20mph zones coming.

budstaff

"spindrift" <newtyres@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:33ac6132-12e6-4960-8680-9ce4baad55d0@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Nobody is saying close all the roads, nor will drivers have to have a
> man with a red flag walking in front of the car.
>
> 95% of accidents involve driver error according to ROSPA. Fatal RTA's
> are invariably avoidable.

Then let's set a target of a 95% reduction (and recognise that it will be
unachievable)

Just zis Guy, you know?

On Fri, 16 May 2008 05:58:51 -0700 (PDT), Sir Jeremy
<pete.aron@virgin.net> said in
<3d0041c8-505c-4a20-a1fb-28668a4850b8@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:

>The variable limits outside schools was an ABD idea years ago so glad
>to see the Government agreeing.

I heard it suggested long before they took it on, but of course they
mainly mean it in the sense of not having low limits when they want
to go fast rather than having them when it will make the roads
safer.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Sir Jeremy

On 16 May, 15:36, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <u...@ftc.gov> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 05:58:51 -0700 (PDT), Sir Jeremy
> <pete.a...@virgin.net> said in
> <3d0041c8-505c-4a20-a1fb-28668a485...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >The variable limits outside schools was an ABD idea years ago so glad
> >to see the Government agreeing.
>
> I heard it suggested long before they took it on, but of course they
> mainly mean it in the sense of not having low limits when they want
> to go fast rather than having them when it will make the roads
> safer.
>
> Guy
> --
> May contain traces of irony. *Contents liable to settle after posting.http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
>
> 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Adds up to the same thing despite your typically ant-car spin

spindrift

"Then let's set a target of a 95% reduction (and recognise that it
will be
unachievable) "


Not at all, in Denmark slower speeds as well as other measures have
resulted in cycling being four times safer than in the UK.

Slashing the carnage on our roads is achievable, and essential.

David Hansen

On Fri, 16 May 2008 05:58:51 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Sir
Jeremy <pete.aron@virgin.net> wrote this:-

>The variable limits outside schools was an ABD idea years ago so glad
>to see the Government agreeing.

Really. If it was then their "idea" was no-doubt no speed limit most
of the time and only one at school in/out times. That is rather
different to the variable speed limits that are set up outside
schools and for which the ABD can take no credit.

>Compulsory helmets on cycles for children - only a matter of time now.

Why should a cycle used by children wear a helmet?

>Can't see how it'd be enforced for adults though except perhaps by
>insurance companies refusing to pay out on injury claims if a helmet
>isn't worn

They have tried. However, when taken to court they have, as far as
we know, failed <http://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html?1048>.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen

On Fri, 16 May 2008 07:38:37 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Sir
Jeremy <pete.aron@virgin.net> wrote this:-

>> >The variable limits outside schools was an ABD idea years ago so glad
>> >to see the Government agreeing.
>>
>> I heard it suggested long before they took it on, but of course they
>> mainly mean it in the sense of not having low limits when they want
>> to go fast rather than having them when it will make the roads
>> safer.
>
>Adds up to the same thing

Wrong. It adds up to a very different thing.

>despite your typically ant-car spin

Excellent, a personal attack.

Now I must stop feeding the troll.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Just zis Guy, you know?

On Fri, 16 May 2008 07:38:37 -0700 (PDT), Sir Jeremy
<pete.aron@virgin.net> said in
<d209aeff-33df-47ee-897a-478fe0d8c902@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:

>Adds up to the same thing despite your typically ant-car spin

Um, no it doesn't. And anti-ABD is not anti-car, ABD are extremist
militant cagers.

ABD's stance is that anything that interferes with them going fast
is, by default, bad. Their willingness to tolerate VSLs round
schools was, in my view, simply a way of opposing slower speeds
around schools, since they didn't believe it would happen.

Let's wait and see what they say when the tickets start rolling in.
"Oh, what a good idea" is not in my top ten lists of quotes I'm
expecting to hear from them once that happens.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

spindrift

The ABD, like safespeeding, is an irrelevance. Fewer than 3000
members, linked to extreme-right groups, given to hysterical whining
about law enforcement.

They also lie about their size:


ABD's chairman, Brian Gregory, initially told the Guardian that the
association had 9,000 members. But when challenged, the ABD lowered
its claim to 2,256 paying subscribers and 3,775 "affiliate" members
who it said were automatically included by virtue of their membership
of eight connected associations.

Several of the so-called affiliate organisations denied that their
members had any link to the ABD. The Renault Clio Owners' Club, which
numbers 1,000 people, said it did not consider that its members could
be counted by the ABD. The Fiat Motor Club, which also has 1,000
members, insisted it had "no official link to the ABD".

Peter Jones, chairman of the Fiat Motor Club, said the club had once
paid a £20 fee to receive the ABD's magazine but had no close
connection: "This is well out of order. Some of our members would
probably take exception to being counted as members of something
they've never heard of and probably don't agree with."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/f...transport.world

budstaff

"spindrift" <newtyres@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:471d86aa-d79c-4d56-9661-8126ed170c19@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> "Then let's set a target of a 95% reduction (and recognise that it
> will be
> unachievable) "
>
>
> Not at all, in Denmark slower speeds as well as other measures have
> resulted in cycling being four times safer than in the UK.
>
> Slashing the carnage on our roads is achievable, and essential.

Since when has this thread been about cycling safety? You put up 'zero
deaths' a a worthy objective, then talked about 95% of accidents being due
to driver error. When I pointed out that neither 100% or 95% reduction in
deaths was achievable, you respond that 'slashing' is achievable. It may
well be, but when you slash something there is a remainder, and a
significant p[art of that remainder is the bit that is unachievable.

Sir Jeremy

On 16 May, 15:48, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <u...@ftc.gov> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 07:38:37 -0700 (PDT), Sir Jeremy
> <pete.a...@virgin.net> said in
> <d209aeff-33df-47ee-897a-478fe0d8c...@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >Adds up to the same thing despite your typically ant-car spin
>
> Um, no it doesn't. *And anti-ABD is not anti-car, ABD are extremist
> militant cagers.
>
> ABD's stance is that anything that interferes with them going fast
> is, by default, bad. *Their willingness to tolerate VSLs round
> schools was, in my view, simply a way of opposing slower speeds
> around schools, since they didn't believe it would happen.
>
> Let's wait and see what they say when the tickets start rolling in.
> "Oh, what a good idea" is not in my top ten lists of quotes I'm
> expecting to hear from them once that happens.
>
> Guy
> --
> May contain traces of irony. *Contents liable to settle after posting.http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
>
> 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound


If Brake had come up with the same idea then you'd be all for it

budstaff

"Sir Jeremy" <pete.aron@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:605166f1-50ec-4a8a-a360-e99532abbded@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On 16 May, 15:48, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <u...@ftc.gov> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 07:38:37 -0700 (PDT), Sir Jeremy
> <pete.a...@virgin.net> said in
> <d209aeff-33df-47ee-897a-478fe0d8c...@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >Adds up to the same thing despite your typically ant-car spin
>
> Um, no it doesn't. And anti-ABD is not anti-car, ABD are extremist
> militant cagers.
>
> ABD's stance is that anything that interferes with them going fast
> is, by default, bad. Their willingness to tolerate VSLs round
> schools was, in my view, simply a way of opposing slower speeds
> around schools, since they didn't believe it would happen.
>
> Let's wait and see what they say when the tickets start rolling in.
> "Oh, what a good idea" is not in my top ten lists of quotes I'm
> expecting to hear from them once that happens.
>
> Guy
> --
> May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
> posting.http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
>
> 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound


>If Brake had come up with the same idea then you'd be >all for it

I'm all for it, but I too suspect the ABD's motives

Sir Jeremy

On 16 May, 15:56, spindrift <newty...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The ABD, like safespeeding, is an irrelevance. Fewer than 3000
> members, linked to extreme-right groups, given to hysterical whining
> about law enforcement.
>
>
snipped guardian bollocks

Plenty of people agree with the ABD and aren't members. Most of the
people who voted for Boris last week aren't members of the
Conservative Party.

BTW stay clear of Lords tomorrow Spindrift. If I spot you I'll stick
my umbrella in your spokes

Just zis Guy, you know?

On Fri, 16 May 2008 08:28:45 -0700 (PDT), Sir Jeremy
<pete.aron@virgin.net> said in
<64a5a635-85fa-4853-b6d2-5cce006937b1@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>:

>Plenty of people agree with the ABD and aren't members.

And "the lurkers support you by email".

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Just zis Guy, you know?

On Fri, 16 May 2008 08:21:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Jeremy
<pete.aron@virgin.net> said in
<605166f1-50ec-4a8a-a360-e99532abbded@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>:

>If Brake had come up with the same idea then you'd be all for it

Actually, no, I don't go a bundle on Brake, and I am all for it
anyway. I am a big fan of VSLs, they work really well on the M25 and
should be implemented round Birmingham and Manchester ASAP.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound