>>>> Bob Schwartz >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lab mistakes do happen, but for the most part they don't matter. I >>>> don't believe a single cyclist has been found guilty who hasn't >>>> doped. Including Fraud. >>> >>> >>> >>> Including Moninger? >>> >>> Bob Schwartz >> >> >> >> Moninger's case was a case of contaminated supplements. That has >> nothing to do with lab tests being in error. >> >> There was nothing wrong with the lab test in Moninger's case (or >> Neben's case for that matter). >> >> Why is it that you people have such a complete lack of knowledge for >> the facts and details and all your arguments come off like some >> layperson talking about the Theory of Relativity? > > > So you are saying that there was nothing wrong > with the lab test that found that the supplements > weren't contaminated? Dude, Not even Moninger thinks there was anything wrong with the UCLA lab testing in his case. Magilla |
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12-06.-2008, 03:33 AM
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#101 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Your inability to admit that you're wrong, even when it's in black and > white Doesn't that ring a bell ? |
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12-06.-2008, 03:35 AM
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#102 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
Donald Munro wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote: >> Your inability to admit that you're wrong, even when it's in black and >> white > > Doesn't that ring a bell ? > I never should of open sourced him. Bob Schwartz |
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12-06.-2008, 03:57 AM
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#103 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
MagillaGorilla wrote:
> Ever see an official's communique from an NRC race? They cite > violations of USCF rules and level fines accordingly. Where do they get the schedule of fines? It's in the rulebook, you could check if you wanted. Bob Schwartz |
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12-06.-2008, 10:27 PM
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#104 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
Off The Back wrote:
> Re this NRC-vs-UCI discussion: I know that USA Cycling has changed a > bunch of USCF rules to align better with UCI rules (e.g., TT bikes must > conform to UCI rules), but that doesn't mean an NRC race follows *all* > UCI rules. I'm pretty sure you could find something in the UCI rulebook > that is not enforced by your local NRC crit, for example, or even Nature > Valley GP (which is underway as I type this). Besides, they don't let > hacks like me ride in a UCI event but I can ride an NRC race. > > I think Magilla is technically correct. Bob is playing a semantics game, > teasing a gorrila in his cage, and I for one appreciate it! The statement was made that NRC races do not follow UCI rules. They do. No, not all of them. But there are numerous references to UCI rules. For example, one of the guys working the NVGP has a UCI bike jig, used to quickly and easily tell if a bike conforms to the UCI bike regs, as specified in the USCF rulebook. Bob Schwartz |
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12-06.-2008, 11:32 PM
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#105 |
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Re: ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Off The Back wrote: > >> Re this NRC-vs-UCI discussion: I know that USA Cycling has changed a >> bunch of USCF rules to align better with UCI rules (e.g., TT bikes >> must conform to UCI rules), but that doesn't mean an NRC race follows >> *all* UCI rules. I'm pretty sure you could find something in the UCI >> rulebook that is not enforced by your local NRC crit, for example, or >> even Nature Valley GP (which is underway as I type this). Besides, >> they don't let hacks like me ride in a UCI event but I can ride an NRC >> race. >> >> I think Magilla is technically correct. Bob is playing a semantics >> game, teasing a gorrila in his cage, and I for one appreciate it! > > > The statement was made that NRC races do not follow UCI > rules. They do. No, not all of them. But there are numerous > references to UCI rules. > > For example, one of the guys working the NVGP has a UCI > bike jig, used to quickly and easily tell if a bike conforms > to the UCI bike regs, as specified in the USCF rulebook. > > Bob Schwartz Hey asshat, The NRC rule for bikes is a USCF rule that simply says that bike standards will conform to the UCI definition. That's still a USCF rule. All NRC races are run under USCF rules. The fact that a very small minority of those rules MIGHT adopt a UCI definition does not make it a UCI rule. Nor does it mean that NRC races are run under UCI rules, as you falsely claimed. Thanks, Magilla |
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