What do you carry in your toolkit?

Ben C

On 2008-06-06, bjw@mambo.ucolick.org <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> On Jun 5, 7:13*pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
>> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>> > Per John Forrest Tomlinson:
>> >> Because the odds of having the road rash are so low.
>>
>> >> You could fall and get an infection in other situations. *Do you
>> >> carry the kit off the bike too?
>>
[...]
> Keep a bottle of hydrogen peroxide at home. It stings,
> but far less badly than rubbing alcohol. It's cheap at
> any drugstore. We used to bring it as part of the first
> aid kit at MTB and CX races, where scrapes and dirt
> are expected.
>
> Hydrogen peroxide and alcohol are not great
> disinfectants, but hydrogen peroxide is moderately
> effective for cleaning wounds. If you're really worried
> about this, you can follow up with an antibiotic cream.
> IMO, overuse of antibiotics is worse than the occasional
> scrape.

Do you get antibiotic creams or do you mean antiseptic? The problem with
them is that the half-used jar of gunge that's been in the medicine
cupboard for ten years is effectively a petri dish of agar sustaining
all kinds of nasties better not rubbed into your wounds.

I think it's usually from very deep cuts that you're at risk from
horrible infections. Road rash usually isn't very deep. In hospital
(here anyway) they just clean it with salt water and tell you to come
back if it looks like it's oozing or anything.

> If you get road rash, dressing it with Tegaderm or
> equivalent (semipermeable clear bandage - small
> ones about 3x4" are available at drugstores) will
> keep the wound moist and prevent scabbing. This
> heals more quickly and less painfully.

Do you want to prevent scabbing? What sometimes happens is the road
removes basically your whole face. Pretty soon scabs appear all over it
and you look a bit like Freddy Krueger for a while. Then they fall off
to miraculously reveal a brand new face underneath. Why interfere with
this process?

John Forrest Tomlinson

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 19:13:01 -0700, "Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me>
wrote:

>(PeteCresswell) wrote:
>> Per John Forrest Tomlinson:
>>> Because the odds of having the road rash are so low.
>>>
>>> You could fall and get an infection in other situations. Do you
>>> carry the kit off the bike too?
>>
>> Am I the only one that's heard of people getting into serious
>> trouble (as in loss of a leg) from "flesh-eating bacteria", aka
>> "necrotizing faciatitis"? Or from antibiotic-resistant staph?
>>
>> Maybe actual "road" rash - from falling on pavement - is rare;
>> but riding off road, I've had my share (maybe a little more than
>> my share) of fairly-impressive gashes and punctures... as in
>> several per year.
>
>Who's smoking what around here? If you fall on the road going fairly fast
>(as I did one week ago), you're going to get road rash.

The point is that falling on the road is (or should be) rare. Not
that, when it happens, it can't hurt/results in a lot of cuts/rash
etc. It's putting the odds fo the event happening into our calculus,
and not just the consequences of if it does happen.

Ryan Cousineau

In article <slrng4i16c.ued.spamspam@bowser.marioworld>,
Ben C <spamspam@spam.eggs> wrote:

> On 2008-06-06, bjw@mambo.ucolick.org <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> > On Jun 5, 7:13*pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> >> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> >> > Per John Forrest Tomlinson:
> >> >> Because the odds of having the road rash are so low.
> >>
> >> >> You could fall and get an infection in other situations. *Do you
> >> >> carry the kit off the bike too?
> >>
> [...]
> > Keep a bottle of hydrogen peroxide at home. It stings,
> > but far less badly than rubbing alcohol. It's cheap at
> > any drugstore. We used to bring it as part of the first
> > aid kit at MTB and CX races, where scrapes and dirt
> > are expected.
> >
> > Hydrogen peroxide and alcohol are not great
> > disinfectants, but hydrogen peroxide is moderately
> > effective for cleaning wounds. If you're really worried
> > about this, you can follow up with an antibiotic cream.
> > IMO, overuse of antibiotics is worse than the occasional
> > scrape.
>
> Do you get antibiotic creams or do you mean antiseptic? The problem with
> them is that the half-used jar of gunge that's been in the medicine
> cupboard for ten years is effectively a petri dish of agar sustaining
> all kinds of nasties better not rubbed into your wounds.
>
> I think it's usually from very deep cuts that you're at risk from
> horrible infections. Road rash usually isn't very deep. In hospital
> (here anyway) they just clean it with salt water and tell you to come
> back if it looks like it's oozing or anything.
>
> > If you get road rash, dressing it with Tegaderm or
> > equivalent (semipermeable clear bandage - small
> > ones about 3x4" are available at drugstores) will
> > keep the wound moist and prevent scabbing. This
> > heals more quickly and less painfully.
>
> Do you want to prevent scabbing? What sometimes happens is the road
> removes basically your whole face. Pretty soon scabs appear all over it
> and you look a bit like Freddy Krueger for a while. Then they fall off
> to miraculously reveal a brand new face underneath. Why interfere with
> this process?

Because the current medical wisdom on wound care says you get less
scarring and faster healing if you keep the wound dressed and moistened
and don't let scabs form.

<http://www.intermed.med.uottawa.ca/procedures/wc/e_treatment.htm#c7>

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Ben C

On 2008-06-06, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <slrng4i16c.ued.spamspam@bowser.marioworld>,
> Ben C <spamspam@spam.eggs> wrote:
[...]
>> Do you want to prevent scabbing? What sometimes happens is the road
>> removes basically your whole face. Pretty soon scabs appear all over it
>> and you look a bit like Freddy Krueger for a while. Then they fall off
>> to miraculously reveal a brand new face underneath. Why interfere with
>> this process?
>
> Because the current medical wisdom on wound care says you get less
> scarring and faster healing if you keep the wound dressed and moistened
> and don't let scabs form.
>
><http://www.intermed.med.uottawa.ca/procedures/wc/e_treatment.htm#c7>

Where does it say that? It says not too wet and not too dry is good.
Then a bit further down it says "the repaired laceration should be kept
clean and dry".

It seems to be saying that if you've put stitches or staples in you
should keep the wound covered up for 1-2 days, but not after that.

Michael Press

In article <slrng4i16c.ued.spamspam@bowser.marioworld>,
Ben C <spamspam@spam.eggs> wrote:

> On 2008-06-06, bjw@mambo.ucolick.org <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote:
> > On Jun 5, 7:13*pm, "Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> >> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> >> > Per John Forrest Tomlinson:
> >> >> Because the odds of having the road rash are so low.
> >>
> >> >> You could fall and get an infection in other situations. *Do you
> >> >> carry the kit off the bike too?
> >>
> [...]
> > Keep a bottle of hydrogen peroxide at home. It stings,
> > but far less badly than rubbing alcohol. It's cheap at
> > any drugstore. We used to bring it as part of the first
> > aid kit at MTB and CX races, where scrapes and dirt
> > are expected.
> >
> > Hydrogen peroxide and alcohol are not great
> > disinfectants, but hydrogen peroxide is moderately
> > effective for cleaning wounds. If you're really worried
> > about this, you can follow up with an antibiotic cream.
> > IMO, overuse of antibiotics is worse than the occasional
> > scrape.
>
> Do you get antibiotic creams or do you mean antiseptic? The problem with
> them is that the half-used jar of gunge that's been in the medicine
> cupboard for ten years is effectively a petri dish of agar sustaining
> all kinds of nasties better not rubbed into your wounds.
>
> I think it's usually from very deep cuts that you're at risk from
> horrible infections. Road rash usually isn't very deep. In hospital
> (here anyway) they just clean it with salt water and tell you to come
> back if it looks like it's oozing or anything.
>
> > If you get road rash, dressing it with Tegaderm or
> > equivalent (semipermeable clear bandage - small
> > ones about 3x4" are available at drugstores) will
> > keep the wound moist and prevent scabbing. This
> > heals more quickly and less painfully.
>
> Do you want to prevent scabbing? What sometimes happens is the road
> removes basically your whole face. Pretty soon scabs appear all over it
> and you look a bit like Freddy Krueger for a while. Then they fall off
> to miraculously reveal a brand new face underneath. Why interfere with
> this process?

Less scarring when the wound is kept moist while the wound heals.
Do the experiment. Get some Tegaderm to have at hand next time.
You have never seen a wound heal through a window.

--
Michael Press

Tim McNamara

In article <48489d35$0$4255$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Bill Sornson" <askme@ask.me> wrote:

> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> > Per John Forrest Tomlinson:
> >> Because the odds of having the road rash are so low.
> >>
> >> You could fall and get an infection in other situations. Do you
> >> carry the kit off the bike too?
> >
> > Am I the only one that's heard of people getting into serious
> > trouble (as in loss of a leg) from "flesh-eating bacteria", aka
> > "necrotizing faciatitis"? Or from antibiotic-resistant staph?
> >
> > Maybe actual "road" rash - from falling on pavement - is rare; but
> > riding off road, I've had my share (maybe a little more than my
> > share) of fairly-impressive gashes and punctures... as in several
> > per year.
>
> Who's smoking what around here?

Always an apropos question.

> If you fall on the road going fairly fast (as I did one week ago),
> you're going to get road rash. I took a high-speed (40 mph) fall on
> a turning descent, and /only/ got rash (scrapes and abrasions) on my
> right knee, hip, both elbows, left wrist, left hand (minor), and the
> worst was a severe contusion to my right shoulder (torn ligaments if
> not labrum or rotator cuff).

Ouch.

> I used rubbing alcohol (THAT felt good) when I got home and never
> dressed the wounds at all. Also have a hot tub with chlorine.

Oucher.

> I suppose it's conceivable that some nasties could get in there, but
> I've never worried about 'em and so far so good.

Nah, you done killed 'em good and proper.

> Bill "hoping to try first ride back tomorrow" S.

Good luck!

TBerk

On Jun 3, 11:33*am, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Tom Berk wrote:
> > And Sunday night, on the way to the movies, I ran over a NAIL, an
> > actual nail in the rear tire.
> > Glass, yes. *Thorns, yes, but a Nail? *And coming down an overpass
> > at speed too. Good thing it wasn't the front (oh wait, the front is
> > that Kevlar tire....)
>
> That was because nails can't puncture front tires except when closely
> following another wheel. *Nails lie flat on the road until they are
> tilted up by a rolling tire. *If you see an unavoidable mess of nails
> on a road (not tacks that stand on end), just ride slowly. *Nails
> don't balance well on end.
>

yeah, it was about 3/4 or anch long; not a framing nail by anymeans.
But one thing- it was bent also.

>
> I often pick up nails and dump them in a safe place when stopped at
> intersections with debris piles where cars rarely travel. *These piles
> also contain coins and tools at times.
>
> Jobst Brandt


Yep, I do the same.

btw- after getting the bike back home I went to patch the hole and
founf my ride down the hill (at speed mind you) tore the stem all to
hell. No patching that really. It was a good thorn resistant tube too.


TBerk

TBerk

On Jun 2, 5:42*pm, "Saudade" <saudad...@nospamme.yahoo.com> wrote:


>
> A picture's worth a thousand words.
<snip>
> http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k...nivega_0095.jpg


Why so many wrenches? Looks like a Crescent (adjustable) wrench would
replace most of them.


TBerk

Ryan Cousineau

In article <slrng4ip3t.ued.spamspam@bowser.marioworld>,
Ben C <spamspam@spam.eggs> wrote:

> On 2008-06-06, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <slrng4i16c.ued.spamspam@bowser.marioworld>,
> > Ben C <spamspam@spam.eggs> wrote:
> [...]
> >> Do you want to prevent scabbing? What sometimes happens is the road
> >> removes basically your whole face. Pretty soon scabs appear all over it
> >> and you look a bit like Freddy Krueger for a while. Then they fall off
> >> to miraculously reveal a brand new face underneath. Why interfere with
> >> this process?
> >
> > Because the current medical wisdom on wound care says you get less
> > scarring and faster healing if you keep the wound dressed and moistened
> > and don't let scabs form.
> >
> ><http://www.intermed.med.uottawa.ca/procedures/wc/e_treatment.htm#c7>
>
> Where does it say that? It says not too wet and not too dry is good.
> Then a bit further down it says "the repaired laceration should be kept
> clean and dry".
>
> It seems to be saying that if you've put stitches or staples in you
> should keep the wound covered up for 1-2 days, but not after that.

Well, from my own experience, if you use Polysporin under a bandage, you
get a wound that doesn't form a scab, it just grows new skin.

A scab is just clotted blood on the top of the skin. The first step in
that wound care guide I found was stopping the bleeding. Basically, if
you minimize the blood that forms on the surface of the skin, you're not
going to get what you would call a scab. If you keep it under a topical
ointment and put a bandage over it, all you'll get is skin growing back,
with no red-brown scab cover to speak of.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Tom Berk wrote:

>>> And Sunday night, on the way to the movies, I ran over a NAIL, an
>>> actual nail in the rear tire. Glass, yes. Â*Thorns, yes, but a
>>> Nail? Â*And coming down an overpass at speed too. Good thing it
>>> wasn't the front (oh wait, the front is that Kevlar tire....)

>> That was because nails can't puncture front tires except when
>> closely following another wheel. Â*Nails lie flat on the road until
>> they are tilted up by a rolling tire. Â*If you see an unavoidable
>> mess of nails on a road (not tacks that stand on end), just ride
>> slowly. Â*Nails don't balance well on end.

> yeah, it was about 3/4 or inch long; not a framing nail by any means.
> But one thing- it was bent also.

Just the same, it's pointed end was probably not aimed upward.

>> I often pick up nails and dump them in a safe place when stopped at
>> intersections with debris piles where cars rarely travel. Â*These
>> piles also contain coins and tools at times.

> Yep, I do the same.

> btw- after getting the bike back home I went to patch the hole and
> found my ride down the hill (at speed mind you) tore the stem all to
> hell. No patching that really. It was a good thorn resistant tube
> too.

That's something to remember. Flat clinchers or tubular tires after
heavy braking, precess around the rim, just as pie dough advances
across the table when using a rolling pin in one direction only.

Jobst Brandt

(PeteCresswell)

Per Ben C:
>I think it's usually from very deep cuts that you're at risk from
>horrible infections. Road rash usually isn't very deep.

Dunno about "horrible" but the thing that laid me up for a couple
weeks in Hawaii was from simple abrasion on the back of my thumb.
Maybe 3/4" wide - from sand paper.

My take is that any cut/abrasion/puncture I get I'm gonna clean
it out.

Given there's a chance (albeit small) of some real nasties being
in said cut/abrasion/puncture I might as well clean and disinfect
it properly on the spot.

Seems like a wash (no pun intended) time-wise and a small
reduction in risk.
--
PeteCresswell

Tom Kunich

"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:9amj449d16jd6mspi0jtdq9p1lqoivdrcp@4ax.com...
>
> My take is that any cut/abrasion/puncture I get I'm gonna clean
> it out.
>
> Given there's a chance (albeit small) of some real nasties being
> in said cut/abrasion/puncture I might as well clean and disinfect
> it properly on the spot.
>
> Seems like a wash (no pun intended) time-wise and a small
> reduction in risk.

What business is it of anyone else's Pete?

Patrick Lamb

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:44:26 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid>
wrote:

>Per Ben C:
>>I think it's usually from very deep cuts that you're at risk from
>>horrible infections. Road rash usually isn't very deep.
>
>Dunno about "horrible" but the thing that laid me up for a couple
>weeks in Hawaii was from simple abrasion on the back of my thumb.
>Maybe 3/4" wide - from sand paper.

The guy I knew who got MRSA apparently caught it from a scratch so
small he never noticed it.

>My take is that any cut/abrasion/puncture I get I'm gonna clean
>it out.
>
>Given there's a chance (albeit small) of some real nasties being
>in said cut/abrasion/puncture I might as well clean and disinfect
>it properly on the spot.

And stay out of hospitals -- they're full of such things.

Pat

Email address works as is.

Michael Press

In article <9amj449d16jd6mspi0jtdq9p1lqoivdrcp@4ax.com>,
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote:

> Per Ben C:
> >I think it's usually from very deep cuts that you're at risk from
> >horrible infections. Road rash usually isn't very deep.
>
> Dunno about "horrible" but the thing that laid me up for a couple
> weeks in Hawaii was from simple abrasion on the back of my thumb.
> Maybe 3/4" wide - from sand paper.
>
> My take is that any cut/abrasion/puncture I get I'm gonna clean
> it out.
>
> Given there's a chance (albeit small) of some real nasties being
> in said cut/abrasion/puncture I might as well clean and disinfect
> it properly on the spot.
>
> Seems like a wash (no pun intended) time-wise and a small
> reduction in risk.

The deal is that we are accustomed to the fauna in our own
neck of the woods. A new place has critters that jump
you out of dark alleyways and tear out a chunk of flesh.

I moved from Detroit to Boston, and got an abrasion.
I never dressed abrasions before, and did not then.
It scabbed over, but was slow to heal; and eventually
started leaking pus. Then I took action and got it healed
in quick order. Best to clean and dress all wounds
immediately.

--
Michael Press