ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com

On Jun 4, 10:28*am, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 4, 7:56*am, hizark21 <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> > news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> > It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> > the TDF. *The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> > to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> > team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> I would assume that ASO would argue that the good showing of Astana
> proves that they're doping. That's the type of reasoning you're seeing
> from the ASO management.

Well, they were on vacation a week before the start and came there and
kicked ass..'if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck'. Bruyneel and
Contador is the problem, Astana has nothing to do with it. Vino was
never a contender.

>
> Any argument about Astana ticking ASO off is specious, as Astana has
> the right to participate, as a pro tour team. Even before the Pro
> Tour, the top 15 rated teams were guaranteed a spot in the Tour de
> France. Just another reason why the UCI is a necessary evil.
>
> -ilan

John Forrest Tomlinson

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:09:22 -0700, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote:

>The randomized controls found Rasmussen didn't they?

No.

ilanpsi@gmail.com

On Jun 4, 1:36*pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
> On Jun 3, 11:56*pm, hizark21 <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> > news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> > It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> > the TDF. *The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> > to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> > team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> Altho weird, as long as Bruyneel and Contador(true yellow jersey
> contender but cloudy relationship with Operation Puerto, true or not)
> are with Astana, ASO isn't going to let them in. ASO doesn't like
> Bruyneel and the last thing ASO wants is another doping scandal with
> the yellow jersey.

No, with Contador and Bruyneel, the thing that worries ASO is another
string of 7 consecutive victories.

-ilan

Kyle Legate

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> saying? That they're going to specifically target certain athletes because
> of what happened last year, instead of randomized controls? I don't get it.
> The randomized controls found Rasmussen didn't they? And Vino? And
> Keschekin? But the fact that those guys were doping and caught is an
> indication that doping controls aren't working?
>
After Vino's positive, I highly doubt that Kaschekin's test was 'random'.

Mike Jacoubowsky

> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> The randomized controls found Rasmussen didn't
>> they?
>
> No.

My bad, I know that. Rasmussen was kicked out due to his phony whereabouts.
Doh.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky

> I would assume that ASO would argue that the good showing of Astana
> proves that they're doping. That's the type of reasoning you're seeing
> from the ASO management.

>> Well, they were on vacation a week before the start and came there and
>> kicked ass..'if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck'. Bruyneel and
>> Contador is the problem, Astana has nothing to do with it. Vino was
>> never a contender.

So the only way to prove you're clean is to lose convincingly? We know 2nd
place isn't enough (Zabel in his past life).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <peter@vecchios.com> wrote in
message
news:7f7eee78-e7a6-488a-8eea-b68ff0be3ae1@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 4, 10:28 am, ilan...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jun 4, 7:56 am, hizark21 <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> > news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> > It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> > the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> > to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> > team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> I would assume that ASO would argue that the good showing of Astana
> proves that they're doping. That's the type of reasoning you're seeing
> from the ASO management.

Well, they were on vacation a week before the start and came there and
kicked ass..'if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck'. Bruyneel and
Contador is the problem, Astana has nothing to do with it. Vino was
never a contender.

>
> Any argument about Astana ticking ASO off is specious, as Astana has
> the right to participate, as a pro tour team. Even before the Pro
> Tour, the top 15 rated teams were guaranteed a spot in the Tour de
> France. Just another reason why the UCI is a necessary evil.
>
> -ilan

Tom Kunich

"hizark21" <hizark21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6f1c0d23-0904-4a9d-8084-efea49fe1f1c@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

The Tour de France this year is one of the "Asterisk" races where the winner
will only be the winner because his real competition isn't there.

Victor Kan

On Jun 4, 2:14 pm, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
...
> Bruyneel and Contador is the problem, Astana has nothing to do with it. '

Do you mean Bruyneel and Contador together are the problem, or each
individually are problems?

ASO says Contador by himself is not a problem:

http://velonews.com/article/77008/c...eep-with-vuelta

“We have nothing against Contador, but rather against the team’s
repeated errors,” Tour director Christian Prudhomme told the Spanish
wire service, EFE. “If Astana doesn’t have any problems in 2008, we
would take a different decision for the next edition of the Tour de
France.”

Michael Press

In article <ujx1k.680$L_.1@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:

> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> > On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:56:58 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <hizark21@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> >> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
> >>
> >> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> >> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> >> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> >> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
> >
> > I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
> > They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
> > It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
> > into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
> > fact, it would probably hurt.
>
> Indeed. Astana has pissed in the Tour's soup twice now.
> They've earned this.

ASO looks like the bad guy now.
They could invite Astana. The team
they replace could be recompensed.
Astana is hurt by their exclusion:
no exposure in the most widely seen
bicycle race. Astana takes the Vuelta.

--
Michael Press

dave a

Michael Press wrote:
> In article <ujx1k.680$L_.1@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> Bob Schwartz <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>>> On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:56:58 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <hizark21@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
>>>> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>>>>
>>>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>>>> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>>>> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
>>>> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>>> I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
>>> They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
>>> It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
>>> into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
>>> fact, it would probably hurt.
>> Indeed. Astana has pissed in the Tour's soup twice now.
>> They've earned this.
>
> ASO looks like the bad guy now.
> They could invite Astana. The team
> they replace could be recompensed.
> Astana is hurt by their exclusion:
> no exposure in the most widely seen
> bicycle race. Astana takes the Vuelta.
>

On the other hand, I suspect that one of the top stories during the TdF
will be the exclusion of Astana. That's still exposure.

Heck, if I were JB and ASO invited Astana at this point, I'd say "no
thanks, we only race the really competitive tours".

/dave a

Carl Sundquist

"dave a" <blkcatREMOVETHIS@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:g27a4402m0k@news3.newsguy.com...
>>
>> ASO looks like the bad guy now. They could invite Astana. The team
>> they replace could be recompensed.
>> Astana is hurt by their exclusion: no exposure in the most widely seen
>> bicycle race. Astana takes the Vuelta.
>>
>
> On the other hand, I suspect that one of the top stories during the TdF
> will be the exclusion of Astana. That's still exposure.
>

It's exposure, but it's minimal and it's not visual. If that type of
exposure was significantly beneficial, Unibet would still be around this
season as a sponsor.

Mike Jacoubowsky

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:nvGdnZ6ty9pZhNrVnZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@earthlink.com...
> "hizark21" <hizark21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6f1c0d23-0904-4a9d-8084-efea49fe1f1c@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
>> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>>
>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
>> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> The Tour de France this year is one of the "Asterisk" races where the
> winner will only be the winner because his real competition isn't there.

For that to happen it would take a guy like Cadel Evans to that he won't be
racing the TdF this year because, given the reduced stature of the event
without last year's winner, he would be better off sitting it out and
targeting the Olympic road race instead. I don't think that's likely to
happen.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

dave a

Carl Sundquist wrote:
>
> "dave a" <blkcatREMOVETHIS@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:g27a4402m0k@news3.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> ASO looks like the bad guy now. They could invite Astana. The team
>>> they replace could be recompensed.
>>> Astana is hurt by their exclusion: no exposure in the most widely
>>> seen bicycle race. Astana takes the Vuelta.
>>>
>>
>> On the other hand, I suspect that one of the top stories during the
>> TdF will be the exclusion of Astana. That's still exposure.
>>
>
> It's exposure, but it's minimal and it's not visual. If that type of
> exposure was significantly beneficial, Unibet would still be around this
> season as a sponsor.

Unibet didn't win the Giro last year...

/dave a

Carl Sundquist

"dave a" <blkcatREMOVETHIS@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:g27bmk01rq8@news5.newsguy.com...
> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>>
>> "dave a" <blkcatREMOVETHIS@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:g27a4402m0k@news3.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> ASO looks like the bad guy now. They could invite Astana. The team
>>>> they replace could be recompensed.
>>>> Astana is hurt by their exclusion: no exposure in the most widely seen
>>>> bicycle race. Astana takes the Vuelta.
>>>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I suspect that one of the top stories during the TdF
>>> will be the exclusion of Astana. That's still exposure.
>>>
>>
>> It's exposure, but it's minimal and it's not visual. If that type of
>> exposure was significantly beneficial, Unibet would still be around this
>> season as a sponsor.
>
> Unibet didn't win the Giro last year...
>
> /dave a

You're right. How big was the Basso story last year during the Tour? Did it
sustain itself as a top story for all three weeks?