Crap Shimano gears!!

Ted Mittelstaedt

"Frank Krygowski" <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3764c4d5-1d41-495e-8e6d-69da7ef51552@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 19, 3:51 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Ok, my wife's new bike (well, probably a year old now) Sequoia, is
already
> > hogging out the teeth on the gears on the rear hub.
> >
> > I don't get this - the el-cheapo Kmart 10-speed bicycles I used to
ride
> > when I was 20
> > years younger and pedaling with a lot more force than I'm sure my wife
is,
> > never did this with their gears, even when the chain was covered with
rust
> > and by all accounts should have stretched like a rubber band.
> >
> > I've seen other people with newer bikes with the same problem. And
> > my wife refuses to ride in the rain, so it's not a lack of lube problem.
> >
> > So, what is the deal here? Why is it I can buy a brand new o-ring
chain,
> > forged aluminum sprocket and front sprocket for my Honda 750, apply
> > at least 50 times the amount of torque to that with the motorcycle
engine,
> > and have that set last at least 6 years before it starts hogging out the
> > teeth? And that chain is exposed to the elements - and unlike my wife I
> > -do- ride in the rain.
> >
> > Why can't a chain, and front and rear sprocket set on a brand new
thousand
> > dollar bicycle last as long as a set on a $150 Kmart 10-speed special?
And
> > why is the best the bicycle manufactures can come up with is the
bushingless
> > chain - which although touted as "better" is really just a money-saving
> > thing, since it takes less parts to make? Where are the bicycle o-ring
> > chains? And why are the sprockets on expensive bikes made out of such
> > lame steel today compared to cheap, or old bikes?
> >
> > Is it some secret agenda of the bicycle manufacturers to put parts on
> > these bikes that wear out quick so the owners have to keep taking them
> > back into the bike shop for new sprockets?
> >
> > Ted
>
> I think there's a chance Ted doesn't understand what he's looking at.
>
> Ted, what do you mean by "hogging out the teeth"? Do you mean all the
> teeth on a sprocket are not uniform in shape? And that the sides of
> the sprockets are not smooth, but are sort of grooved, and thinner in
> places?
>
> If so, it's because they're made that way on purpose. The shape of
> the sprockets and teeth are specially designed to allow the chain to
> snap quickly from one to the next when a rider shifts gears. It's a
> design feature that has made shifting much easier than it was when you
> applied all that force 20 years ago. In fact, if you go into a bike
> shop and look at the brand new cogs, you'll see the same "problem."
> Which is not a problem at all.
>

I think your talking about "interactive glide".

Why I noticed it on her gears at all was
because I happened to be fixing a flat on it - the bike was supplied
from the factory with cheap crappy tires (what do you expect) and
she gets probably a flat every month. (we must have a lot of drunks
busting beer bottles because every time it's always a glass flake that
gets in) The wear on the teeth on the 4th gear in the cassette stuck
out pretty obviously, it's definitely hogged out - those teeth do not
look like the teeth in the other gears. The other gears in
the cassette could be fine, I really didn't look that closely. My general
approach when seeing worn gears is to leave the sprockets
and chain alone until they start slipping then replace everything all
at once.

> If your wife has ridden fewer than 10,000 miles on that bike during
> the past year - which is an easy bet - there's no way she's "hogged
> out" any teeth.
>

I think your exaggerating on that. Mileage and chain wear are not
closely related. Chain wear is related to chain lubrication, a dry chain
with grit in it will wear quite quickly.

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt

"Paul M. Hobson" <fobson@gatech.edu> wrote in message
news:g0rqh3$deq$1@news-int.gatech.edu...

>
> Motorcycles don't necessarily have more torque than cyclists. The
> motors operate at significantly higher speeds (rpm) than a cyclist's
> legs, however. Model year 2000 Honda Shadow has 65 ft-lbf of torque.
> Simply standing standing on a pedal at my 135 lbf weight and 170 mm
> cranks applies 75 ft-lbf of torque to my drive train.
>

Good point, I had forgotten about the whole leverage thing. That and
the chain being thinner would explain a lot. And, yes I can understand
why they went to a thinner chain.

Ted

Frank Krygowski

On May 21, 5:59 am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
> "Frank Krygowski" <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > I think there's a chance Ted doesn't understand what he's looking at.
>
> > Ted, what do you mean by "hogging out the teeth"? Do you mean all the
> > teeth on a sprocket are not uniform in shape? And that the sides of
> > the sprockets are not smooth, but are sort of grooved, and thinner in
> > places?
>
> > If so, it's because they're made that way on purpose. The shape of
> > the sprockets and teeth are specially designed to allow the chain to
> > snap quickly from one to the next when a rider shifts gears. It's a
> > design feature that has made shifting much easier than it was when you
> > applied all that force 20 years ago. In fact, if you go into a bike
> > shop and look at the brand new cogs, you'll see the same "problem."
> > Which is not a problem at all.
>
> I think your talking about "interactive glide".
>
> Why I noticed it on her gears at all was
> because I happened to be fixing a flat on it - the bike was supplied
> from the factory with cheap crappy tires (what do you expect) and
> she gets probably a flat every month. (we must have a lot of drunks
> busting beer bottles because every time it's always a glass flake that
> gets in) The wear on the teeth on the 4th gear in the cassette stuck
> out pretty obviously, it's definitely hogged out - those teeth do not
> look like the teeth in the other gears. The other gears in
> the cassette could be fine, I really didn't look that closely. My general
> approach when seeing worn gears is to leave the sprockets
> and chain alone until they start slipping then replace everything all
> at once.
>
> > If your wife has ridden fewer than 10,000 miles on that bike during
> > the past year - which is an easy bet - there's no way she's "hogged
> > out" any teeth.
>
> I think your exaggerating on that. Mileage and chain wear are not
> closely related. Chain wear is related to chain lubrication, a dry chain
> with grit in it will wear quite quickly.

So, how many miles has your wife ridden on that year-old bike? Tell
us. Until then, I'm sticking with my guess that she has not ridden
nearly enough miles to do any damage to the rear cogs.

Admittedly, if you've kept the bike parked on an ocean beach (for good
salt spray), and were careful to regularly drag the chain in the sand
(for plenty of grit), and never cleaned or lubricated the chain, and
if your wife has done at least several thousand miles with the chain
in that condition, there's a chance she's worn out the chain.

But I doubt it. The squeaking and stiffness would make her want
lubrication. And that still wouldn't "hog out the teeth."

Here's what you should do: Post some photos online so we can see
exactly what you're complaining about. Then we can stop guessing.

Alternately, take the bike into a genuine bike shop. Show them what
you're complaining about, and let them show you a brand new set of
cogs for comparison. My guess is that you'll learn a lot.

- Frank Krygowski

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

On May 21, 2:59*am, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <t...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
> *The wear on the teeth on the 4th gear in the cassette stuck
> out pretty obviously, it's definitely hogged out - those teeth do not
> look like the teeth in the other gears. *The other gears in
> the cassette could be fine, I really didn't look that closely. *My general
> approach when seeing worn gears is to leave the sprockets
> and chain alone until they start slipping then replace everything all
> at once.

This is bad maintenance practice. You should
measure the chain every now and then and replace
it when it gets to 0.5-1% elongation (beyond the
nominal 12" per 12 links).
That way, you can make a cassette last through
about 3 chains, and you won't wear out the chainrings,
which are expensive to replace.

This is no different (and less hassle) than remembering
to change the oil in your car.

> > If your wife has ridden fewer than 10,000 miles on that bike during
> > the past year - which is an easy bet - there's no way she's "hogged
> > out" any teeth.
>
> I think your exaggerating on that. *Mileage and chain wear are not
> closely related. *Chain wear is related to chain lubrication, a dry chain
> with grit in it will wear quite quickly.

If you're wearing out cogs because the chain's
worn and never lubed, it's not "crap Shimano gears,"
it's failing to take care of your equipment. Respect
your bike and it will last longer.

Ben

Ted Mittelstaedt

"Frank Krygowski" <frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:938edd30-d341-4e98-b5fb-b5fc599e0a44@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...

> But I doubt it. The squeaking and stiffness would make her want
> lubrication.

Hmm, it never has before.... ;-)

> Here's what you should do: Post some photos online so we can see
> exactly what you're complaining about. Then we can stop guessing.
>

But that would take all the fun out of it. :-)

Seriously, I hadn't thought of doing that, but I will. I have to replace a
broken spoke anyway.

Ted