How to touch wheels and not fall off?

Michael Press

In article
<e3eea9a7-b23a-4c6f-90c0-4d6aade85718@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
Bret <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 28, 1:50*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As someone who has spent a relatively large amount of time with my
> > wheels in weird places and a relatively small amount of time lying on
> > the ground, bleeding, I'd suggest that the best advice is not to panic.
>
> Long ago on the Tuesday evening training race (Bustop ride) from
> Boulder, I was in a train moving forward just before the final sprint.
> Someone tried to switch abruptly to the wheel I was on and we bounced
> off each other for a while. Neither of us crashed but we both got
> knocked out of the sprint. I later found out that his front wheel had
> ripped an adjustment screw out of my rear derailleur. It was Scott
> Berryman who was one of the top match sprinters in the country. I'm
> guessing that he weighed about 220 lbs at the time. We're rolling
> along together and I'm griping at him about switching over to the
> wheel like that without looking to see if it's occupied. His answer
> was that I should ride track and then I wouldn't get so excited when
> things like that happened. Then he tried to sell me a track bike. I
> remember thinking that I didn't need to get used to that. Over twenty
> years later I ran into him on a training ride. He's the same
> gregarious fellow and we had an interesting conversation. I mentioned
> the Bustop incident and found he has no recollection at all.
>
> Anyway, I think Potter should build a velodrome in his backyard. If
> you build it they will come.

I once explained to a fellow ice hockey fan why I never
played competitive sports of any kind. He said "You were
right to stay out of them." These kinds of incidents with
me involved would end with blood spilled or the other
party punked out. I do not back off of interactions with
potential for violence, and therefore conduct my affairs
in such a way that they do not arise. He would have remembered me.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press

In article
<36366002-d858-4971-aca2-ae9068ffb5dd@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>,
SLAVE of THE STATE <gwhite@ti.com> wrote:

> On May 28, 2:50*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My undertutored theory is that most crashes result from over-controlling
> > rather than under-controlling, and maybe not being quite as focused
> > about keeping it upright (target fixation is fun!) as not-crashy riders
> > are.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> I crashed once from "undercontrolling," or just being "too relaxed."
> Not as contact with anyone, but by hitting an "invisible asphalt knot"
> coming out of a corner.
>
> I was almost out of the corner and started to stand to respond to a
> gap that had been allowed to form (not by me). Right at that moment
> "something" knocked the handlbars out of my hands, for which I had a
> relaxed hold on. Of course, at that point I could not steer and went
> into the opposite curb. It sort of hurt.
>
> I had to go back over and look closely at the road to see the knotted
> up section, as there was no crack and not much discoloration. I could
> not explain the loss of control any other way. It was sort of like an
> inverted crack would be if your front wheel hit it. I was not looking
> down, but forward to the riders and the gap at the time of control
> loss.
>
> My dumbass lessons were:
> 1. wait till being all the way out of the corner before standing/
> accelerating
> 2. if not waiting, keep a strong hold on the handlebars unless the
> pavement is known to be very good. Or just keep a strong hold for
> that sort of move in any case.
>
> It sucked.

You redefined under-controlling to mean not having control
of the bicycle. They are two different things. One must be
able to make the bicycle do what one wants (and it is capable of doing)
at any time.

--
Michael Press

dustoyevsky@mac.com

On May 28, 6:18*pm, "Paul G." <carb...@egine.com> wrote:

> Was this your rear wheel clipping her front wheel

Yes.

> It's a whole other thing when
> someone clips your front wheel.

We were talking about "clipping wheels" when discussing unintentional
comings-together.

> If you think otherwise,

I know otherwise. One example I offered, yes I was kind of fastened to
the guy who hooked me, but if I had just let the bars turn, there
would have been a crash. Maybe both of us. I guess I could have done
my best to land on him whose fault it was 2x, but I like my solution
better <g>.

> I've got a
> lucrative bet for you up there. I guarantee my rear wheel will easily
> turn your front wheel and you will fall. *My bike is effectively a
> lever, with the long end being the distance between my axles and the
> short end being the rear half of my rear wheel. *That's a hell of a
> lever. It can easily deflect your front wheel. You can "fight for it"
> as hard as you want, I'll hardly notice.

Unless (speaking hypothetically) I take you down, instead. Like I
said, I've seen it done. Rare, difficult maybe but very possible.

> That's why, as the original
> poster says, "everyone who does it on the club rides that I go on
> always does crash."

Too many people riding in that group who don't know what they're
doing. Clippers and clipees both. Meaning, too much moving sideways
without looking first, too much careless, foolish overlapping of
wheels, and finally, not knowing what to do if there is a cross-up.
The crashes (which the OP made seem common) are proof. Period.

Funny thing, I had good teachers. "Don't overlap" (until you know what
you're doing), and "don't move over without checking FIRST" were as
fundamental as "here's what to do if you get caught on a rear wheel".

It's been 28, 29 years in groups now (not in races), depending on
counting, some years much more riding than others, for sure. I've
never touched a wheel, not even once a little bit, on a group ride. I
do a lot of glued-on sitting, had lots of close calls from the wheel
ahead switching or coming back on standups, but never once an incident
of contact. It's not an accident, and that with not being (really)
afraid to touch, or grind the hell out of a wheel, by any means. I
just don't want to, a point of pride I guess. Not to take all the
credit by any means, I ride with some pretty good hands. Not all, and
there are a few who have resisted learning for years and years. But
then, I look for a good wheel and stick on it, like I was taught all
those years ago. Improves the odds a bunch, you know? The bad wheels,
if I'm temporarily stuck behind, I give them xtra xtra room. Simple. A
lot of people don't think when they ride, like they want to get away
from thinking or something, have you ever noticed?

> Besides, are you gay or something? Real men always ride behind the
> woman, to enjoy the view. *I like the ones with long braids down their
> backs, tight lycra shorts... *Yeah baby! *;-)

Well that was gratuitous. "Real men" and other good riders use their
strength to make things go well for others, especially newcomers, of
any gender. In a "ride" situation, of course. I moved that girl over
via her front wheel, with my rear wheel. Nearly twice her body weight,
plus wind pushing. She fought it off, moved me doing it, stayed up. I
like the possibilities of crash prevention in my universe a lot better
than in yours, thankyouverymuch. That's why I posted the front wheel
slide anecdote, another example of overcoming "there's nothing you can
do". Well, sometimes there is nothing you can do. Or, you should have
done something else <g>! But a passive attitude, accepting crashes,
"bad luck" and so forth is nowhere. --D-y

Michael Press

In article <e58r34dmee0v5mn05h98fvkvkovrujg2uq@4ax.com>,
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenetremove@jt10000.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 28 May 2008 10:17:36 -0700 (PDT), "dustoyevsky@mac.com"
> <dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote:
>
> >Certainly worth a fight to stay up.
>
> Yeah, besides the great details you gave, this is sooo important. And
> important in other situations. In trouble situations on the bike too
> many people either panic and jerk something like the bars or their
> brakes and take themselves out (I think this is why people crash when
> a squirrel runs into their wheel) or accept that they are going down
> w/o fighting it.
>
> The only time to accept going down is when staying up or delaying the
> fall would be worse -- say you have a choice being going down right
> away in a slide or going down later by flipping over a wall or into a
> car or something.

Had an oncoming a pizza delivery car left turn in front
of 20 mph me. I put the bicycle sideways, got my line
of travel parallel to him, collapsed my rear wheel,
and stayed up.

To make his day I filed a police report and kept him on
the scene for an hour until it was sorted out with no
further action.

--
Michael Press

John Forrest Tomlinson

On Wed, 28 May 2008 17:12:30 -0700 (PDT), "dustoyevsky@mac.com"
<dustoyevsky@mac.com> wrote:

>Funny thing, I had good teachers. "Don't overlap" (until you know what
>you're doing), and "don't move over without checking FIRST" were as
>fundamental as "here's what to do if you get caught on a rear wheel".

Don't overlap is important most of the time.

But it took me awhile to realize it's possible to overlap if the guy
in front of you is overlapped in such a way that if he moves over in
the direction that would hit my front wheel, he'd hit the guy in front
of him. Whereas if that guy moved, it'd move the guy directly in front
of me away from my front wheel.

That's how overlapping in a tight bunch that's several riders wide can
be not quite as dangerous as it looks.

SLAVE of THE STATE

On May 28, 7:10*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <36366002-d858-4971-aca2-ae9068ffb...@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>,
> *SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 28, 2:50*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > My undertutored theory is that most crashes result from over-controlling
> > > rather than under-controlling, and maybe not being quite as focused
> > > about keeping it upright (target fixation is fun!) as not-crashy riders
> > > are.
>
> > Dumbass,
>
> > I crashed once from "undercontrolling," or just being "too relaxed."
> > Not as contact with anyone, but by hitting an "invisible asphalt knot"
> > coming out of a corner.
>
> > I was almost out of the corner and started to stand to respond to a
> > gap that had been allowed to form (not by me). *Right at that moment
> > "something" knocked the handlbars out of my hands, for which I had a
> > relaxed hold on. *Of course, at that point I could not steer and went
> > into the opposite curb. *It sort of hurt.
>
> > I had to go back over and look closely at the road to see the knotted
> > up section, as there was no crack and not much discoloration. *I could
> > not explain the loss of control any other way. *It was sort of like an
> > inverted crack would be if your front wheel hit it. *I was not looking
> > down, but forward to the riders and the gap at the time of control
> > loss.
>
> > My dumbass lessons were:
> > 1. wait till being all the way out of the corner before standing/
> > accelerating
> > 2. if not waiting, keep a strong hold on the handlebars unless the
> > pavement is known to be very good. *Or just keep a strong hold for
> > that sort of move in any case.
>
> > It sucked.
>
> You redefined under-controlling to mean not having control
> of the bicycle. They are two different things. One must be
> able to make the bicycle do what one wants (and it is capable of doing)
> at any time.

Dumbass,

I put it in quotes just for nitpickers and also qualified by "or just
being 'too relaxed.'"

I did have control up to the moment I lost control. Crashing and
"falling off" are by definition a matter of having lost control. That
is, unless one crashes on purpose. But "on purpose" isn't really a
crash but a "had appearances very similar to a crash."

"I meant to fall down the stairs." -- BF

I used an earlier version in college, and I'm thinking of forwarding
it to Schwartzsoft for code enhancement:
http://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Con.../dp/0471134767/

Allow me too infringe on some Schwartzsoft IP:
kkoreStrArray(53) = 'control';
wdykaStr = sprintf('What do you know about %s?',kkoreStrArray(53));

Bret

On May 28, 6:04*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article
> <e3eea9a7-b23a-4c6f-90c0-4d6aade85...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> *Bret <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 28, 1:50*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > As someone who has spent a relatively large amount of time with my
> > > wheels in weird places and a relatively small amount of time lying on
> > > the ground, bleeding, I'd suggest that the best advice is not to panic..
>
> > Long ago on the Tuesday evening training race (Bustop ride) from
> > Boulder, I was in a train moving forward just before the final sprint.
> > Someone tried to switch abruptly to the wheel I was on and we bounced
> > off each other for a while. Neither of us crashed but we both got
> > knocked out of the sprint. I later found out that his front wheel had
> > ripped an adjustment screw out of my rear derailleur. It was Scott
> > Berryman who was one of the top match sprinters in the country. I'm
> > guessing that he weighed about 220 lbs at the time. We're rolling
> > along together and I'm griping at him about switching over to the
> > wheel like that without looking to see if it's occupied. His answer
> > was that I should ride track and then I wouldn't get so excited when
> > things like that happened. Then he tried to sell me a track bike. I
> > remember thinking that I didn't need to get used to that. Over twenty
> > years later I ran into him on a training ride. He's the same
> > gregarious fellow and we had an interesting conversation. I mentioned
> > the Bustop incident and found he has no recollection at all.
>
> > Anyway, I think Potter should build a velodrome in his backyard. If
> > you build it they will come.
>
> I once explained to a fellow ice hockey fan why I never
> played competitive sports of any kind. He said "You were
> right to stay out of them." These kinds of incidents with
> me involved would end with blood spilled or the other
> party punked out. I do not back off of interactions with
> potential for violence, and therefore conduct my affairs
> in such a way that they do not arise. He would have remembered me.

It wasn't as hostile a situation as you seem to think. I griped a
little, he got a bit snippy. I saved my anger for the folks that tried
to knock me down intentionally, or were pretending to.

One guy body-slammed me just before our break group started to sprint.
I was the best sprinter in the break and he was trying to help a
teammate win. He pretended it was an accident. He also locked up his
brakes in front of me once in another race.

I had a whole team mad at me about something I posted here on rbr. I
had made what I thought was a humorous comparison between their team
race and Milan San Remo and they didn't take it well. A few of them
just gave me a piece of their mind, but one of them started chopping
me in races. He once went out of his way to keep me from getting
shelter in a crosswind and ended up pushing himself off the road while
trying to ward me off.

The only guy I ever really held a grudge against tried to use me to
knock somebody else down. I was riding in between them and he put his
hand on my bars and shoved them into the other guy's bars. Neither of
us went down but the target broke a spoke on my pedal. The flake was a
guy named Walter that used to wrench for the 7-Eleven women's team. He
didn't have a good reason to be mad at the other guy, much less me.

Bret

Carl Sundquist

"Bret" <bret.wade@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e3eea9a7-b23a-4c6f-90c0-4d6aade85718@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 28, 1:50 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:

> As someone who has spent a relatively large amount of time with my
> wheels in weird places and a relatively small amount of time lying on
> the ground, bleeding, I'd suggest that the best advice is not to panic.

Long ago on the Tuesday evening training race (Bustop ride) from
Boulder, I was in a train moving forward just before the final sprint.
Someone tried to switch abruptly to the wheel I was on and we bounced
off each other for a while. Neither of us crashed but we both got
knocked out of the sprint. I later found out that his front wheel had
ripped an adjustment screw out of my rear derailleur. It was Scott
Berryman who was one of the top match sprinters in the country. I'm
guessing that he weighed about 220 lbs at the time. We're rolling
along together and I'm griping at him about switching over to the
wheel like that without looking to see if it's occupied. His answer
was that I should ride track and then I wouldn't get so excited when
things like that happened. Then he tried to sell me a track bike. I
remember thinking that I didn't need to get used to that. Over twenty
years later I ran into him on a training ride. He's the same
gregarious fellow and we had an interesting conversation. I mentioned
the Bustop incident and found he has no recollection at all.

Anyway, I think Potter should build a velodrome in his backyard. If
you build it they will come.

Bret
-------------------------

Berryman's comments were partially typical track sprinter posturing and
partially his acceptance of crashing as a part of what he did. I don't
recall him ever suffering a broken bone, but his skin took beating many a
time.

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

On May 28, 11:21 am, Bret <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Long ago on the Tuesday evening training race (Bustop ride) from
> Boulder, I was in a train moving forward just before the final sprint.
> Someone tried to switch abruptly to the wheel I was on and we bounced
> off each other for a while. Neither of us crashed but we both got
> knocked out of the sprint. I later found out that his front wheel had
> ripped an adjustment screw out of my rear derailleur. It was Scott
> Berryman who was one of the top match sprinters in the country. I'm
> guessing that he weighed about 220 lbs at the time. We're rolling
> along together and I'm griping at him about switching over to the
> wheel like that without looking to see if it's occupied. His answer
> was that I should ride track and then I wouldn't get so excited when
> things like that happened. Then he tried to sell me a track bike. I
> remember thinking that I didn't need to get used to that. Over twenty
> years later I ran into him on a training ride. He's the same
> gregarious fellow and we had an interesting conversation. I mentioned
> the Bustop incident and found he has no recollection at all.
>
> Anyway, I think Potter should build a velodrome in his backyard. If
> you build it they will come.

I think he was running a successful business
and this was all part of his standard pitch to
sell track bikes. That's why he didn't remember
the incident. Any salesman has to make more
pitches than sales, and you can't remember
all the prospects who didn't bite. You have to
remember the good customers.

If Potter builds a velodrome in his backyard,
we should go. RBR Road Trip!

Ben

Bret

On May 28, 10:24*pm, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
wrote:
> On May 28, 11:21 am, Bret <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Long ago on the Tuesday evening training race (Bustop ride) from
> > Boulder, I was in a train moving forward just before the final sprint.
> > Someone tried to switch abruptly to the wheel I was on and we bounced
> > off each other for a while. Neither of us crashed but we both got
> > knocked out of the sprint. I later found out that his front wheel had
> > ripped an adjustment screw out of my rear derailleur. It was Scott
> > Berryman who was one of the top match sprinters in the country. I'm
> > guessing that he weighed about 220 lbs at the time. We're rolling
> > along together and I'm griping at him about switching over to the
> > wheel like that without looking to see if it's occupied. His answer
> > was that I should ride track and then I wouldn't get so excited when
> > things like that happened. Then he tried to sell me a track bike. I
> > remember thinking that I didn't need to get used to that. Over twenty
> > years later I ran into him on a training ride. He's the same
> > gregarious fellow and we had an interesting conversation. I mentioned
> > the Bustop incident and found he has no recollection at all.
>
> > Anyway, I think Potter should build a velodrome in his backyard. If
> > you build it they will come.
>
> I think he was running a successful business
> and this was all part of his standard pitch to
> sell track bikes. *That's why he didn't remember
> the incident. *Any salesman has to make more
> pitches than sales, and you can't remember
> all the prospects who didn't bite. *You have to
> remember the good customers.
>
> If Potter builds a velodrome in his backyard,
> we should go. *RBR Road Trip!
>
> Ben

He wasn't that great a salesman. When he offered to sell me a track
bike, I asked him if it was the bike I'd seen him crash on TV
recently. Nothing I'd said up to that point had bothered him, but he
muttered something about me questioning his honesty and rode off. He
was riding beautiful black Serottas at the time. I would have liked to
own one.

Bret

Bret

On May 28, 10:19*pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Bret" <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e3eea9a7-b23a-4c6f-90c0-4d6aade85718@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 28, 1:50 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As someone who has spent a relatively large amount of time with my
> > wheels in weird places and a relatively small amount of time lying on
> > the ground, bleeding, I'd suggest that the best advice is not to panic.
>
> Long ago on the Tuesday evening training race (Bustop ride) from
> Boulder, I was in a train moving forward just before the final sprint.
> Someone tried to switch abruptly to the wheel I was on and we bounced
> off each other for a while. Neither of us crashed but we both got
> knocked out of the sprint. I later found out that his front wheel had
> ripped an adjustment screw out of my rear derailleur. It was Scott
> Berryman who was one of the top match sprinters in the country. I'm
> guessing that he weighed about 220 lbs at the time. We're rolling
> along together and I'm griping at him about switching over to the
> wheel like that without looking to see if it's occupied. His answer
> was that I should ride track and then I wouldn't get so excited when
> things like that happened. Then he tried to sell me a track bike. I
> remember thinking that I didn't need to get used to that. Over twenty
> years later I ran into him on a training ride. He's the same
> gregarious fellow and we had an interesting conversation. I mentioned
> the Bustop incident and found he has no recollection at all.
>
> Anyway, I think Potter should build a velodrome in his backyard. If
> you build it they will come.
>
> Bret
> -------------------------
>
> Berryman's comments were partially typical track sprinter posturing and
> partially his acceptance of crashing as a part of what he did. I don't
> recall him ever suffering a broken bone, but his skin took beating many a
> time.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I took it at the time.

Bret

Bret

On May 28, 2:41*pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <gwh...@ti.com> wrote:
> On May 28, 2:50*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My undertutored theory is that most crashes result from over-controlling
> > rather than under-controlling, and maybe not being quite as focused
> > about keeping it upright (target fixation is fun!) as not-crashy riders
> > are.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> I crashed once from "undercontrolling," or just being "too relaxed."
> Not as contact with anyone, but by hitting an "invisible asphalt knot"
> coming out of a corner.
>
> I was almost out of the corner and started to stand to respond to a
> gap that had been allowed to form (not by me). *Right at that moment
> "something" knocked the handlbars out of my hands, for which I had a
> relaxed hold on. *Of course, at that point I could not steer and went
> into the opposite curb. *It sort of hurt.
>
> I had to go back over and look closely at the road to see the knotted
> up section, as there was no crack and not much discoloration. *I could
> not explain the loss of control any other way. *It was sort of like an
> inverted crack would be if your front wheel hit it. *I was not looking
> down, but forward to the riders and the gap at the time of control
> loss.
>
> My dumbass lessons were:
> 1. wait till being all the way out of the corner before standing/
> accelerating
> 2. if not waiting, keep a strong hold on the handlebars unless the
> pavement is known to be very good. *Or just keep a strong hold for
> that sort of move in any case.
>
> It sucked.

I broke my hip doing the MTB equivalent. I took an unnatural line on a
non-technical trail to give a hiker more space than they really needed
and let my hands get knocked off the bars by a rock I didn't see.

Bret

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

On May 29, 5:58*am, Bret <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 28, 6:04*pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <e3eea9a7-b23a-4c6f-90c0-4d6aade85...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > *Bret <bret.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On May 28, 1:50*am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > As someone who has spent a relatively large amount of time with my
> > > > wheels in weird places and a relatively small amount of time lying on
> > > > the ground, bleeding, I'd suggest that the best advice is not to panic.
>
> > > Long ago on the Tuesday evening training race (Bustop ride) from
> > > Boulder, I was in a train moving forward just before the final sprint.
> > > Someone tried to switch abruptly to the wheel I was on and we bounced
> > > off each other for a while. Neither of us crashed but we both got
> > > knocked out of the sprint. I later found out that his front wheel had
> > > ripped an adjustment screw out of my rear derailleur. It was Scott
> > > Berryman who was one of the top match sprinters in the country. I'm
> > > guessing that he weighed about 220 lbs at the time. We're rolling
> > > along together and I'm griping at him about switching over to the
> > > wheel like that without looking to see if it's occupied. His answer
> > > was that I should ride track and then I wouldn't get so excited when
> > > things like that happened. Then he tried to sell me a track bike. I
> > > remember thinking that I didn't need to get used to that. Over twenty
> > > years later I ran into him on a training ride. He's the same
> > > gregarious fellow and we had an interesting conversation. I mentioned
> > > the Bustop incident and found he has no recollection at all.
>
> > > Anyway, I think Potter should build a velodrome in his backyard. If
> > > you build it they will come.
>
> > I once explained to a fellow ice hockey fan why I never
> > played competitive sports of any kind. He said "You were
> > right to stay out of them." These kinds of incidents with
> > me involved would end with blood spilled or the other
> > party punked out. I do not back off of interactions with
> > potential for violence, and therefore conduct my affairs
> > in such a way that they do not arise. He would have remembered me.
>
> It wasn't as hostile a situation as you seem to think. I griped a
> little, he got a bit snippy. I saved my anger for the folks that tried
> to knock me down intentionally, or were pretending to.
>
> One guy body-slammed me just before our break group started to sprint.
> I was the best sprinter in the break and he was trying to help a
> teammate win. He pretended it was an accident. He also locked up his
> brakes in front of me once in another race.
>
> I had a whole team mad at me about something I posted here on rbr. I
> had made what I thought was a humorous comparison between their team
> race and Milan San Remo and they didn't take it well. A few of them
> just gave me a piece of their mind, but one of them started chopping
> me in races. He once went out of his way to keep me from getting
> shelter in a crosswind and ended up pushing himself off the road while
> trying *to ward me off.
>
> The only guy I ever really held a grudge against tried to use me to
> knock somebody else down. I was riding in between them and he put his
> hand on my bars and shoved them into the other guy's bars. Neither of
> us went down but the target broke a spoke on my pedal. The flake was a
> guy named Walter that used to wrench for the 7-Eleven women's team. He
> didn't have a good reason to be mad at the other guy, much less me.
>
> Bret

I hope the anger you saved for those punks was well administered.
People should not be allowed to get away with shit like that.

Joseph

Howard Kveck

In article <82bb2bcf-6413-459a-9bbc-dc8030d7ab0d@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
"Paul G." <carbide@egine.com> wrote:

> Stop trying to bullshit me. There is a science to this. If you can
> keep your front wheel under your center of gravity you can stay
> upright. If someone's wheel barely touches yours, sure, you have a
> chance to do that, but if they nudge your front wheel even an inch to
> the side your bike will turn sharply and gravity will take over.

I think the best way to describe that action is to say the wheel touch/movement is
an exagerated version of countersteering. To make a left turn, there's a tiny
steering input to the right to initiate the lean to the left. So if your front wheel
is hit by another wheel from the left, your front wheel turns right which makes the
bike lean and turn to the left (which is, of course, into the other bike). I think
it's possible to fight that but it is pretty hard to do. Not something you'd be able
to think through - it'd have to be a reaction.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?