Kloden gets bitch slapped !

Eldrack

If the person doing the doping was a complete tool and injected someone elses blood. The blood passport thing gives a good indication if someone is using blood doping or EPO to adjust their haemocrit levels.

There is some sort of a good side to this story. The top guys are getting tested more. Smaller teams probably dope, but not as much as Kloden is suggesting, after all the minnows can't afford the expensive dope that clears the hurdle of testing and still gives good results. Now all we need is tests that actually work.

hawkeye87

But I thought the queston was specific to the "auto" type of doping. Isn't that where you re-inject your own RBCs?

I know that WADA and other agencies were looking at finding a way of "ageing" the RBCs but I cannot think of any doping case that nailed a cyclist for using their own.

The CRIT level would be the first giveaway.

__________________

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TheDarkLord

I assume that following a transfusion, the hematocrit level will have a spike. How long does it take for it to go back to normal levels? That would give a window of opportunity to catch the doper using a biological passport assuming that it is implemented properly without any corruption. I would imagine that age dating RBCs would be quite complicated.

whiteboytrash

Kloden wants you to believe that from all those years at T-Mobile & with Vino at Astana that he never doped. Ever. Kloden is one clean rider. What the ? Bruyneel must have put him up to it. Its just not a plausable thing to say & accuse other teams. Maybe he's deflecting the heat off Contador ?

fscyclist

Then it wouldn't be autologous.

Point is there is no way to prove it unless you catch them in the act. There are markers that may point to autologous doping, but I doubt they would hold up in a legal hearing.

Ava Marie

From what I understand there is test but the method is difficult. The rider has to enhale some kind of gas (No Joke) and it has to be mesaured over time. I think that High Road said they were using it at training camp.

thunder

yeah, it is not perfect, and has CO2 which reduces the performance over the subsequent days.

Cant just spring it on someone the day before a GT, as it will f up a chrono/prologue/TTT performance, and disadvantage them.

So it is flawed.

It also is not accurate enough to withstand scrutiny, margin of error too high.

There is another test tho, measuring age of cells.

Trev_S

So what did Klodi say in fact. "I don't want to talk about the team of Priamo"
I would think that there is nothing a lawyer could do against that statement. It's not as if Klodi said out in plain "CSF Navigare team are doping" he didn't even say that in his opinion they are doping".

So CSF Navigare are getting their knickers in a knot because Klodi doesn't want to talk about them??

Sure you can read it that he implied it, but he didn't say actually say anything.

fscyclist

Yes...I believe they are researching a test using the inhalation of Carbon Monoxide before and after a race. Don't know the results or exact mechanism of the test, or if it would only detect recently transfused blood. Even if that test is validated, I think it would be very hard to implement as there are all kinds of ethical ramifications by making an individual inhale a toxic substance (even if it is a tiny, "insignificant" amount) as a condition of employment. There are other tests currently being researched, but again, none have been legally validated, and none are in use. I think developing a test that will stand up to legal scrutiny will prove to be very difficult, but I could be wrong. Looking at certain blood parameters certainly will give indications, but I can't see them withstanding scrutiny if they were challenged.

TheDarkLord

Carbon monoxide?? That is lethal stuff which bonds to heamoglobin and renders it unable to carry oxygen. I don't think such a test will see the light of day.

Wayne666

Exactly. The biopassport is suppose to be the mechanism that will prevent it, but until someone gets suspended do you really think riders aren't taking the risk?

Still no test for HgH, probably a few other hormones that are less sexy but still used.

So you have several options that are undetectable unless the police catch you, not to mention the limited window to detect most other drugs, so still somewhat low risk if willing to take the chance.

Eldron

I might be wrong - hey I'm a metallurgist not a doctor - but I don't think there will even be a spike when re-injecting your own blood unless it's been concentrated (spun a bit in a lab to concentrate the red blood corps).

My logic is that if you re-inject blood the concentration of rbc's stays the same there are just more of them due to the higher blood volume.

Ageing tests aside I don't think there will ever be a decent test for auto blood doping. The stored blood will be refrigerated so it'll age really slow anyway...

This is one of those "catch them with the equipment" rather than by test.

My 2c on the Kloden comments - I think it's being taken out of context - effectively he said the bigger teams had better internal controls than the smaller teams. Someone's making a mountain out of a mole hill here...

whiteboytrash

He said much the same yesterday. He re-clarified his statements saying this is what he meant. Now I thought Germans were always direct & to the point ?

Eldron

It's one of the things I love about grand tours - italians interviewing french riders in german, spanish journalists interviewing croatian riders in flemish etc...

The scene is set for some serious misinterpretations with interesting consequences.

In totally unrelated news - I'm loving the Giro - GC riders scrabbling for a few seconds at the end of a stage is what cycling is all about. I can't wait for the mountains....